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Thread: Is Egypt's President Seizing Power or Stopping Runaway Judiciary Appointed by Mubarak?

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    Default Is Egypt's President Seizing Power or Stopping Runaway Judiciary Appointed by Mubarak?




    Is Egyptian President Mohammed Morsi seizing dictatorial powers via his Thanksgiving Day decrees, or is he instead protecting elected government from a runaway judiciary appointed by former dictator Hosni Mubarak?


    Egypt's Morsi: New Pharaoh or Egyptian Cincinnatus?


    The New American
    25 November 2012


    The Thanksgiving Day decrees by Egyptian President Mohammed Morsi sent Egypt back into street protests and turmoil, prompting dissident Mohamed ElBaradei to charge Morsi had become a “new pharaoh.” But is Egypt's elected president seizing dictatorial powers, or is he instead protecting elected government from the onslaught of a runaway judiciary appointed by the former dictator Hosni Mubarak?

    The establishment media in the United States and the West has decided the former, portraying the power struggle as one with Islamic extremists on one side, and everyone else on the other side. In that media campaign, the Western media has an ally among the secular parties. “Morsi usurped all state powers and appointed himself Egypt's new pharaoh. A major blow to the revolution that could have dire consequences,” dissident and former Nobel Prize winning former United Nations bureaucrat Mohamed ElBaradei told the press.

    At issue is Morsi's six-part decree.

    First, Morsi nullified Egypt's Supreme Judicial Council (the nation's Supreme Court) rulings invalidating the parliamentary election results of January 2012, where Egyptians chose an Assembly (lower house of parliament) dominated by the Muslim Brotherhood's Freedom and Justice Party and its Salafist allies. Both the Muslim Brotherhood's and the al Noura Party Salafists identify with Islam and Sharia law.

    Second, Morsi reopened criminal prosecutions of Mubarak-era murders of protesters and dissidents by government officials (closed by the Mubarak-dominated courts and prosecutor-general).

    Third, Morsi appointed his own prosecutor-general (roughly equivalent to the U.S. Attorney General).

    Fourth, Morsi invalidated any court rulings that would abolish elected bodies or the provisional constitution proclaimed by Mubarak before his ouster.

    Fifth, Morsi ordered drawing up a new constitution by a select committee of the elected Assembly within six months.

    The five decrees summarized above are understandable, considering the judicial overreach by Supreme Judicial Council members — all of them Mubarak holdovers. (The remaining decree will be discussed below.) The Egyptian Supreme Judicial Council dissolved the legitimately elected legislative Assembly (the lower house of Egypt's parliament) in its own decree of November 7. “All the rulings and decisions of the Supreme Constitutional Court are final and not subject to appeal ... and are binding for all state institutions,” the unelected court ruled November 7, reaffirming two earlier decisions abolishing the Assembly.

    It's more than a little hypocritical of the Supreme Judicial Council to claim — as it's now doing — that Morsi is taking dictatorial power so soon after the council dissolved the Assembly, half of the only other elected branch of government. The decision — on the day of the U.S. Presidential and Congressional elections — was equivalent to the U.S. Supreme Court ruling that the U.S. election results were invalid, and that the U.S. House of Representatives should be abolished until new elections take place.

    This was actually the third time the Egyptian Supreme Judicial Council declared the January elections invalid. The parliament had been elected in January 2012, but was dissolved by the military after the June Supreme Judicial Council decision claiming the elections were invalid. The November 7 decree followed similar rulings by the same court in July and September upholding the dissolution of the parliamentary Assembly. Morsi's latest decree is the most recent battle between the secular, military-allied court and the popular, Islamist-leaning Assembly and President.

    The final Morsi decree is the worrisome one:


    “The President may take the necessary actions and measures to protect the country and the goals of the revolution.”


    What this final decree means has not been clarified or sufficiently limited by Morsi, but the power taken by President Morsi is theoretically unlimited. Morsi's decree was almost certainly an attempt to stop the Supreme Judicial Council from invalidating the election results in the upper house of parliament (the Shura Council), since the court was expected to take up a case to do just that in the coming months. The Shura Council had been elected in the same election as the Assembly. And there were even unconfirmed rumors in the Egyptian press that the court would consider declaring the presidential election invalid. (The 2012 presidential and parliamentary elections were the first fair elections in the nation's history.)

    Morsi's decree comes in the wake of charges that his government has begun to engage in censorship. The British Broadcasting Corporation reported allegations of government censorship, including struggles with government-owned news, which is still in the grip of Mubarak-era secular holdovers.

    Egypt is clearly in the throes of a struggle between a judiciary tied to the old dictatorial ways, and an Islamist president educated in the United States who claims to represent both pluralistic interests and Islam. The judicial branch has clearly overreached, and attempted to invalidate election results it didn't like. The only question that remains for Egypt is: Will Morsi become the new Pharaoh for Egypt, or will he, like the Roman Consul Cincinnatus, walk away from dictatorial power and hand it all back to the legislative branch when the new constitution is drafted? That question has yet to be decided.


