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Thread: Student debt bubble popping

  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by torchbearer View Post
    wouldn't the people hurt by debt forgiveness be the people holding the other side of the loan?
    Since that Phony Money is already spent and being circulated in the economy, the real people being hurt most are those in the economy, the value of whose currency holdings was siphoned out of that thin-air vacuum. They aren't named as parties of interest, so they are ignored. But it ultimately comes out of their asses nonetheless, and is part of the load on the economic treadmill they are forced to walk. And a double-load is placed on that treadmill, as taxpayers that were forced to pay for debts incurred, as they now get to pay--with interest--for the privilege of having their currency debased on someone else's behalf!

    Meanwhile, those paying for educations out of pocket were forced to pay more (MUCH MORE) as an army of government subsidized students with guaranteed loans showed up in force and bid the prices of education up to ungodly levels. Not their "fault", but that was very much a market-distorting fundamental.

    No, everyone, not just "taxpayers", is definitely a party of interest in this. Just not on the reward side.



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  3. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Ron Paul...his track record is really good on such things.
    Understatement of the year.
    "Sorry, guys, the rebellion is off. We couldn't get a rebellion permit."
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  4. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Douglas View Post
    Since that Phony Money is already spent and being circulated in the economy, the real people being hurt most are those in the economy, the value of whose currency holdings was siphoned out of that thin-air vacuum. They aren't named as parties of interest, so they are ignored. But it ultimately comes out of their asses nonetheless, and is part of the load on the economic treadmill they are forced to walk. And a double-load is placed on that treadmill, as taxpayers that were forced to pay for debts incurred, as they now get to pay--with interest--for the privilege of having their currency debased on someone else's behalf!

    Meanwhile, those paying for educations out of pocket were forced to pay more (MUCH MORE) as an army of government subsidized students with guaranteed loans showed up in force and bid the prices of education up to ungodly levels. Not their "fault", but that was very much a market-distorting fundamental.

    No, everyone, not just "taxpayers", is definitely a party of interest in this. Just not on the reward side.

    then we are talking about the fault of the monetary system, that won't be fixed with anything done to student loans.
    and from what i'm reading, you are just stating a butterfly effect. "the money supply change effects everyone", right?
    what about leaving everything as is... doesn't it also have a huge negative effect on everyone?

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  5. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drex View Post
    Is this good if I am about to enter college next year?
    Go to the cheapest university in the top 20 (or as close as you can get to it) for your particular study. If that is not an option, go to a community college for 2 years, 4.0, then transfer to the best possible school in your state for your major. If it comes between getting a 4.0 with college debt or having anything less and graduating debt free, choose the debt option. Don't work if it'll screw up your grades.

    I wouldn't sweat student loan debt too much if you do the above.
    Last edited by Jordan; 11-27-2012 at 05:49 PM.

  6. #35

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    thinking about the federal government paying the interest on these loans... every time these deferred or default payments recapitalize the previous years interest into the principle, it increases the tax payers bill.

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  7. #36
    Untimely ripped fisharmor's Avatar
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    Well crap.

    Here's an angle nobody writes articles about.

    I work for a company that makes software for the companies that service this debt. Note that I didn't even say anything about the original creditors or the students. Nope - there are already two third parties involved, the company servicing the debt for the original creditor (usually Dept of Ed), and my employer who makes their software.
    In some cases, the only thing the debt servicer company does is take DoE accounts, chop them into portfolios, and then farm those out to a third third party to collect.

    Business processes are already at the point now where three other multi-thousand-employee companies who have jack shit to do with the original debt can be involved in the process and still flip a buck.

    As more students default, there's more potential money. More potential money equals more work. More work means more employees, and what's that you say? Unemployment is still officially around 8%?

    Now for the thing that sucks - me. I suck.
    Because I'm helping these people come up with IT solutions that enable them to pick those bones. They are very competitive, and so is my employer.
    We will find a way to make them successful. Not all of them, but tens of thousands of employees.

    Employees with families and mortgages and soccer games to drive their kids to.
    The worse the situation gets, the more entrenched the market becomes.
    The more difficult it is to do something meaningful about it without a lot of people getting laid off.
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  8. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    Well crap.

