do you have loved ones on the government dole?

[thequietkid10]

and if so how do you reconcile this fact with your support of Ron Paul.

And by government dole, I don't mean perfectly competent person working for the government or a company that has a lot of government contracts. I mean someone who gets welfare.

My brother now gets SSI, he's very sweet, likes Ron Paul and dreams of having a family one day. But he has Aspergers, could not get his Associates degree after failing biology 3 times, is incredibly naive and has struggled to even hold an industrial cleaning position. He is not entirely incapable of work, he's been successful working in food service at a nursing home, has worked for a while as a amusement park cleaner (including this summer when he also worked packing books) The book packing job he still has through a non profit known as Suburban Adult Services.

When him and I do chores he needs a lot of directions, otherwise he'll stand around or work really slowly. I don't think he's slow on purpose, either he is incapable of focusing or he is a product of being held to a different lower his whole life.

Anyway, I guess my point is that I am conflicted about whether or not we should have government welfare and whether or not my brother needs it.

Thoughts.

[heavenlyboy34]

My sis gets food stamps and lives rent-free at our parents' house. (she is obese too, btw) I find it disgusting because it enables her to sit around working part time and watching TV most of the rest of the day. It's such a wasted life. At the same time, she's always had problems keeping a job. She got fired from a kennel job, FFS. There's nothing stopping her from getting another job and growing up...she just refuses to. The regime is destroying at least one generation.

[thequietkid10]

My sis gets food stamps and lives rent-free at our parents' house. (she is obese too, btw) I find it disgusting because it enables her to sit around working part time and watching TV most of the rest of the day. It's such a wasted life. At the same time, she's always had problems keeping a job. She got fired from a kennel job, FFS. There's nothing stopping her from getting another job and growing up...she just refuses to. The regime is destroying at least one generation.

I'll say this, the vast majority of the people I know on welfare do not have my sympathies.

[Steven Douglas]

A libertarian society with a free market and sound currencies would provide ample jobs and cheap basic needs. I am also a follower of Hayek and believe there is a place for welfare*, and I believe that charities and fraternal organizations could fill the void in the absence of force and outright theft.

*There is no reason why the government cannot have departments and full-fledged programs that are run EXACTLY as charities, right down to the reliance on volunteer contributions, and headlong competition with other charities -- and automatic dissolution when they fail to get the funding they entreat others for. I absolutely love the notion of charities and charitable concerns. But there is NOTHING charitable about taking by force and giving to others. It is theft, no more no less, and insulates people from concern for the rights and concerns of others.

Government "charity" is nothing but one of many lies covering an even bigger foundational lie, because if we had a free market, with currencies that were not deliberately debased, the Very Real But Nonetheless Artificially Inflicted Need for charities would rapidly and dramatically diminish--naturally, as a matter of course.

[KCIndy]

Once, when a discussion of taxes came up, I had a relative state emphatically that he got more back in his refund than he paid in taxes.

A little digging finally uncovered the fact that he and his wife had received an "Earned Income Tax Credit" because their income was so low. (Which is generally what happens when you don't work!! - but I digress.)

I cracked off something like, "Well, I'm glad the cash I had to fork over went to some one I know, at least..."

He said, "It wasn't your cash. It came from the government!"

And he meant it. God help me, he meant it!

[Steven Douglas]

He said, "It wasn't your cash. It came from the government!"

And he meant it. God help me, he meant it!

Yep, once you insulate humans from humans, a lot of them behave like so many sociopathic monsters.

Funny how a guilt trip for not caring comes so easily on the payment-extraction side, but you're not even considered a contributor, let alone the unwilling victim of extrortion, once those wonderful funds are COMPLETELY LAUNDERED, erasing all traces of the blood and identities of those who make them possible, past, present and future.

[heavenlyboy34]

Once, when a discussion of taxes came up, I had a relative state emphatically that he got more back in his refund than he paid in taxes.

A little digging finally uncovered the fact that he and his wife had received an "Earned Income Tax Credit" because their income was so low. (Which is generally what happens when you don't work!! - but I digress.)

I cracked off something like, "Well, I'm glad the cash I had to fork over went to some one I know, at least..."

He said, "It wasn't your cash. It came from the government!"

And he meant it. God help me, he meant it!

Shit like that makes me want to laugh and cry at the same time. I hear this kind of nonsense from my mother (currently drawing "her" soc security "retirement" money) all the time.

[John F Kennedy III]

I'll say this, the vast majority of the people I know on welfare do not have my sympathies.

There a ton of them that do deserve sympathies. Our government has purposely created a situation where an increasing number of people don't have a choice but go on welfare. Many are 20 somethings that made a dumb decision to waste their youth instead of bettering their position in life. But even these people could make a living at something to support themselves if the government wasn't purposely nose diving this plane.

[angelatc]

Shit like that makes me want to laugh and cry at the same time. I hear this kind of nonsense from my mother (currently drawing "her" soc security "retirement" money) all the time.

On the other side of the coin, if you're working and paying taxes into a system that you believe does more harm than good to society, how do you reconcile that with libertarianism?

[Tod]

It seems like very person I've ever met or heard of who seemed to have a bona fide need for charity was someone who had either a medical issue (either themselves or a dependent) or was just not a competent person (really not capable of living independently). That means everyone else I've met or heard of who was receiving charity was receiving it because they simply consiously made decisions that got them where they are, and they didn't care, such as having multiple babies out of wedlock or staying in/repeatedly marrying destructive persons (associating with someone who helped ruin their lives).