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  1. #1

    A plead to Danke and others in the know.

    Please advise how to stop paying income taxes without going to jail. Can I work as an employee and keep my employer from withholding the taxes? If congress can vote to de-fund government then I should be able to stop contributing to this wasteful spending that I do not support. Please advise in a step by step manner and educate me and others.
    Thanks!



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  3. #2
    I gave up a long time ago trying to educate. The responses are always typical fear mongering.

    But there is some truth to that, as the system seems to be getting away from the rule of law and more corrupt everyday.
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  4. #3
    I am sincere and would appreciate some enlightenment. Ever heard the concept that people never change? I am not the same person I was at 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50, years of age or yesterday. Everyone changes. I for one would like to know how to stop paying the thieves! I know you my friend have answers that can help me.

  5. #4
    FlatIron
    Member

    You can defund the government by refusing to use their currency. Use Bitcoin or some other currency.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by FlatIron View Post
    You can defund the government by refusing to use their currency. Use Bitcoin or some other currency.
    +rep

    There's a town called Burkshire in western Massachusetts that uses their own currency. Burkshire Bucks. It's fiat, but at least it's local.
    I am the spoon.

  7. #6
    Not fiat.

    Fiat is by government decree.

    Local paper through voluntary means is simply currency - not fiat simply because it is paper.

    Quote Originally Posted by John F Kennedy III View Post
    +rep

    There's a town called Burkshire in western Massachusetts that uses their own currency. Burkshire Bucks. It's fiat, but at least it's local.
    "Like an army falling, one by one by one" - Linkin Park

  8. #7
    I don't think anyone can say you won't go to jail. People do.
    "Integrity means having to say things that people don't want to hear & especially to say things that the regime doesn't want to hear.” -Ron Paul

    "Bathtub falls and police officers kill more Americans than terrorism, yet we've been asked to sacrifice our most sacred rights for fear of falling victim to it." -Edward Snowden

  9. #8



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  11. #9
    We all still have our rights, as protected by the Constitution. Problem is, by yourself you'll be picked off by government, with the support and aid of your "fellow Americans."

    I advocate divorcing the united states, coming together in a particular geography, configuring an intelligent defense utilizing planning, engineering, and guerrilla tactics to make messing w/ our new country, undesirable.


    I reported myself.
    “One may come to the aid of another being unlawfully arrested, just as he may where one is being assaulted, molested, raped or kidnapped. Thus it is not an offense to liberate one from the unlawful custody of an officer, even though he may have submitted to such custody, without resistance.” (Adams v. State, 121 Ga. 16, 48 S.E. 910).

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Czolgosz View Post
    We all still have our rights, as protected by the Constitution. Problem is, by yourself you'll be picked off by government, with the support and aid of your "fellow Americans."

    I advocate divorcing the united states, coming together in a particular geography, configuring an intelligent defense utilizing planning, engineering, and guerrilla tactics to make messing w/ our new country, undesirable.


    I reported myself.
    You mean like the tactics being employed by our "enemy" in the Middle East that our government has no problem fighting until the end of time?

    I agree with Danke. Legally you don't owe taxes unless you work for the government or take government handouts, but ultimately if Barney Fife wants his money he will come and take it, using violence if necessary, whether or not they are following the letter of the law. Technically the way the income tax laws are written, "Income" means, money derived from tax payer sources. So if your money doesn't come from tax payers like teachers, police officers, politicians do, then you don't make "Income". But like I said, the people who come to collect don't care about laws because the law is what ever they say it is while they have a gun in your face on your porch.

    If your still interested read "Cracking the Code" by Pete Hendrickson. This is the information that Danke talks about and is my beliefs as to the truth extent of the law. People who would tell you otherwise, ignore the supreme courts own ruling (twice) that the 16th Amendment added no new powers of taxation. The Supreme Court is right and our tax code is being applied to the wrong people under the threat of force. When you send in a 1040 your actually perjuring yourself but I'm pretty sure they will never come after you for that offense.
    Dishonest money makes for dishonest people.

    Andrew Napolitano, John Stossel. FOX News Liberty Infiltrators.


    Quote Originally Posted by Inkblots View Post
    Dr. Paul is living rent-free in the minds of the neocons, and for a fiscal conservative, free rent is always a good thing
    NOBP ≠ ABO

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by roho76 View Post
    You mean like the tactics being employed by our "enemy" in the Middle East that our government has no problem fighting until the end of time?
    Yeah, exactly like that.
    “One may come to the aid of another being unlawfully arrested, just as he may where one is being assaulted, molested, raped or kidnapped. Thus it is not an offense to liberate one from the unlawful custody of an officer, even though he may have submitted to such custody, without resistance.” (Adams v. State, 121 Ga. 16, 48 S.E. 910).