    Here's an angle nobody writes articles about.

    I work for a company that makes software for the companies that service this debt. Note that I didn't even say anything about the original creditors or the students. Nope - there are already two third parties involved, the company servicing the debt for the original creditor (usually Dept of Ed), and my employer who makes their software.
    In some cases, the only thing the debt servicer company does is take DoE accounts, chop them into portfolios, and then farm those out to a third third party to collect.

    Business processes are already at the point now where three other multi-thousand-employee companies who have jack shit to do with the original debt can be involved in the process and still flip a buck.

    As more students default, there's more potential money. More potential money equals more work. More work means more employees, and what's that you say? Unemployment is still officially around 8%?

    Now for the thing that sucks - me. I suck.
    Because I'm helping these people come up with IT solutions that enable them to pick those bones. They are very competitive, and so is my employer.
    We will find a way to make them successful. Not all of them, but tens of thousands of employees.

    Employees with families and mortgages and soccer games to drive their kids to.
    The worse the situation gets, the more entrenched the market becomes.
    The more difficult it is to do something meaningful about it without a lot of people getting laid off.
    the amount of people living off the parasites isn't that huge, even when you add in all the servicers of those companies... and the servicers of those companies.
    for instance, who maintains your copiers? in house? doubt it.

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  9. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by JacobSzumniak View Post
    So I have 100k in student debt what happens to me when this so called bubble collapses? Will my interest rates go down? lol
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    Well crap.

    Here's an angle nobody writes articles about.

    I work for a company that makes software for the companies that service this debt. Note that I didn't even say anything about the original creditors or the students. Nope - there are already two third parties involved, the company servicing the debt for the original creditor (usually Dept of Ed), and my employer who makes their software.
    In some cases, the only thing the debt servicer company does is take DoE accounts, chop them into portfolios, and then farm those out to a third third party to collect.

    Business processes are already at the point now where three other multi-thousand-employee companies who have jack shit to do with the original debt can be involved in the process and still flip a buck.

    As more students default, there's more potential money. More potential money equals more work. More work means more employees, and what's that you say? Unemployment is still officially around 8%?

    Now for the thing that sucks - me. I suck.
    Because I'm helping these people come up with IT solutions that enable them to pick those bones. They are very competitive, and so is my employer.
    We will find a way to make them successful. Not all of them, but tens of thousands of employees.

    Employees with families and mortgages and soccer games to drive their kids to.
    The worse the situation gets, the more entrenched the market becomes.
    The more difficult it is to do something meaningful about it without a lot of people getting laid off.

    So what do you think will happen to all the students who don't repay their debt? They go to collection agencies? But you can't declare bankruptcy even when it gets to that point? What do you think is going to happen if this gets REALLY bad and everybody stops paying?
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
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  10. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by jkr View Post
    I just wish it was dischargeable in bankruptcy...i am fuGGed bAd- 'till i die
    Maybe you'll find a sucker to marry you. My mom paid off the remainder of my dad's student loans. Yep, he was still paying back loans at age ~40. After getting a double major in math and chemistry, he spent almost his entire career doing what he learned in the army-electrician stuff. (and he couldn't keep a job for several years before that...) College is SUCH a scam.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul
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  11. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    *shrugs* Ron Paul made a lot or predictions in the '80's that took 20-30 years to come to fruition. I heard him say that he doesn't like to predict exactly when events will happen, just that it will happen.

    Ron Paul talks about hyperinflation in a manner that says he believes it is inevitable, and I'm inclined to believe him if for no other reason than his track record is really good on such things.
    I consider the prediction that I will die in 50 years very accurate, but useless. So do you as a person who believes Paul's predictions bank on hyperinflation happening within 5 years or 30? Can't be both! Or are you burning a candle on 2 ends?

    If we're going to call bullshit every year that global warming isn't how it's predicted and blame Al Gore for scaring people into "green" profits. How cheap does gold have to be before I can say I was scammed?
    Last edited by Tpoints; 11-27-2012 at 06:11 PM.

  12. #41

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    Stop caring and just buy gold and silver, more silver than gold, and prepare yourself!!!!
    It's just an opinion... man...

  13. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoOneButPaul View Post
    Stop caring and just buy gold and silver, more silver than gold, and prepare yourself!!!!
    How do I know, or when will I know, that hyperinflation isn't propaganda invented by gold sellers to make a profit from fear and ignorance of people who have no degree in economics?

  14. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tpoints View Post
    How do I know, or when will I know, that hyperinflation isn't propaganda invented by gold sellers to make a profit from fear and ignorance of people who have no degree in economics?
    well, what is hyperinflation?
    what has the federal reserve been doing for the past 4 years.
    you do the math.
    Last edited by torchbearer; 11-27-2012 at 06:24 PM.

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  15. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tpoints View Post
    How cheap does gold have to be before I can say I was scammed?
    Is this a real question?
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

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  16. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tpoints View Post
    How do I know, or when will I know, that hyperinflation isn't propaganda invented by gold sellers to make a profit from fear and ignorance of people who have no degree in economics?
    I have a degree in economics. Happy?
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  17. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by torchbearer View Post
    well, what is hyperinflation?
    what is the federal reserve been doing for the past 4 years.
    you do the math.
    This^^ The default is already here. (printing money is a type of default)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul
    The government is incapable of doing what it's supposed to do. A job like the provision of security is something best left to private institutions.
    My music/art page is here"government is the enemy of liberty"-RP
    That which doesn't kill me has made a grave tactical error
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    This whole board is a thoughtcrime in progress.
    Quote Originally Posted by danke View Post
    I carry my man purse for fashion, not function.

  18. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Is this a real question?
    Yes. Because a person who bought gold at $500 in 1988 had to wait until 2005 to get his money back.

    Or a person who bought gold at 700 in 1980 had to wait until 2006.

    What do we call somebody who buys something and can't get his money back for 17-26 years?

  19. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tpoints View Post
    How do I know, or when will I know, that hyperinflation isn't propaganda invented by gold sellers to make a profit from fear and ignorance of people who have no degree in economics?
    For that you don't need a degree in economics. A simple interest, not even a degree, in history would do splendidly.

  20. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Douglas View Post
    For that you don't need a degree in economics. A simple interest, not even a degree, in history would do splendidly.
    So people who bought gold in 1980 at $700 had to wait 26 years to get their money back...they were knowledgeable about history and economics or not? Or did I misunderstand hyperinflation prepping as buying gold? What's your strategy that history can vindicate?

  21. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by JacobSzumniak View Post
    So I have 100k in student debt what happens to me when this so called bubble collapses? Will my interest rates go down? lol
    It's more likely that the government will swoop in and buy up your inflated debt from the people you owe, which means the people who made those loans to you will get bailed out, and you will still be stuck with the debt.

    That's what happened in the housing market in 08. Banks were able to sell off toxic assets to the government and people were still stuck with unmanageable mortgates. Of course, homeowners (well, not really 'owners) had the benefit (sort of) of being able to walk away from their homes.

    Anyone who has student debt knows that there's no "walking away" from it.
    Last edited by nobody's_hero; 11-27-2012 at 06:46 PM.
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  22. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tpoints View Post
    Yes. Because a person who bought gold at $500 in 1988 had to wait until 2005 to get his money back.

    Or a person who bought gold at 700 in 1980 had to wait until 2006.

    What do we call somebody who buys something and can't get his money back for 17-26 years?
    You're wasting your time with that here. I tried that thought process for a very long time. Doesn't sell too well.

    +rep though

  23. #52
    Contributing Member Henry Rogue's Avatar
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    This goes against the principles of the Free Market and I don't advocate it, but I'm surprised that there aren't calls in the media and by students, for price fixing to combat the evil higher education price gougers. It seems likely they a long with the universities themselves would call for such things in other parts of the economy. I guess the schools indoctrination has routed out such thoughts when it would pertain to them. It would be funny to see those schools sweat with worry, if there was a push for that.
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  24. #53

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    This will be fun for me. I got called into the office last year...Boss man says the Board of Trustees require that my position now has a 4 year degree. I'm at the point of no return now, I've accrued college debt and if I quit now, I'll have nothing to show for it.

