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Thread: Meanwhile, Egypt Falls Apart Again

  1. #1

    Meanwhile, Egypt Falls Apart Again

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8B30GP20121204

    Apparently the leader who declared himself to be above the courts installed by his predecessor is getting some backlash. In fact, the new president has fled the palace.

    "Our marches are against tyranny and the void constitutional decree and we won't retract our position until our demands are met," said Hussein Abdel Ghany, a spokesman for an opposition coalition of liberal, leftist and other disparate factions.
    I'm not big on the totalitarian decree, but all he's asking for is a vote on the proposed constitution. That's too much Democracy for the left, I guess.

    They say the draft constitution does not reflect the interests of Egypt's liberals and other groups, an accusation dismissed by Islamists who insist it is a balanced document.
    Then vote no. Duh.



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  3. #2
    There are many theories surrounding this situation. I've been trying to read as much as I can from as many places as possible, well, so have we all, right? Here we have an Islamic man that is trying to establish a constitutional government in Egypt. There are judiciary remnants of the old Mubarak era that are in control of portions of Egypt that don't want to let go of their power under a constitutional government and even elements that want another US installed puppet as "insurance" in getting the foreign aid that comes with it. They despise the idea of term limits and the possibility of being voted out by the people they govern over. They are entrenched, have been entrenched, and they have every intention of staying in power. If you read the articles from the same media sources that had earlier reported that Morsi had installed himself as Pharoah over all Egypt, you'll notice they are clarifying the facts on this. His "power grab" that was tirelessly reported was actually just this decree:

    The Constitution, if accepted by the people, shall be the law of the land, and only his "sovereign decisions"—those that affect the architecture of governance—be temporarily immune from judicial review during the drafting of the constitution. This decree ends after the voting process in which the people to choose to ratify the new constitutional government or reject it.

    Not Morsi shall be the law of the land. The constitution shall be the law of the land. You also find the decree is only in effect while they are drafting it. He himself has not declared himself immune or supreme god king. Many of the articles you find will actually admit this, and then go back to all the "unrest" and angry people that even say things were better with Mubarak! You'll notice that most they choose to interview are the remnants of the Mubarak Judicial system that just want things to go back to being the way they were, with their powers intact. Just to make things even more interesting The Obama administration is seeking to finalize $1 billion in debt relief for Egypt and it has backed a $4.8 billion International Monetary Fund loan to Cairo while "watching the events." They have threatened to withhold the money. This has only served to embolden the detractors, those clinging to their remaining powers, since they feel Morsi could possibly prevent them from fattening their wallets with American money, the way it has always been. His decree is temporary and necessary to shield those drafting the Constitution during this process, which should be ready to be voted on by the people by the end of January. Remember, after all this, he is still leaving it up to the people to decide whether they accept it or reject it by popular vote. Why would he even bother putting it up to a vote at this point if he has established himself as Pharaoh?

    Another thing to consider. Where is the military? What do their chiefs think of what is going on? Why wouldn't he seize control of the military first, before declaring himself god of Egypt? Assuming they would all just go along with it after the fact is a large assumption, and not something a grand aspiring dictator would just leave to chance. It is interesting to read the articles as the media doesn't seem to know whether they should "like" him or not. He was democratically chosen and is working on a constitutional government that would actually limit his own powers as well. However, he is Muslim and that is the thorn they are wrestling with. I read one article that said he was installing a "post-Mubarak, democratic, Islamist-led constitutional government in Egypt." The author couldn't decide whether it was "proper" or not and basically concluded the lousy piece by saying that he didn't know if it was a good idea or not, but it sure was suspenseful. How ridiculous. This defies the bias they perpetuate that Muslims cannot be smart or reasonable under any circumstances. So flip-flop,flip-flop. They sound like a bunch of Romneys trying to hedge their bets.
    I'm not saying this because I am Egyptian or Muslim. The situation over there really doesn't affect me at all so I have no motive to trust or distrust either way. I find it interesting to watch the media, who I admit I loathe, wrestle with the idea of having to possibly respect somebody that doesn't fit their "good guy" mold and even defies some entrenched stereotypes. It also seems MSM, as in especially ours, really don't like anybody trying democracy without their intrusion and approval and are very quick in denouncing it.

    This situation happening in Cairo, the establishment of a constitutional government, has also led me to read up on some of the fear our early colonists had of George Washington while our government was being established. I am not comparing Morsi to Washington by any stretch, I am simply noting many of the same statements and worries were being voiced by our people back then. Many accused Washington of trying to be the next King George, that he was worse than King George, and plenty that said they were better off under British rule. I think Mark Twain said it best when he said, "History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."

    The media sounds confused. I believe they are. "Only Western White people can actually establish a successful democratic government, and even then, it doesn't always work! That's what we have foreign aid money for! Nobody does it like us!"
    Last edited by paulbot24; 12-04-2012 at 10:14 PM.
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  4. #3
    I haven't read extensively on it. But last week, before the draft was produced, NPR seemed a bit sympathetic to the guy. Apparently the old government kept throwing out everything he tried to do, including deciding that the election that produced their legislative body was null and void.

    If he was a tyrant, those people would be getting beheaded about now, I think.

    The way it stands now, the judicial branch is just bent on keeping him from accomplishing anything. I can indeed be a fan of that, but the constitution he's proposing doesn't seem like it's written by an Islamic fundamentalist.

    I don't get why the left is so bent over the constitution. Like I said, vote no.

  5. #4
    Don't be fooled by the Constitution factor, I've heard that the certain parties in Egypt are boycotting the process and that the Constitution will feature Islamic elements. I have also heard that the new Constitution will be very similar to the one in place under Mubarack



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