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by roho76 View Post
    If your still interested read "Cracking the Code" by Pete Hendrickson.
    PDF: http://losthorizons.com/CtCforFree.pdf

    The book (and latest edition): http://www.losthorizons.com/Cracking_the_Code.htm

    There is also a forum at that website to ask questions, but it is not very active.
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    PDF: http://losthorizons.com/CtCforFree.pdf

    The book (and latest edition): http://www.losthorizons.com/Cracking_the_Code.htm

    There is also a forum at that website to ask questions, but it is not very active.
    And this: http://losthorizons.com/Newsletter.htm
    Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.

    Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine

    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Above all I think everyone needs to understand that neither the Bundys nor Finicum were militia or had prior military training. They were, first and foremost, Ranchers who had about all the shit they could take.
    Quote Originally Posted by HOLLYWOOD View Post
    If anything, this situation has proved the government is nothing but a dictatorship backed by deadly force... no different than the dictatorships in the banana republics, just more polished and cleverly propagandized.
    "I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."

    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    In a free society there will be bigotry, and racism, and sexism and religious disputes and, and, and.......
    I don't want to live in a cookie cutter, federally mandated society.
    Give me messy freedom every time!

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Czolgosz View Post
    We all still have our rights, as protected by the Constitution. Problem is, by yourself you'll be picked off by government, with the support and aid of your "fellow Americans."

    I advocate divorcing the united states, coming together in a particular geography, configuring an intelligent defense utilizing planning, engineering, and guerrilla tactics to make messing w/ our new country, undesirable.


    I reported myself.
    sent in a duplicate report just in case the first gets lost in bureaucracy.
    see something, report something.
    rewritten history with armies of their crooks - invented memories, did burn all the books... Mark Knopfler

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by torchbearer View Post
    sent in a duplicate report just in case the first gets lost in bureaucracy.
    see something, report something.
    “One may come to the aid of another being unlawfully arrested, just as he may where one is being assaulted, molested, raped or kidnapped. Thus it is not an offense to liberate one from the unlawful custody of an officer, even though he may have submitted to such custody, without resistance.” (Adams v. State, 121 Ga. 16, 48 S.E. 910).

  18. #16
    When the economy collapses, followed by an inevitable social collapse, it stands to reason there will be a tax revolt, and the new FREE market will be the black market.

    There is a book called 'Constitutional Income: Do you have any? written by a state legislator named Phil Hart. I highly recommend it.
    Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.

    Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine

    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Above all I think everyone needs to understand that neither the Bundys nor Finicum were militia or had prior military training. They were, first and foremost, Ranchers who had about all the shit they could take.
    Quote Originally Posted by HOLLYWOOD View Post
    If anything, this situation has proved the government is nothing but a dictatorship backed by deadly force... no different than the dictatorships in the banana republics, just more polished and cleverly propagandized.
    "I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."

    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    In a free society there will be bigotry, and racism, and sexism and religious disputes and, and, and.......
    I don't want to live in a cookie cutter, federally mandated society.
    Give me messy freedom every time!



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Deborah K View Post
    When the economy collapses, followed by an inevitable social collapse, it stands to reason there will be a tax revolt, and the new FREE market will be the black market.

    There is a book called 'Constitutional Income: Do you have any? written by a state legislator named Phil Hart. I highly recommend it.
    You'd better hope to hell that social collapse does not come because if it does, chances are better than not that you are going to die. People are wound up crazier than all get-out from the many restrictions put on them There are literally millions of people out there that will go apey in the event of a social collapse and the bloodshed will be vast and cruel. In that event, taxes will no longer be an issue against which to revolt. Your next meal and not being eaten by one of your neighbors will likely be your first concerns.

    Oh the promise of the twenty-first century!
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    You'd better hope to hell that social collapse does not come because if it does, chances are better than not that you are going to die. People are wound up crazier than all get-out from the many restrictions put on them There are literally millions of people out there that will go apey in the event of a social collapse and the bloodshed will be vast and cruel. In that event, taxes will no longer be an issue against which to revolt. Your next meal and not being eaten by one of your neighbors will likely be your first concerns.