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    Last edited by FrankRep; 11-25-2012 at 02:38 PM.
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    Egypt: Mohammed Morsi insists 'I won't be another dictator'
    Egypt's president Mohammed Morsi has insisted he would not be another dictator as he tried to calm violent opposition to a decree that grants him absolute powers.


    Telegraph UK
    25 Nov 2012


    As police continued to fight battles with protesters around Tahrir Square in Cairo on Sunday, Mr Morsi issued a statement stressing that the power seizure was only "temporary" and calling for political dialogue.

    He also agreed to meet Egypt's judges on Monday to negotiate a solution to the crisis.

    "The presidency reiterates the temporary nature of those measures, which are not intended to concentrate power," the statement said.

    "The presidency stresses its firm commitment to engage all political forces in the inclusive democratic dialogue to reach a common ground."
    ...

    Opponents fear that there will be clashes on Tuesday when the Muslim Brotherhood organises a counter-rally to support the president against the Tahrir Square protesters. Some even fear the military, which have taken a back seat since Mr Morsi became president in June, may use the confrontation as a excuse to step back in.
    ...

    "He is the elected president and he is the only elected authority in the country," he said. "I think the political role of the military is finished."
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    Is Egypt's President Seizing Power or Stopping Runaway Judiciary Appointed by Mubarak?
    False dichotomy is false.
    tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito ˇ fiat justitia, ruat caelum ˇ sic semper tyrannis
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    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    False dichotomy is false.
    Explain please.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankRep View Post
    Explain please.
    It's not an "either-or" thing. Morsi could be trying to both seize power AND neuter a Mubarak-ite judiciary.

    The one does not preclude the other. Hence, the question quoted in my prior post presents a false dichotomy.
    tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito ˇ fiat justitia, ruat caelum ˇ sic semper tyrannis
    The Bastiat Collection - FREE PDF

    Frédéric Bastiat
    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law."
      - The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
      - Government (p. 99)
    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
      - Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)
    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
      - Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    It's not an "either-or" thing. Morsi could be trying to both seize power AND neuter a Mubarak-ite judiciary.

    The one does not preclude the other. Hence, the question quoted in my prior post presents a false dichotomy.
    So you completely ignored article and jumped on the title? The article gets into that aspect.


    Quote Originally Posted by FrankRep View Post
    The final Morsi decree is the worrisome one:


    “The President may take the necessary actions and measures to protect the country and the goals of the revolution.”
    Last edited by FrankRep; 11-25-2012 at 05:17 PM.
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    Truth is treason ... Occam's Banana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankRep View Post
    So you completely ignored article and jumped on the title? The article gets into that aspect.
    No. I read posts 1 & 2 in their entirety. My assessment of false dichotomy stands.

    In fact, the quotation you repeated in post 7 (from the Morsi decree) is an *excellent* indication that Morsi may very well be trying to do BOTH things (and not just one OR the other).

    IOW: Morsi is power-grabbing AND he's trying to neutralize his political opponents in the judiciary. It is NOT an "either-or" thing (as the title suggests). I don't see what's so hard to understand about this.
    tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito ˇ fiat justitia, ruat caelum ˇ sic semper tyrannis
    The Bastiat Collection - FREE PDF

    Frédéric Bastiat
    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law."
      - The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
      - Government (p. 99)
    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
      - Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)
    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
      - Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)

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  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by alucard13mmfmj View Post
    Power grab none-the-less.
    Many of Hosni Mubarak's people (former dictator) are still in command. That makes things a little messy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    No. I read posts 1 & 2 in their entirety. My assessment of false dichotomy stands.

    In fact, the quotation you repeated in post 7 (from the Morsi decree) is an *excellent* indication that Morsi may very well be trying to do BOTH things (and not just one OR the other).

    Well actually, he doesn't done anything yet.

    I think so far the mass media is blowing this way out of proportion.

    We'll just need to keep watch and see what happens.
    Last edited by FrankRep; 11-26-2012 at 06:44 AM.
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  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankRep View Post
    Many of Hosni Mubarak's people (former dictator) are still in command. That makes things a little messy.
    Every dictator has good intentions.
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  14. #13

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    Bey the Egyptian ppl get to see how their vote counts....if your government does not like the vote they will 'dissolve" or ignore. Here in the USA they ignore results. Ie Colorado.

    When will people realize that government is pure corruption.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankRep View Post
    Well actually, he doesn't done anything yet.

    I think so far the mass media is blowing this way out of proportion.

    We'll just need to keep watch and see what happens.
    If his intention is indeed to get rid of the particular judges, he has been slow to make any moves to replace them and re-establish the courts. That would do a lot to re-assure both protestors at home and the international community.
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    Mohammed Morsi = CFR/CIA house plant
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