Friends' anti-gun FB comments...

[The Freethinker]

Friend 1: total sheeple, clueless about the stuff that RPF regulars know and study.

Another senseless killing ..... 20 people including 10 children are dead ..... Gun control has got to become a serious issue in this country.

I told him, "gun control is already a serious issue."

A few minutes later, he wrote, As it's just not possible to monitor what crazy people do in society, there has to be a better way of making it more difficult for them to purchase guns.

This raised several alarms in my head: statism, infringement of individual rights, federal encroachment upon states' rights.

I told him the following long post:

The problem begins when we determine what "crazy" means. Was the perpetrator "crazy" according to science? Are there statistics proving that the majority of gun-related murders are perpetrated by people who are crazy?

The blunt truth is that amongst criminals, many of them are not what law-abiding people like you or I would define as "typical citizens." Roughly 90% of adult murderers have adult criminal records marked by low IQs and a track record of social problems, and murders tend to be heavily concentrated in urban areas.

Moreover, let's suppose that anti-gun people like Bob Costas had their dream scenario come true: a revocation of Constitutional guarantees to all citizens to bear arms (something that the constitutions of the states of the Union also ratify). Criminals are not simply going to go to the nearest precincts en masse and surrender their firearms, because many of them are illegal to begin with and therefore, they'd be risking incarceration and prosecution on weapons charges.

Other countries show that keeping firearms out of the hands of non-criminal citizens simply emboldens criminals, because whaddya know?.... criminals don't follow laws to begin with, whether it's paying taxes, not buying liquor if you're underage, or not buying guns illegally.

And last but not least: Connecticut is already known for having some of the strictest gun ownership laws in the entire country (each state's gun laws are unique - NY, where you live, has even stricter laws; Texas, on the other hand, is "friendlier" towards Second Amendment rights.).

He had no reply. One of his FB friends, who is in the army, liked this post.

Friend 2: Ivy League-educated doctor.

Can we actually talk about real gun legislation now? Is that OK, Washington?

I did not reply - but wondered whether she knows that each state has its own gun laws, distinct from other states, with the legal framework to choose how gun legislated is determined and implemented independently of the federal government.

[James Madison]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-campaign.html

[dannno]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-campaign.html

168 > 18

[James Madison]

\

168 > 18

Ah, but you forget.

18 Americans >>>>>>>>>>168 Brown Mooslims

[ninepointfive]

the drug war stopped drugs too, didn't it. success!

be snarky like that

[Luciconsort]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-campaign.html

wow.... I pulled up this same article to post on FB. I sat and read it and stared at the picture, but I didn't post it. Frankly because I didn't want to waste my entire friday evening batting away tired ass talking points and useless govt stats from people whose opinions don't really matter to me to begin with. Then I decided to delete my FB altogether.... cause it's like high school all over again, I can't stand the sight of 90% of my "friends" there. But then miraculously someone posted a pic of a dancing cat and I lol'd and decided against it.

[ninepointfive]

wow.... I pulled up this same article to post on FB. I sat and read it and stared at the picture, but I didn't post it. Frankly because I didn't want to waste my entire friday evening batting away tired ass talking points and useless govt stats from people whose opinions don't really matter to me to begin with. Then I decided to delete my FB altogether.... cause it's like high school all over again, I can't stand the sight of 90% of my "friends" there. But then miraculously someone posted a pic of a dancing cat and I lol'd and decided against it.

use this - your life will be better

http://www.facebook.com/help/224562897555674

[Luciconsort]

use this - your life will be better

http://www.facebook.com/help/224562897555674

Thanx for the info. I've decided to just delete anyone who's not a "Libery" friend, or at least liberty leaning, as I use FB for a ton of RP, C4L and Local Liberty groups. I'm actually looking forward to answering anyone who asks for a Explanation of Deletion. Think I'll just type up a statement and copy and paste. I have saved the link though.

[Jingles]

I've honestly never experienced friends that are pro-gun control. I have some generic liberal friends that always oppose gun control, and I know a few marxist types that oppose it as well. I've never really experienced someone that wants to restrict gun ownership in my personal experience.

[bunklocoempire]

What do the OP's friends got against teachers and students? Sheesh.

Yay, let's disarm some more victims.

By all that "logic" shouldn't we "control" war machines and help end all war? How about "controlling" words to help end illiteracy?

