Saying No to College

[DamianTV]

---

Companies in the US are less willing to train people- they would prefer to hire those who already have the skills. Perhaps they are also afraid of spending the time to train somebody and having them leave for another job once they aquire the skills. We have lots of people looking for jobs but we also have a lot of jobs looking for skilled people who can't find the ones they need.

Companies want their cake and to eat it too.

Now why would someone want to leave a job for another one unless that job was not rewarding enough to the employee for whatever reason? Maybe its the pay. Maybe its the hours. Maybe its the Benefits. Maybe its just the way the employees are treated by the Company? These companies want Disposable People, then act all $#@!ing suprised when the people dont want to stay at the job.

Companies are also cutting off their noses despite their faces.

They look for qualifications that would only allow them to provide jobs to a progressively narrowing percentage. They want people with experience. But what they really want is people with experience that can only be acquired by people that have worked at that company. Then they say they want to hire for positions from within the company, but only hire people from outside the company. They also do stupid $#@! like refusing to hire Smokers, Fat People, People with Children, and those without specific Degrees or Experience, regardless if those applicants would be a perfect match for those jobs. If your IQ is too high or too low, you are disqualified. If you are the wrong sex, skin color (yes that still happens, just without a paper trail), and not good looking enough. They want people with experience that only they can provide and refuse to provide it, because, after all, that costs money.

Companies are spending too much time on trying to find reasons to disqualify people for employment for self contradicting reasons. They dont want to put people to work. They want to find an excuse of why they wont hire someone so that they can ship their jobs overseas, then act all shocked and shaken when no one is qualified.

[AFPVet]

Companies in the US are less willing to train people- they would prefer to hire those who already have the skills. Perhaps they are also afraid of spending the time to train somebody and having them leave for another job once they acquire the skills. We have lots of people looking for jobs but we also have a lot of jobs looking for skilled people who can't find the ones they need.

This is exactly what's happening to me. I don't have very much experience aside from my military/law enforcement background and it's tough for me to find something in the admin area since I only have a little over a year in HR/admin. Employers don't want to train people, but often times, they have to anyways. So you end up with someone with gobs of experience from company x and none of what they did at company x applies to company y. Still, companies refuse to give people a chance, but depend solely on experience.

[Aeroneous]

The video takes some biased perspectives. The legal market is in shambles, and I have no sympathy for anyone who goes to law school without doing their research ahead of time. The youtube video that this video shows about halfway through with the guy burning his degrees is a perfect example. If he had a Computer Science degree from Arizona State, he should have had NO difficulty finding a job. I'm sorry, but the economy is just not that bad, especially in such an in demand field. People complain about not being able to find a job, but they are never willing to relocate, change the scope of their job search, or put in the REAL effort required. This guy got a law degree from Arizona State, which is a horrible law school in today's market, and has now hit the same scenario that thousands of other law grads have run into. He screwed himself, and so have most of the people who take ridiculous student loan amounts for their degrees.

I just have no sympathy for these people.

All that being said, you posted a very interesting video.

[oyarde]

With the economy that has been happening , and will be happening, I think any kid , now , piling on debt for an education , is , nuts.

[amonasro]

It really depends on the field you're in whether you need the degree or not. Also, the name of the school and its prominence in said field matters A LOT.

And, there are often scholarships so making a blanket statement like "racking up $200,000 in debt" is kind of ridiculous. Media always uses the same example to demonstrate: A misguided lady who went to an overpriced drive-thru university and took out high interest loans to live on and feed her kids for 5 years. Seriously, who does this?

I got half of my undergraduate and most of my graduate degree paid for through talent scholarships. Yeah I have some debt but I'm much happier working in my current career field than as a retail manager somewhere.

Edit: I will say that the Federal Loan program does a good job of dumping thousands of completely unqualified and ill-prepared musicians into the pool that I have to work with on a day-to-day basis.

[Aeroneous]

With the economy that has been happening , and will be happening, I think any kid , now , piling on debt for an education , is , nuts.

But if they don't go, where will they learn how to properly use a comma?

[heavenlyboy34]

But if they don't go, where will they learn how to properly use a comma?

