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Thread: Yes, your "smart meter" will spy on you.

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by whoisjohngalt View Post
    You don't have to. It's a voluntary exchange.
    Try running your own power lines in your neighborhood and see what happens.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst



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  3. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Try running your own power lines in your neighborhood and see what happens.
    Nothing would happen. Of course, its a completely imaginary scenario. You would have to have millions upon millions of dollars for the construction and have to get easements for every single piece of land your lines would cross. It's not worth discussing.

    Way to take something completely out of context, as the voluntary exchange comment was about a customer giving information to the REP to have their credit run. Neither the customer or REP has anything to do with the lines.

  4. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Every jamoke that comes down the pike, looking to fold, spindle and mutilate my life into some database and put me under surveillance, from doctors to banksters to employers to the everfucking government tells me the same thing, "It's private, there are protections in place, relax, you're being paranoid".

    And lo and behold months or years later, we find out that is not the case, we've been under intense surveillance all along, and it's too late to do anything about it.


    CRS Report for Congress
    Prepared for Members and Committees of Congress
    Smart Meter Data: Privacy and Cybersecurity


    http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R42338.pdf

    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 03-26-2014 at 01:04 AM.

  5. #64
    AF, I just got a really disturbing message when I clicked on this link you posted: https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R42338.pdf
    Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.

    Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine

    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Above all I think everyone needs to understand that neither the Bundys nor Finicum were militia or had prior military training. They were, first and foremost, Ranchers who had about all the shit they could take.
    Quote Originally Posted by HOLLYWOOD View Post
    If anything, this situation has proved the government is nothing but a dictatorship backed by deadly force... no different than the dictatorships in the banana republics, just more polished and cleverly propagandized.
    "I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."

    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    In a free society there will be bigotry, and racism, and sexism and religious disputes and, and, and.......
    I don't want to live in a cookie cutter, federally mandated society.
    Give me messy freedom every time!



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  7. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Deborah K View Post
    AF, I just got a really disturbing message when I clicked on this link you posted: https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R42338.pdf
    So, what was the message, Deborah K? Jiminy crickets, woman. The suspense is killing me. Makes me want to clickit.

  8. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Deborah K View Post
    AF, I just got a really disturbing message when I clicked on this link you posted: https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R42338.pdf
    That's really not as disturbing as you think. Usually it just means that someone has chosen not to pay or cannot pay to maintain certificates verifying their identity. Certificate Authorities are more often than not a bureaucratic hassle. It is only a well trafficked site prone to hacking and spoofing that legitimately needs an up to date certificate authority, and CA's cost money. Sometimes lots of money. So of the org you are accessing is on a shoe-string and trying to do it all themselves, do not be surprised to find expired CA's on their domains.

    If you are not 100% certain about the source, then just be extra careful, disable stuff like flash maye Java, and certainly system calls like ActiveX. Do not download or install anything from their site. If you don't want to be security conscious on that level, then avoid sites with expired CA's.

  9. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    So, what was the message, Deborah K? Jiminy crickets, woman. The suspense is killing me. Makes me want to clickit.
    It's just an expired certificate. I just blew past the warning and loaded the pdf anyway.

    Mind you, I chide users all the time for blowing past warnings without knowing what they are, but I know what an expired certificate is. All it really means is you are accessing via HTTP instead of HTTPS.

    Check it out, if you use http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R42338.pdf instead of https, they you don't get the warning at all.

    If you aren't passing along passwords, logins, credit card numbers and such, then don't worry about it.

  10. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    That's really not as disturbing as you think. Usually it just means that someone has chosen not to pay or cannot pay to maintain certificates verifying their identity. Certificate Authorities are more often than not a bureaucratic hassle. It is only a well trafficked site prone to hacking and spoofing that legitimately needs an up to date certificate authority, and CA's cost money. Sometimes lots of money. So of the org you are accessing is on a shoe-string and trying to do it all themselves, do not be surprised to find expired CA's on their domains.

    If you are not 100% certain about the source, then just be extra careful, disable stuff like flash maye Java, and certainly system calls like ActiveX. Do not download or install anything from their site. If you don't want to be security conscious on that level, then avoid sites with expired CA's.


    It scareded meee......
    Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.

    Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine

    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Above all I think everyone needs to understand that neither the Bundys nor Finicum were militia or had prior military training. They were, first and foremost, Ranchers who had about all the shit they could take.
    Quote Originally Posted by HOLLYWOOD View Post
    If anything, this situation has proved the government is nothing but a dictatorship backed by deadly force... no different than the dictatorships in the banana republics, just more polished and cleverly propagandized.
    "I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."

    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    In a free society there will be bigotry, and racism, and sexism and religious disputes and, and, and.......
    I don't want to live in a cookie cutter, federally mandated society.
    Give me messy freedom every time!

  11. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    It's just an expired certificate. I just blew past the warning and loaded the pdf anyway.

    Mind you, I chide users all the time for blowing past warnings without knowing what they are, but I know what an expired certificate is. All it really means is you are accessing via HTTP instead of HTTPS.

    Check it out, if you use http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R42338.pdf instead of https, they you don't get the warning at all.

    If you aren't passing along passwords, logins, credit card numbers and such, then don't worry about it.
    Oh. Well, thanks. I didn't download it anyhow just because I have a pretty good idea of how the smart meter technology functions.

    On a side note, is there a difference between an expired certificate and an unknown certificate?

  12. #70
    Fixee Linkee

    Thanks Gunny!

  13. #71
    I just had a weird power outage.

    The first thing I noticed was a florescent ceiling light half way working. I figured a bulb was out. I went to use the microwave and the light was dim and wasn't getting enough power to fire up.

    I got out a volt meter and that circuit showed about 70 volts. The other kitchen circuits showed 122 volts. Then while I was gearing up to rewire the apartment all of the power went out.

    I checked the neighbors and theirs was out too.

    Called the landlord and they said it was with PG&E.

    A short while later the power came back on and the circuit was back up to 110 and working.

    A while back the landlord came in and installed new receptacles. I'm wondering if PG&E can now brown out individual circuits. I did some Google Foo and came up with nothing. Well nothing but a lot of people freaking out about smart meters. Nothing though on individual circuits.

    Freaky.

  14. #72
    Might have a GFC protector getting ready to go out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carson View Post
    I just had a weird power outage.

    The first thing I noticed was a florescent ceiling light half way working. I figured a bulb was out. I went to use the microwave and the light was dim and wasn't getting enough power to fire up.

    I got out a volt meter and that circuit showed about 70 volts. The other kitchen circuits showed 122 volts. Then while I was gearing up to rewire the apartment all of the power went out.

    I checked the neighbors and theirs was out too.

    Called the landlord and they said it was with PG&E.

    A short while later the power came back on and the circuit was back up to 110 and working.

    A while back the landlord came in and installed new receptacles. I'm wondering if PG&E can now brown out individual circuits. I did some Google Foo and came up with nothing. Well nothing but a lot of people freaking out about smart meters. Nothing though on individual circuits.

    Freaky.



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  16. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Carson View Post
    I'm wondering if PG&E can now brown out individual circuits.
    Absolutely not.

    Their control ends at their meter, the property owner is responsible for all wiring and devices down line of their meter.

  17. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Might have a GFC protector getting ready to go out.
    I went ahead and tried resetting one of the outlets on the circuit that was acting funny. It has one of those Ground Fault Protection buttons like they use now near sinks.

    Anyway like I said the light and outlets started working after PG&E brought the power back up. Still I suppose it should be looked at.

  18. #75
    I'm wondering if PG&E can now brown out individual circuits.
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    Absolutely not.

    Their control ends at their meter, the property owner is responsible for all wiring and devices down line of their meter.
    I would think so,,,but then it is only a matter of time till they can.

  19. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post


    CRS Report for Congress
    Prepared for Members and Committees of Congress
    Smart Meter Data: Privacy and Cybersecurity


    http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R42338.pdf

    I know someone who worked on a similar study; there is a bigger issue with these meters- one of their selling points is that you can go online to see your usage, but (depending on who/where you are dealing with) the sites that host the data can be wide open, so anyone else can, too. Someone could study a whole neighborhood over time and find the best time to hit.

  20. #77

    A possible way to prevent or reverse the installation of smart meters?

    I thought this was innaresting...

    The Power of Liability

    According to Beaulieu, social justice can be obtained by exercising the power within the body of rules and principles codified in modern commerce, which is a descendant of what's known as "Law Merchant." This can offer a highly effective lawful strategy to prevent and reverse the installation of a smart meter in your home and community.
    It involves holding corporate executives and government agents financially accountable for their decisions. Cal Washington, co-founder of the InPower Movement, is an "empowerment advocate" who has spent several years fighting for justice for people who have been abused by corruption within the justice system.
    Is it possible to hold corporate individuals accountable for their actions? Yes, it is, "and this has the potential to change everything," del Sol Beaulieu notes, within his Episode 1. "The next 40 minutes is an overview of how this works." Washington summarizes the Notice of Liability action he's developed, which del Sol Beaulieu is sharing with the world through their film and website, as follows:
    "It's basically a counter-offer [to the] contract that is being implemented to put a device on everybody's house. They've got us into a tacit agreement. This [Notice of Liability document] clarifies and expresses the counter-offer in such a way that those who don't want the meter can say 'I don't want a meter,' and if [the power company] does put a meter on the house it's going to cost [them] X amount of dollars per day … in order for you to carry out this contract."
    In other words, you are currently in a contract with your power company. By changing your analog meter to a smart meter, they are changing the contract and you have to agree to this change in terms. However, codified in commerce there's something known as tacit agreement — an agreement that is implied or understood without being directly expressed. Unless you object, you have tacitly agreed to this change in terms. As noted by Washington, "If you don't say no, you've said yes."
    By understanding that the installation of smart meters is a commercial contract issued to you by your utility company, you level the playing field. All you're doing is entering into a contract negotiation. "All the tricks they use against you, we use against them," Washington says.
    Notice of Liability

    According to Washington, anyone can issue a Notice of Liability at any time, whether you still have an analog meter or have already received a smart meter and/or have tacitly agreed to the new meter. The "Notice of Liability" generally applies worldwide, as it is based on the system of commerce that governs corporate commerce everywhere. This is a system that virtually none of the general public is aware of, "and now you can actually use it," Washington says. "You're now playing the proper game in the proper court."
    Importantly, the Notice of Liability lays accountability at the feet of an individual. Corporate employees and agents can no longer hide behind their corporate post where they have no personal accountability. This includes government employees as well, because the U.S. government is actually run as and functions as a corporation. As noted in the film, the U.S. code defines the United States as a federal corporation, and Canada is listed as a company located in Washington D.C. on the U.S. securities and exchange.
    Understanding Corporate Jurisdiction

    In the film, Washington explains a key misunderstanding relating to jurisdiction. To explain the crux of the problem, he offers the following analogy: You're hired as an employee in the auto department at Walmart. When hired, you agree to a basic contract that stipulates that you will work a certain number of hours for a certain pay. One day, your manager asks you to come in to work at 2 a.m. — a time when the store is closed.
    While the auto department manager has jurisdiction over you, he's under the jurisdiction of the store manager. Hence, you can file a complaint with the store manager, notifying her that what you're being asked to do goes against company policy.
    Walmart, in turn, has to obey the rules of the city in which it is located. In this example, the store is in Detroit, and must therefore follow employment rules and regulations of the city. Detroit, in turn, is under the jurisdiction of Michigan, and all businesses in Detroit must obey state laws. Next you have the United States, and this is what most people don't know — the United States is functioning as a corporation UNDER the jurisdiction of The United States of America, the country. While they sound the same, they are not identical.
    Courts operate under the corporation of the United States. In other words, according to Washington, the court system can be likened to a corporation within a corporation. Importantly, Americans believe they're under the jurisdiction of the country called the United States of America, but in reality, you're operating your day-to-day life under the jurisdiction of a corporation called the United States (or U.S.), and you've tacitly agreed to this, whether you realize it or not.
    Lastly, the corporate United States is under the jurisdiction of Law Merchant, which governs commercial law, which in turn is under the jurisdiction of Common Law — which is where you find the Constitution of the United States of America (the republic). Both the United States of America and Canada were founded on the Common Law — the highest laws of the land — and still operate under their jurisdiction, "but you have to know how to invoke them," Washington says.
    There will no doubt be some who are resistant to what Washington and InPower are revealing. But I find it highly interesting that even before addressing the smart meter problem, he produces evidence of an extraordinary long list of people in high-level positions resigning from office, shortly after he sent them certain documentation.
    Invocation of Personal Liability Is a Powerful Tool

    The above example illustrates corporate jurisdiction. Even if a company allows their employees to work around the clock, they cannot force you to do so if it violates the laws of the city, state or the corporation of the U.S. In this case, the notice of liability action takes advantage of the fact that the corporation of the U.S. is under the jurisdiction of merchant and common law. Hence, by invoking these laws you supersede all others.
    How does this make government officials personally liable, though? Government officials swear an oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States of America. Their oath is a contract. So, if they do not honor your constitutional rights, then they are not protected by their position within the corporation of the United States — they are personally liable because they've overstepped their role, just like the Walmart auto department manager did in the hypothetical illustration.
    He did not have jurisdiction to tell you to clock in for work at 2 a.m., and a government official does not have the authority or jurisdiction to negate or violate the Constitution, merchant or common law. The only way they can practically get away with it is by your tacit agreement — you must actually waive your rights. The notice of liability that Washington created explicitly invokes your rights.
    Phase 1 Results

    Phase 1 of the InPower project involved three "seed" groups with a total of 200 participants who sent out liability notices. Similar to Washington's previous experiences, a number of officials who received liability notices resigned from their posts. del Sol Beaulieu clarifies that, "while there's no saying for certain what factors are involved in each resignation," respondents are indeed resigning.
    For example, on January 30, 2015, Brett Hodson, CEO of Corix Group, which installs smart meters, received more than 100 notices from residents in Kelowna, BC, Canada. On February 4, he received a separate Notice of Default from Washington. Hodson announced his resignation that same day.
    Kelowna was one of the three seed groups. Groups in Seattle and Detroit also launched Notice of Liability actions. In Seattle, after receiving 21 Notices of Liability, three of the nine City Council members announced they would not seek reelection, including one who resigned before the end of her term.
    "In Detroit, it is all-out war," del Sol Beaulieu says. "The utility DTE has cut electricity to several homeowners who have refused smart meters." However, after receiving 21 default notices (a later stage of the liability action), the Michigan attorney general suddenly began calling for free opt-out. Four of the eight officers in the Michigan Public Service Commission who are being held liable appear to have resigned — though it is yet unconfirmed by the utility.
    Phase 2 Plan of Action and Summary

    While del Sol Beaulieu states the focus of Phase 1 was to prove that the concept works, Phase 2 is a call to mass action across North America and Canada, with the goal of stopping the smart meter agenda completely and reversing back to safe, noninvasive technology. In summary, the Notice of Liability is part of a contractual negotiation process between you and your utility company. A contract has four basic components:
    1. An offer. In this case, your utility may mail you a notice or post a notice on its website, telling you they are upgrading your meter. Unless you say no, you're saying yes (tacit acceptance)
    2. Negotiation/meeting of the minds. Whenever you present a contract to someone, they have the right and ability to negotiate the terms. (On a side note, to be valid, a contract must include full disclosure of relevant facts and terms, or else the contract is null and void. One could argue that since utility companies are not providing full disclosures about the potential health effects of the meters, they've voided the contract)
    3. Unconditional acceptance. In this case, by sending out a notice of liability, you are issuing a counter-offer to their initial offer. You're giving conditional acceptance, and to be valid, a contract must be unconditional. This means your conditions must either be met or removed.
    As above, consent to conditions can be gained tacitly. This means if they do not reply to your notice of liability, and ratify the contract by installing the meter, they've accepted your terms — including the financial liability spelled out in your counter-offer.
    For example, your notice may state that "If you put a meter on my house, I shall charge you $10,000 per week." If they install a smart meter, or fail to remove the smart meter, your terms are deemed accepted, and the individual to whom you sent the notice is personally liable for this financial obligation. Within your legal rights are the use of liens, collection agencies and more.
    They cannot fight you in court, because your notice restricts the jurisdiction — it's part of the negotiation process of a personal agreement or contract between you and the individual. It's no different than purchasing their house. Since they put the offer out, they cannot back out of the deal — your notice is part of the negotiation and these are your terms to their contract
    4. Money exchange or performance ratifies the contract. "Performance" is the action of doing something based on the contract, which in this case is the installation or non-removal of the smart meter. By performing the act, the contract — entered into with your conditional acceptance — goes into effect and the individual is financially liable per your counter-offer
    http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...t_rid=46339815

    Don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows

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