    Oh the promise of the twenty-first century!
    What I hope for matters not. All that matters is the handwriting on the wall, and whether or not people intend to keep their heads in the sand. I, and my family and extended families have readied ourselves, along with many in our community for about 4 years now. I've got numerous old threads on what I've done about it.

    I'll say it yet again, get to know your local prepper groups, join the local gun club, and CERT team, get a HAM radio, stock up, raise and grow food, work on alternative currencies, live a healthy lifestyle so you're less likely to get sick. And most importantly, get right with God. Do whatever you can, it's really foolish not to. What have you got to lose?
    Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.

    Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine

    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Above all I think everyone needs to understand that neither the Bundys nor Finicum were militia or had prior military training. They were, first and foremost, Ranchers who had about all the shit they could take.
    Quote Originally Posted by HOLLYWOOD View Post
    If anything, this situation has proved the government is nothing but a dictatorship backed by deadly force... no different than the dictatorships in the banana republics, just more polished and cleverly propagandized.
    "I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."

    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    In a free society there will be bigotry, and racism, and sexism and religious disputes and, and, and.......
    I don't want to live in a cookie cutter, federally mandated society.
    Give me messy freedom every time!

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Deborah K View Post
    What I hope for matters not. All that matters is the handwriting on the wall, and whether or not people intend to keep their heads in the sand. I, and my family and extended families have readied ourselves, along with many in our community for about 4 years now. I've got numerous old threads on what I've done about it.

    I'll say it yet again, get to know your local prepper groups, join the local gun club, and CERT team, get a HAM radio, stock up, raise and grow food, work on alternative currencies, live a healthy lifestyle so you're less likely to get sick. And most importantly, get right with God. Do whatever you can, it's really foolish not to. What have you got to lose?
    No argument there, save your implication that social collapse is inevitable. This is NOT the same as economic collapse or that of government. Social collapse is Lord Of The $#@!ing Flies and woe be unto us if we let it go that far. In that case, if you have any sense about you, you will save at least one bullet for everyone you love because mere survival = mere existence.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    No argument there, save your implication that social collapse is inevitable. This is NOT the same as economic collapse or that of government. Social collapse is Lord Of The $#@!ing Flies and woe be unto us if we let it go that far. In that case, if you have any sense about you, you will save at least one bullet for everyone you love because mere survival = mere existence.
    Osan, please give me some hope then. Give me some examples where social collapse didn't follow economic collapse.
    Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.

    Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine

    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Above all I think everyone needs to understand that neither the Bundys nor Finicum were militia or had prior military training. They were, first and foremost, Ranchers who had about all the shit they could take.
    Quote Originally Posted by HOLLYWOOD View Post
    If anything, this situation has proved the government is nothing but a dictatorship backed by deadly force... no different than the dictatorships in the banana republics, just more polished and cleverly propagandized.
    "I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."

    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    In a free society there will be bigotry, and racism, and sexism and religious disputes and, and, and.......
    I don't want to live in a cookie cutter, federally mandated society.
    Give me messy freedom every time!

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    You'd better hope to hell that social collapse does not come because if it does, chances are better than not that you are going to die. People are wound up crazier than all get-out from the many restrictions put on them There are literally millions of people out there that will go apey in the event of a social collapse and the bloodshed will be vast and cruel. In that event, taxes will no longer be an issue against which to revolt. Your next meal and not being eaten by one of your neighbors will likely be your first concerns.

    Oh the promise of the twenty-first century!
    I agree, and Merry Chistmas to you Osan.

  25. #22
    This is kind of a good question, but the answer may not be what you want to hear.

    The answer is that if you believe that you have a moral right, obligation even, not to pay your taxes, the you should act in that spirit. But you will also have to be prepared to go to jail, because that is likely what will happen.

    The only answer is to have the courage to stand up for what you believe in, no matter the consequences.

    This is the art of civil disobedience/peaceful non-compliance, and in so far as it has ever achieved anything at all, it has been through self sacrifice.

    The real question becomes, where do I get the courage to stand up for what I believe in, no matter the consequences?

    And on that note it's back over to you dude.
    Last edited by dancjm; 12-06-2012 at 01:31 PM.
    For Liberty!

  26. #23
    I do think either social collapse or structural political changes will come with the economic collapse. But it's also likely that in some states these things will be barely felt.

  27. #24
    While there is nothing wrong with refusing to file if you are not required to, educating people on when you are required to file usually brings down the wrath of the weenies.
    Be careful.
    "This here's Miss Bonnie Parker. I'm Clyde Barrow. We rob banks."



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  29. #25
    You can change your deductions to either minimize or possibly end having taxes withheld from your paycheck (unless you are a private contractor I don't think you can do that with the Social Security withholdings) but that does not remove you from having to pay taxes at the end of the year if you owe.

  30. #26
    Osan, I'm not in despair. I've never said that I believe the apocolypse is upon us. I think you may be reading too much into what I wrote. I live my life in the moment, while I learn from the past, and prepare for the future.

    There are many examples of social collapse following an economic collapse, and I think it's foolish for anyone to dismiss it outright. Although I don't have a crystal ball, and can't predict exactly what that means for our country, it probably means martial law, and internment camps for those who get caught up in it. I won't be one of those, because I won't be in any immediate need. My brood will be flying under the radar. I expect that, at first, the gov't will try to step in and restore order. In fact, anyone who wants a job in the Army as an internment camp resettlement specialist, here ya go: http://www.goarmy.com/careers-and-jo...pecialist.html

    And yes, I believe in God the Father, so I know life doesn't end in death. But we are warned in the Bible that we will never know exactly when Christ will return, and so we must be ready for anything at anytime. Preparation has taught me to live more closely, and in union with nature. So, I have no regrets about anything I'm doing. The valuable skills I've learned, I am passing on to my grandchildren.
    Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.

    Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine

    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Above all I think everyone needs to understand that neither the Bundys nor Finicum were militia or had prior military training. They were, first and foremost, Ranchers who had about all the shit they could take.
    Quote Originally Posted by HOLLYWOOD View Post
    If anything, this situation has proved the government is nothing but a dictatorship backed by deadly force... no different than the dictatorships in the banana republics, just more polished and cleverly propagandized.
    "I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."

    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    In a free society there will be bigotry, and racism, and sexism and religious disputes and, and, and.......
    I don't want to live in a cookie cutter, federally mandated society.
    Give me messy freedom every time!

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Deborah K View Post
    There are many examples of social collapse following an economic collapse
    Yes, but your statement was that it was inevitable and I was simply pointing out that it is not. I was also trying to point out that economic collapse and social collapse are not nearly the same things, the latter being of necessity a whole lot more dire than the former.

    and I think it's foolish for anyone to dismiss it outright.
    We agree.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    Yes, but your statement was that it was inevitable and I was simply pointing out that it is not. I was also trying to point out that economic collapse and social collapse are not nearly the same things, the latter being of necessity a whole lot more dire than the former.



    We agree.
    Okay, we'll have to disagree over my use of the word "inevitable". When you have, among other things, the DHS doing "Zombie" drills, and the Army recruiting internment/resettlement specialists, I think it's pretty obvious that the gov't expects social collapse. All I'm trying to get across is that people need to do what they can to prepare for it so that they don't have to suffer needlessly. No one can know for sure the degree of chaos that will ensue after a financial collapse. And, the level of preparedness is subjective. I guess I am probably a homesteader/prepper hybrid. Not a bad thing to be in these times.
    Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.

    Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine

    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Above all I think everyone needs to understand that neither the Bundys nor Finicum were militia or had prior military training. They were, first and foremost, Ranchers who had about all the shit they could take.
    Quote Originally Posted by HOLLYWOOD View Post
    If anything, this situation has proved the government is nothing but a dictatorship backed by deadly force... no different than the dictatorships in the banana republics, just more polished and cleverly propagandized.
    "I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."

    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    In a free society there will be bigotry, and racism, and sexism and religious disputes and, and, and.......
    I don't want to live in a cookie cutter, federally mandated society.
    Give me messy freedom every time!

  33. #29
    How about forming "Free City Projects" Take over cities. Let city go defunct. Form new entity pay little or no property taxes. Previous defunct city defaults on all obligations including pensions. New entity not liable for the incorporated cities debts or obligations. All these cities also decide to pay no state or fed income taxes.
    Last edited by Schifference; 12-06-2012 at 05:26 PM.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    How about forming "Free City Projects" Take over cities. Let city go defunct. Form new entity pay little or property taxes. Preious defunct city defaults on all obligations including pensions. New entity not liable for the incorporated cities debts or obligations. All these cities also decide to pay no state or fed income taxes.
    Yep, City secession. Like.
    “One may come to the aid of another being unlawfully arrested, just as he may where one is being assaulted, molested, raped or kidnapped. Thus it is not an offense to liberate one from the unlawful custody of an officer, even though he may have submitted to such custody, without resistance.” (Adams v. State, 121 Ga. 16, 48 S.E. 910).

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