LOL!!!

[Occam's Banana]

But if they don't go, where will they learn how to properly use a comma?

The same place e e cummings went.

[PaulConventionWV]

What if I am not accruing debt by going to college? I have approximately a year of education left to complete, and all I am paying for is my gas (room and board was way too expensive). The trip itself costs quite a bit, but I make about 1100-1300/month even while going to school. I feel like I would be wasting my time if I didn't stick it out and finish, especially considering I'm not losing money over it. Of course, my degree is sort of useless, but some people look for that, and I'm sure the ones who don't won't turn me away because I have one. It's in political science.

I feel like I'm headed toward a career in real estate since I'm already a property manager of a small apartment complex, and that seems like something I really want to do. All I have to do is take a short class in order to be a real estate agent, then I can become a broker after 2 years, AFAIK.

[oyarde]

But if they don't go, where will they learn how to properly use a comma?

I have no idea, I am sure , someone may help.

[heavenlyboy34]

What if I am not accruing debt by going to college? I have approximately a year of education left to complete, and all I am paying for is my gas (room and board was way too expensive). The trip itself costs quite a bit, but I make about 1100-1300/month even while going to school. I feel like I would be wasting my time if I didn't stick it out and finish, especially considering I'm not losing money over it. Of course, my degree is sort of useless, but some people look for that, and I'm sure the ones who don't won't turn me away because I have one. It's in political science.

I feel like I'm headed toward a career in real estate since I'm already a property manager of a small apartment complex, and that seems like something I really want to do. All I have to do is take a short class in order to be a real estate agent, then I can become a broker after 2 years, AFAIK.

If you've got the cash, I see no reason not to do it. LOL @ poli-sci degree, though.

[PaulConventionWV]

If you've got the cash, I see no reason not to do it. LOL @ poli-sci degree, though.

[madengr]

“It’s inspiring that his dropping out basically had no effect, positive or negative, on the work and company and values he could create,” he said of the late Apple co-founder.

Wozniak was the brains behind the Apple I and II. He was not a college dropout, rather a degreed engineer.

[alucard13mmfmj]

Oh sure... nursing school is very competitive. Physical therapy is a good one to get into though.

i've looked into those professions before while i was still in school.

Physical Therapy school requires like 200-500hours of experience and 2-4 letters of recommendation.

Nursing school, depending on which program and degree, requires similar requirements like Physical therapy.

Without hours and letters, you are shoot out of luck.

[TCE]

Paul, I have a Political Science Degree and a second Major in History. My degree isn't worth the paper it is printed on. I didn't go into debt for it, though, but still, all of that wasted time was worth something.

i've looked into those professions before while i was still in school.

Physical Therapy school requires like 200-500hours of experience and 2-4 letters of recommendation.

Nursing school, depending on which program and degree, requires similar requirements like Physical therapy.

Without hours and letters, you are shoot out of luck.

Thread winner! The degree itself is relatively worthless. It is the connections you make with people who can springboard you into a job who matter. The days of going to class, getting a 3.9 GPA and landing a job right after school are over. If you know someone, you'll get a job. If you don't, then you can join me at the movie theater.

[Aeroneous]

i've looked into those professions before while i was still in school.

Physical Therapy school requires like 200-500hours of experience and 2-4 letters of recommendation.

Nursing school, depending on which program and degree, requires similar requirements like Physical therapy.

Without hours and letters, you are shoot out of luck.

Can't speak for physical therapy, but don't most nursing programs require these hours as part of the graduation requirements? Most schools I've seen have worked out deals with hospitals and clinics for their students to acquire these hours. My wife's best friend went to a low-to-mid quality school for two years where she also did clinical hours, and is now a Charge Nurse at age 21 managing 6 other nurses. She didn't get the job based off connections, but rather pure effort.

It's one example, but it's just going along with the common sense of it all. If you pick an in demand degree, accrue minimal debt, and then work hard at finding a job... you'll PROBABLY do fine.

Paul, I have a Political Science Degree and a second Major in History. My degree isn't worth the paper it is printed on. I didn't go into debt for it, though, but still, all of that wasted time was worth something.