Thanks for trying Freethinker and please keep it up, somebody will learn something.

[heavenlyboy34]

Yeah, an old college friend of mine has being doing anti-gun FB rants lately too. She's impervious to logic. Even cited the propaganda flick "Bowling For Columbine" as a source. I found quickly that the anti-gun crowd is ALL emotion and no facts.

[TheTexan]

I found quickly that the anti-gun crowd is ALL emotion and no facts.

I find that it very often stems from a fear of the unknown. They don't even know how a gun works. They think if you drop a handgun or accidentally knock a holstered weapon the wrong way it could discharge and hurt somebody.

I generally have very little faith in the people of this country, but I do believe if we could just get these people to a shooting range, it would solve many of these irrational fears...

[Luciconsort]

I find that it very often stems from a fear of the unknown. They don't even know how a gun works. They think if you drop a handgun or accidentally knock a holstered weapon the wrong way it could discharge and hurt somebody.

I generally have very little faith in the people of this country, but I do believe if we could just get these people to a shooting range, it would solve many of these irrational fears...

very true.... i only met a very few people that had bad things to say about guns after a trip to the range. it's just so much fun.

[heavenlyboy34]

I find that it very often stems from a fear of the unknown. They don't even know how a gun works. They think if you drop a handgun or accidentally knock a holstered weapon the wrong way it could discharge and hurt somebody.

I generally have very little faith in the people of this country, but I do believe if we could just get these people to a shooting range, it would solve many of these irrational fears...

That'd be nice.

[Pericles]

One small school district in TX has a policy of having armed teachers: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,404721,00.html

[The Freethinker]

I generally have very little faith in the people of this country, but I do believe if we could just get these people to a shooting range, it would solve many of these irrational fears...

I had not thought of this, but this is a very good point.

A few months ago I took advantage of a discounted deal that a local gun club offered. I am already a 2nd Amendment citizen, but wanted to try out other firearms. And this deal enabled me to do so. Pistols and semiautos, as well as single-shot rifles. Low-caliber ammo. I finally tried out a .22-caliber rifle and had the pleasure of trying a 1911 semiauto.

Before we actually handled the firearms, we were instructed on gun safety basics and how firearms work. It was a valuable lesson for me as I reinforced my basic grasp of firearms. And we were all asked to state why we were there. One young woman said she wanted to "overcome" her "fear of guns."

She may never handle guns again, but now that she is no longer totally unfamiliar with firearms, at least she knows that properly handled, firearms aren't volatile bombs that may explode without warning.

Sadly many people think that firearms are unpredictable booby traps which can only be correctly used by uniformed personnel - soldiers and police. And I'm no hater of courageous folks who serve our country - but I do know that there are many badge-wearing bullies and thugs amongst these. And the recent shootout in New York City, where NYPD officers' bullets mostly missed the gunman and wounded several innocent bystanders, should serve as a reminder that perhaps not all badge-wearers are sharpshooters.

[AgentOrange]

I am so glad to read some rational thought here. The Connecticut murderer did not obtain his guns legally. Nor would he have been legally able to obtain a gun, even if he wanted to. I just do not fathom how so many people think more laws will fix the problem. My patient is very tried with all the ignorant comments on Facebook. I try to keep in mind that these people really have the same values as me, we all want to see mass murder & school shootings stopped. But how can they not understand their proposed "solutions" will only increased the problem?

[Tod]

A guy I was in school with, a very brainy cookie (all advanced classes, special tutoring, speaks multiple languages fluently, etc) now living in NYC wrote this:

Honestly, I know this is America and people are not (for the most part) politically active. But in any other country worth its salt, there would be a massive protest march to the capitol.

We have come very far (re-electing a thoughtful, mature, non-pandering, non-cynical leader as president; decriminalizing mj, widening the acceptance of ss unions), but still have far to go... What does it take to get people off their arses and into the streets?

And another guy I was in school with, an average student with an artistic bent:

since we're already talking about it - GUN CONTROL does not mean you won't be able to own a gun. Making it more sensible with background checks, better liscensing, or limiting certain weapons could possibly stop many of these people. for goodness sakes, I don hear the NRA people complaining about trainng and licensing to drive, or controlling some medications, licensing pharmacists, the list is endless. Better gun control will not stop most people from owning their guns, but could help save a life or two. Bad people will always do bad things. Let's make it just a little more difficult, and maybe prevent some of these teribe acts.