    I already have two years experience, but I'm SOL if I ever get laid off. Scrolling down the jobs classified shows "4 Year Degree REQUIRED" on every single job opening. It's the new high school degree or you're stuck in retail (did that for six years). When I graduated, a hard work ethic and a willingness to be taught would get you really far in a non-technical profession (you know, like doctors and such).

  25. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordan View Post
    You're wasting your time with that here. I tried that thought process for a very long time. Doesn't sell too well.

    +rep though
    do they flog people for refusing to buy into their fear tactics?

  26. #55

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    The money supply is already inflated. Some theories suggest that it's just sitting in bank vaults ready to be loaned out. If it starts to be circulated on a large scale, well, it's gonna be like the gates opening at the start of a horse race.
    If something bad happens, we will be blamed. If something good happens, we will get no credit. If nothing happens, we will be forgotten.

  27. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tpoints View Post
    Yes. Because a person who bought gold at $500 in 1988 had to wait until 2005 to get his money back.
    Tell that to Lisa Welchell who played Blair from the Facts of Life. The actress lost her entire fortune in the late 80s to the market crash. Too bad she didn't buy gold.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  28. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tpoints View Post
    Yes. Because a person who bought gold at $500 in 1988 had to wait until 2005 to get his money back.

    Or a person who bought gold at 700 in 1980 had to wait until 2006.

    What do we call somebody who buys something and can't get his money back for 17-26 years?
    I'd call them the opposite of someone who held on to U.S. dollars and didn't get any of it back after even 17-26 years. Gold isn't a get-rich-quick scheme. It's more like a 'dear-god-this-shit-better-be-worth-more-than-a-dollar-one-day' scheme.

    I closed out a $300 bank account in 2010 and bought $12 silver dollars. If I had left that money in a bank account, I'd have earned 0.25% interest or something on it, every year (then you have to subtract about a 3-4% loss of the dollar's purchasing power every year). The melt value of that silver today is worth about $315. So I did better than I would have if I had left that money in a piddly savings account. I'm not going out and buying Jaguar convertibles, but . . .
    Last edited by nobody's_hero; 11-27-2012 at 06:59 PM.
    If something bad happens, we will be blamed. If something good happens, we will get no credit. If nothing happens, we will be forgotten.

  29. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneStarLocke View Post
    This will be fun for me. I got called into the office last year...Boss man says the Board of Trustees require that my position now has a 4 year degree. I'm at the point of no return now, I've accrued college debt and if I quit now, I'll have nothing to show for it.

    I already have two years experience, but I'm SOL if I ever get laid off. Scrolling down the jobs classified shows "4 Year Degree REQUIRED" on every single job opening. It's the new high school degree or you're stuck in retail (did that for six years). When I graduated, a hard work ethic and a willingness to be taught would get you really far in a non-technical profession (you know, like doctors and such).
    Yep, in China you pretty much need a degree to get a job as a salesperson earning next to nothing in a shopping mall store. The only reason for that: a glut of meaningless, inapplicable degrees--the new "high school diploma" that everyone is expected to have. The only difference: the degrees were cheaper because it was the parents paying for them, and guaranteeing payments for them, and not the government.

  30. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tpoints View Post
    Yes. Because a person who bought gold at $500 in 1988 had to wait until 2005 to get his money back.

    Or a person who bought gold at 700 in 1980 had to wait until 2006.

    What do we call somebody who buys something and can't get his money back for 17-26 years?
    I'd call them long term investors.
    .[QUOTE]"Every great new thought was opposed. Every great new invention was denounced. The first motor was considered foolish. The airplane was considered impossible. The power loom was considered vicious. Anesthesia was considered sinful. But the men of unborrowed vision went ahead. They fought, they suffered and they paid. But they won." - Ayn Rand, The Fountainhead[/QUOTE]
    ..
    .

    I blog at Red State Eclectic, and I tweet here,.

  31. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Tell that to Lisa Welchell who played Blair from the Facts of Life. The actress lost her entire fortune in the late 80s to the market crash. Too bad she didn't buy gold.
    that's because she was entirely invested in the stock market? Or what? had she even a house?

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