Just out of curiosity, did you have a specific career path in mind when you chose those majors? I love History, but opted against the major due to the slightly limited employment options. Even if the degree doesn't necessarily "pay out" for you, it's definitely a personal accomplishment. I have several friends who harbor a lot of disdain for that degree on their wall because it hasn't "helped" them. Don't forget that regardless of what it's done for you, it's a representation of 4+ years of your own hard work.

[alucard13mmfmj]

Can't speak for physical therapy, but don't most nursing programs require these hours as part of the graduation requirements? Most schools I've seen have worked out deals with hospitals and clinics for their students to acquire these hours. My wife's best friend went to a low-to-mid quality school for two years where she also did clinical hours, and is now a Charge Nurse at age 21 managing 6 other nurses. She didn't get the job based off connections, but rather pure effort.

You are right. Those programs do give you some sort of experience in the proper work scenario. That being said, competitors for the same job would have the same level of experience more or less ^^... and would depend on your previous experience or the amount of brown-nosing you do.

But getting into those programs, you need experience and letters (again depending on which program and level).

[TCE]

Just out of curiosity, did you have a specific career path in mind when you chose those majors? I love History, but opted against the major due to the slightly limited employment options. Even if the degree doesn't necessarily "pay out" for you, it's definitely a personal accomplishment. I have several friends who harbor a lot of disdain for that degree on their wall because it hasn't "helped" them. Don't forget that regardless of what it's done for you, it's a representation of 4+ years of your own hard work.

I did. I was planning on being a teacher, but that didn't end up working out. To me, even though I had a relatively high GPA, it felt as if college wasn't that difficult. Students go through classes without even cracking a textbook and they still passed. It's nice to have proof that I accomplished something, but I would give it all back for a steady job.

[AFPVet]

i've looked into those professions before while i was still in school.

Physical Therapy school requires like 200-500hours of experience and 2-4 letters of recommendation.

Nursing school, depending on which program and degree, requires similar requirements like Physical therapy.

Without hours and letters, you are shoot out of luck.

Come to think of it, I believe we had a lot of CNAs at the nursing home that were trying to get into nursing school. Being a nursing assistant would give them some experience in health care and also give them some opportunities to score LOAs from their supervisors.

[juleswin]

If you are inventive enough, you don't even need a high school education. Now, I got my bachelors because I didn't want my GI Bill going to waste. What people have to understand is that unless your degree is in the medical field or something like that, it will not help you get a job. Experience is what gets you the job, and the degree is only icing on the cake which may accelerate promotions.

Medical field, engineering, computer sciences, accounting, law etc. My advice is mostly to avoid the soft sciences and soft arts especially if you dont plan on attending graduate school. My college experience ends in 2 weeks and then I will find out what all those classes mean for my career. You know they now say a BA/BS is the new high school diploma

[AFPVet]

Medical field, engineering, computer sciences, accounting, law etc. My advice is mostly to avoid the soft sciences and soft arts especially if you don't plan on attending graduate school. My college experience ends in 2 weeks and then I will find out what all those classes mean for my career. You know they now say a BA/BS is the new high school diploma

Well, it just depends... as I said before, a degree will not get you a job without some kind of experience. I guess that's the same for even the medical field too as pointed out here. The degree may or may not get you a better position once you get into the company, but one thing is for sure, you need some kind of experience. I could go back into law enforcement or security since I have enough experience there, but most employers that I talked to needed more than two years experience for any kind of HR or admin position—and that was WITH the degree.

I've heard that too about the bachelor's degrees, but it's not entirely accurate. A lot more people are getting two year degrees because they can't afford the four year degrees. Granted, there is education inflation, but a high school diploma is still a HS diploma, and a college degree/certificate is still a degree/certificate.

[Aeroneous]

Medical field, engineering, computer sciences, accounting, law etc. My advice is mostly to avoid the soft sciences and soft arts especially if you dont plan on attending graduate school. My college experience ends in 2 weeks and then I will find out what all those classes mean for my career. You know they now say a BA/BS is the new high school diploma

2 things...
1. Law is just about the riskiest degree you can work toward. That industry is so oversaturated I can't even begin to explain how bad of an idea it is. Just go check out jdunderground.com.
2. Have you started your job search yet? You should have been working on getting at least an internship for several months now.

Granted, there is education inflation, but a high school diploma is still a HS diploma, and a college degree/certificate is still a degree/certificate.

Most of the "good" job listings require a degree to even qualify to apply. People can complain all they want about the situation, but the degree is seen as a necessity by the vast majority of employers. And I'm with you on the GI Bill thing... I'm going to milk that cow for every cent!

[AFPVet]

2 things...
1. Law is just about the riskiest degree you can work toward. That industry is so oversaturated I can't even begin to explain how bad of an idea it is. Just go check out jdunderground.com.
2. Have you started your job search yet? You should have been working on getting at least an internship for several months now.

Most of the "good" job listings require a degree to even qualify to apply. People can complain all they want about the situation, but the degree is seen as a necessity by the vast majority of employers. And I'm with you on the GI Bill thing... I'm going to milk that cow for every cent!

As an IU grad who has been looking for a job for a year now, I can attest to this. If I could've done it all over again, I would've starting looking for volunteer opportunities/internships while I was in my senior year. Employers count volunteer work/internships as experience... definitely put it on your resume if you have some volunteer work that is commensurate with the work you are looking for.

[Anti Federalist]

You know they now say a BA/BS is the new high school diploma

You know, in 30 plus years of working for a living, during which I have mostly made above average income, I have not once had anybody ask for my HS diploma.

Or in my case a GED.

[MelissaWV]

You know, in 30 plus years of working for a living, during which I have mostly made above average income, I have not once had anybody ask for my HS diploma.

Or in my case a GED.

Same. My interviews all revolve around my relevant work experience, why I left my last job, whether I am really bilingual, what I believe I can do for the company, and when I can start.

[alucard13mmfmj]

Medical field, engineering, computer sciences, accounting, law etc. My advice is mostly to avoid the soft sciences and soft arts especially if you dont plan on attending graduate school. My college experience ends in 2 weeks and then I will find out what all those classes mean for my career. You know they now say a BA/BS is the new high school diploma

bingo... to get into those graduate schools you need exp/letters/brownnosing. ;p

my advice is the same as well.

[Aeroneous]

bingo... to get into those graduate schools you need exp/letters/brownnosing. ;p

my advice is the same as well.

Not trying to sound like a dick or anything, but if someone goes through undergrad and can't find a couple sources for LORs they have got to be one horrible student. There are PLENTY of quality grad schools that don't require experience. If anything, grad schools are easier to get into. Just take the GRE/GMAT, submit a couple LORs, and done. Now if someone doesn't have the minimum GPA to apply then, well, that's their fault.

[LibForestPaul]

Reading the comments are a hoot, most seem to be from teachers and professors, so the spin is what you would find from a bunch of cops on police abuse thread.

This comment stuck out though:



Kiddies, this is truth right here.

Right now, over half of people who start college don't finish.

Many of those who do, do so leaving with a massive debt load.

And in spite of the success stories, you are most likely not going to be the next Jobs, or Gates or Zuckerberg.

There are only so many ways in which you can re-invent playing with each other or yourselves on gadgets and gizmos.

Learn a trade, learn how to make or produce something.

You most likely won't ever starve.

All we need is licensing for Engineers and Scientist. Then the state can mandate Master Or Doctorates, like they do for audiologists, pharmacists. etc...

[oyarde]

I could probably do some LOR's for $30, commas and everything , lol.

[TCE]

Not trying to sound like a dick or anything, but if someone goes through undergrad and can't find a couple sources for LORs they have got to be one horrible student. There are PLENTY of quality grad schools that don't require experience. If anything, grad schools are easier to get into. Just take the GRE/GMAT, submit a couple LORs, and done. Now if someone doesn't have the minimum GPA to apply then, well, that's their fault.

Agreed. I have plenty of sources for Letters of Recommendation, it is more a case of there not being any jobs I'm qualified for since virtually all of them demand relevant experience.