An internet acquaintance who shares a hobby, but is a rabid anti-Republican leftist:

"50 Shots fired in California mall"
"Okla. student arrested in alleged school attack plot"
"Gunman killed, 3 wounded in hospital shooting"

Tell me again how guns are the work of Jesus and thus the Republican party and the NRA.

Logic 101 fails a lot of people these days who believe more guns will end gun violence.

I look at NRA stickers on cars like signs I should give them extra room because they are obviously too stupid to be driving unsupervised on public roads.
- 67% of murders in this country are committed by guns.
- 22 innocent people are killed for every bad guy killed in justifiable homicide.
- Our gun murder rate is 14,800% higher than England's.

[James Madison]

The US has a high gun murder rate because it includes all deaths by firearm, including suicides, a percentage of whom are returning from their 4th and 5th tours in the Middle East (thanks, Barry). The other half are mostly due to gang violence because we can't seem to understand that prohibition doesn't work. And let's not forget all those deaths from Fast and Furious.

[AgentOrange]

Sigh, coming back to this thread for its rationality. I know I shouldn't waste my time arguing with the anti-gun fanatics, as they are impervious to any logic whatsoever....but its hard to resist, when as a poster noted above their arguments are totally emotional and have no logic in them whatsoever.

[seraphson]

wow.... I pulled up this same article to post on FB. I sat and read it and stared at the picture, but I didn't post it. Frankly because I didn't want to waste my entire Friday evening batting away tired ass talking points and useless govt stats from people whose opinions don't really matter to me to begin with. Then I decided to delete my FB altogether.... cause it's like high school all over again, I can't stand the sight of 90% of my "friends" there. But then miraculously someone posted a pic of a dancing cat and I lol'd and decided against it.

Pretty much exactly how I felt about FB and since I already had the Facebook beta (myspace) when I was younger I already knew what it was all about. Unfortunately my girlfriend has one and she has quite a few friends that say (exercising tactful respect here) very unintelligent remarks. Even more unfortunate she has a FB friend that's actually one of my best friends and he happened to drop a flat out "ban guns" statement. Some serious rep loss there but thankfully someone threw a counter argument and the reply was substantially better than "ban guns". I guess the moral of the story of all of this is to actually think, use logical deduction, and then post if you feel you have something logically concise to say; not a knee jerk reaction: 1) Guy kills kids with gun 2) Ban guns is good idea. 3) Post on FB that banning guns is a good idea.

But another example from one of her friends. I don't have the words verbatim but it was along the lines of "Now let me guess how many people thought that if the teachers were armed that everything would have been better. The teachers are there to teach not to carry guns to protect kids". Again, something very similar but not verbatim. Now, let's actually think for say, I don't know, hell, 30 seconds longer and revel at the marvel of logic vs knee jerk word spewing button pressing. Now, we have scenario A and scenario B. Scenario A is as the situation was when the events took place. Scenario B is exactly as the situation was with the exception of, let's say only an 1/8th of the teachers exercising their Second Amendment. Now, since we're this far let's up the anti and make this personal to really make you think hard. How so? Now both situation A and B take place as previously stated but now your kid is at the school. Logic/Question time:

Would you prefer situation A where no teacher exercised their Second Amendment Right and your kid was there or would you prefer situation B where an eighth of the teachers exercised their Second Amendment Rights with your kid there? The firearm possessed by the few teacher's offers *SOME* statistically higher chance that they would be able to defend against an assailant vs the ABSOLUTE ZERO chance given in scenario A.

So. What's it going to be? It's your kid there. Would you pick A or B?
Now, just to make it clear let's give the benefit of the doubt to the naysayer and double up the anti and say only 1/16th of the teachers are armed. Statistically we're closer to zero but let's say it now gives your kids a 0.1% of making it out of that school on December 14th 2012.

Again, A or B? 0% vs 0.1%?

Now we can see the stupidity of such a remark. I really wonder if people even think anymore.

[presence]

criminals don't follow laws to begin with, whether it's paying taxes, not buying liquor if you're underage, or not buying guns illegally.

awful knowledgeable aren't we?

[No Free Beer]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-campaign.html

Link isn't working for me...

[No Free Beer]

Nevermind!

The Telegraph link finally opened for me.

To James Madison...thank you for the link: