Why we should get rid of the debt ceiling

[Bohner]

That said, a distinction needs to be made here, because if I hired a contractor to rebuild my house without calculating the costs, but later calculated those costs and determined that I couldn't afford it, or don't need those renovations, I can halt construction at any time, pay that contractor in full for the work he has done to date, and regroup. Once the contractor is paid for the work already done, screw the contractor, as he is out nothing except his future expectations, and is now free to put his productive skills to work elsewhere. That may leave me with a house in shambles, but at least it will stop the hemorrhaging, and give me time to get real about what I want done versus what I can really afford.

Sort of a bad distinction. If you vote for the spending and vote against the debt ceiling, you aren't voting to halt construction. You've voted for construction to continue, you are just voting to not pay for that construction when it comes time for that construction worker to ask for his check.

If you want to do what is happening in your analogy: A bill would need to pass a new spending bill clearly stating your intentions.

And I agree with all the stuff about the fed... Preaching to the choir on that one

[Jordan]

The debt ceiling really isn't as major of an issue that some may believe. In fact, the concept of a debt ceiling is pretty stupid. You want to lower the debt, vote for spending cuts and against spending increases.

When you have retarded teabagger congressmen who vote for spending increases and government expansion and then votes against the debt ceiling (that essentially pays for that increased spending and government expansion they voted for in the first place) in order to pander to their idiot base who don't even know what the debt ceiling is or does, you are just asking for trouble.

Yeah, I agree with you. Creates an issue out of a nonissue and diverts from the real problem.

[Steven Douglas]

Sort of a bad distinction. If you vote for the spending and vote against the debt ceiling, you aren't voting to halt construction. You've voted for construction to continue, you are just voting to not pay for that construction when it comes time for that construction worker to ask for his check.

Alright, let me agree with you there, and put it this way.

Daddy and Mommy are out competing with independent warfare/welfare shopping sprees that have overextended the family budget, far, far beyond its means. Neither cares, because when the bills come due, they just call all the creditors, as they have always done, and inform them that they are going to be forced to write down some of that debt (going to pay for it with inflated currency). The creditors (read=everyone) don't really have a choice, and are forced to go along with it--while continuing to extend more credit.

Enter Angry Teaparty Daddy, Mommy's first husband, who used to manage the bills, and has subsidized the charade all along with alimony payments that always increase year to year. He takes Mommy and Daddy to court, and puts a hold on their checking accounts. No creditors are affected yet, but they will be if Mommy and Daddy are not allowed to even pay the bills that are about to come due.

Daddy's pissed, but Mommy is LIVID. Both insist that they want to compromise. Daddy must continue buying, but promises to sell off one of his used pistols next year. Meanwhile, Mommy is willing to compromise as well. She will make do with not quite so many of next year's closet full of shoes. Both are incensed now that Angry Teaparty Daddy is being completely unreasonable. Think of the creditors! He is actually willing to let creditors, and everyone they owe go unpaid, while wreaking havoc on that Very Necessary Line of Credit which must continuously expand, if but to keep pace with all the damage it's doing!

Personally, I'd like to see a full scale bankruptcy. Total dissolution, not reorganization, with all the credit cards snipped once and for all. For the sake of the grandchildren, if not the children.

[Bohner]

Personally, I'd like to see a full scale bankruptcy. Total dissolution, not reorganization, with all the credit cards snipped once and for all. For the sake of the grandchildren, if not the children.

That's fine if you want that but at least you seem to understand what a debt ceiling is. And the only purpose it can really serve is to do exactly what you just wrote... Bankrupt the economy.

There are some who are in favor of having one and oppose raising it simply because of the name, but they don't really know what it is. I'm all for cutting spending and balancing budgets. But unless you have any kind of interest in intentionally bankrupting the economy, the debt ceiling isn't really necessary.

[Steven Douglas]

That's fine if you want that but at least you seem to understand what a debt ceiling is. And the only purpose it can really serve is to do exactly what you just wrote... Bankrupt the economy.

There are some who are in favor of having one and oppose raising it simply because of the name, but they don't really know what it is. I'm all for cutting spending and balancing budgets. But unless you have any kind of interest in intentionally bankrupting the economy, the debt ceiling isn't really necessary.

We're on the same page, I think. I would only add that I don't think bankrupting the economy at this point is a question of intent, or even a whether-or-not. Only when, and how. I think it's an inevitability by design, with or with a debt ceiling. I'm not going to pretend that I believe it can be managed and put off forever, let alone with some good effect, because I don't. To me it's like a growing tumor that's being accepted as reality but being managed (including all the attendant pain). Complex contraptions and systems are arising that exist ONLY because of that tumor, and are all-about-that-tumor, which we think of as "life", and only because it contains living cells--forget that it's cancerous, destructive, painful, and most of all growing at a malignant pace. It will eventually to run its course, and it will eventually die. Parasites have no thought about the death of their hosts, even if it would result in their own death. Since I believe that, I have to ask, do I want it removed over 30, 40, or 50 years using thin rusty wire, if I had that option, or do I want it to be removed post haste, so that the economy can reorganize and fill in all voids with something of real value?

It all boils down to this, in my mind: If we could breed clones of ourselves as proxies for transferring all our pain, as a species we would do it, and screw the clones and their feelings, they're not the all-important us. I can't do that. Every generation before us was presented with pain as the way to avoid passing their problems onto future generations. But we are a pleasure-maximizing, pain-avoiding species. Despite past choices to transfer the bulk of the pain to future generations, the real-time pain has gotten gradually worse over time. Well, I AM A PAST GENERATION to some future generation, and I would rather it all happen on my watch, not theirs.

[jclay2]

The fact that mainstream republicans and Democrats are trying their best to remove the debt ceiling permanently should tell you that you are on the wrong side of this issue. Heaven forbid the country gets reminded every year or two that it can't survive without borrowing a trillion dollars + per year. They would much rather have it fly under the radar than have the populace somewhat aware of the runaway spending and debt.

[cubical]

Its not like there is a ceiling anyways. Who cares.

[KingNothing]

If the debt ceiling actually mattered, getting rid of it would be a bad thing.

[juleswin]

True... But voting for spending increases and against debt ceiling increases (like many of these idiot teabagger politicians have done), is like voting to hire a contractor to renovate your house and voting against paying him when he's already started ripping your toilet and sink out of the floor and smashing down your walls.

If you didn't want to pay for it, maybe you shouldn't have voted to hire a contractor to renovate your house in the first place?

The debt ceiling isn't necessarily the problem, it's the spending bills that are.

Well said. Its kinda like voting for budgets that increase spending, creating larger and larger deficits and then refuse to ever raise taxes. Govt revenue in form of taxes pay for your damn spending increases - idiots

+rep

[oyarde]

I feel the mention of getting rid of debt limit is treasonous to the ignorant masses .