Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 32

Thread: Rothbard's Blind Spot

  1. #1

    Default Rothbard's Blind Spot

    This is my response to Len Larson's post in Hazlitt - Public works mean taxes...

    Quote Originally Posted by Len Larson View Post
    Thanks for taking the time to educate me and others here.
    Perhaps you could comment on this passage found at Mises: http://mises.org/rothbard/myth.pdf
    Yeah, that's a pretty great paper by Rothbard. Man, I hate giving him credit.

    Before jumping in gotta warn you that there's going to be quite of bit of redundancy...but the point is to emphasize what's important and to help demonstrate that Rothbard's critique of the government was based on a false premise. It definitely does not take away from the value of his contribution...but it does help us understand why so many of his followers have been aimlessly wandering around in the wilderness.

    Ok...here we go.

    In The Myth of Neutral Taxation he references another paper of his...Toward a Reconstruction of Utility and Welfare Economics. In that paper, which is also pretty darn great, he starts off by saying..."Individual valuation is the keystone of economic theory." I definitely agree...which is why individual valuation is the keystone of pragmatarianism. Here's what Rothbard had to say about individual valuation...

    The crucial point is that when consumers spend, they benefit, because the expenditures are voluntary. The consumers buy product X because they decide that, for whatever reason, it would benefit them to buy that product rather than use the money on some other product or save or add to their cash balances. They give up money for product X because they expect to prefer that product to whatever they could have done with the money elsewhere; their preference reflects a judgment of relative benefit from that, as compared to another, purchase. In my own terms, spending choices by consumers demonstrate their preference for one, as compared to another, way of using their money.
    ...and again...

    The concept of demonstrated preference is simply this: that actual choice reveals, or demonstrates, a man’s preferences; that is, that his preferences are deducible from what he has chosen in action. Thus, if a man chooses to spend an hour at a concert rather than a movie, we deduce that the former was preferred, or ranked higher on his value scale. Similarly, if a man spends five dollars on a shirt we deduce that he preferred purchasing the shirt to any other uses he could have found for the money. This concept of preference, rooted in real choices, forms the keystone of the logical structure of economic analysis, and particularly of utility and welfare analysis.
    It should be obvious that demonstrated preference is important to Rothbard's argument. Yet, I just created the Wikipedia entry for demonstrated preference. Rothbard's followers should have created and developed that entry a long time ago. That they have not done so is irrefutable proof that they are lost in the wilderness. Developing Rothbard's economic argument just wasn't a priority for his followers. Instead, they put all their eggs in his non-aggression principle basket. This principle of theirs trumps the need to understand economics...opportunity cost concept, partial knowledge and so on. This means that they have no idea how markets truly work. Therefore, they are advocating a religion...not economics.

    Rothbard, however, promoted both. Let's ignore his religion and focus on his economics.

    We have no idea how much the taxpayers would value these services, if indeed they valued them at all. For example, suppose that the government levies a tax of X dollars on A, B, C, and so on, for police protection—for protection, that is, against irregular, competing looters and not against itself. The fact that A is forced to pay $1,000 is no indication that $1,000 in any sense gauges the value to A of police protection. It is possible that he values it very little, and would value it less if he could turn to competing defense agencies. Moreover, A may be a pacifist; so he may consider the State's police protection a net harm rather than a benefit. But one thing we do know: If these payments to government were voluntary, we can be sure that they would be substantially less than present total tax revenue.
    In terms of strategy...what do you think that liberals will focus on in that passage? Here's my guess...

    If these payments to government were voluntary, we can be sure that they would be substantially less than present total tax revenue.
    Imagine you are a door to door salesman. Your bottom line would depend on getting your foot in the door. So do you think it would help get your foot in the door if you were covered in blood, wearing a hockey mask and wielding a bloody butcher's knife? Nope. The people we need to sell to are the very people who don't believe that the total tax revenue should be substantially less. So do you think it would help get your foot in the door to mention anything about taxes being theft...or about the total tax revenue being substantially less? Nope. Those things only prevent us from getting our foot in the door. Anything that limits our ability to help people understand the importance of individual valuation is a stumbling block that should be removed. So let's remove it...which would leave us with this...

    We have no idea how much the taxpayers would value these services, if indeed they valued them at all. For example, suppose that the government levies a tax of X dollars on A, B, C, and so on, for police protection—for protection, that is, against irregular, competing looters and not against itself. The fact that A is forced to pay $1,000 is no indication that $1,000 in any sense gauges the value to A of police protection. It is possible that he values it very little, and would value it less if he could turn to competing defense agencies. Moreover, A may be a pacifist; so he may consider the State's police protection a net harm rather than a benefit.
    This is very true. What's the solution? Get rid of taxes or implement pragmatarianism? If A is a pacifist...then in a pragmatarian system...he just won't give any of his taxes to any government organizations that use violence. Therefore, we can have taxes and individual valuation.

    Only the free market, then, can determine different qualities or degrees of a service. Second, and even more important, there is no indication that for a particular taxpayer, the government is supplying a "service" at all. Since the tax is compulsory, it may well be that the "service" has zero or even negative value for individual taxpayers. Thus, a pacifist, philosophically opposed to any use of violence, would not consider a tax levied for his and others' police protection to be a positive service; instead, he finds that he is being compelled, against his will, to pay for the provision of a "service" that he detests. In short, equal pricing on the market reflects demands by consumers who are voluntarily paying the price, who, in short, believe that they are gaining more from the good or service than they are giving up in exchange. But taxation is imposed on all people, regardless of whether they would be willing to pay such a price (the equal tax) voluntarily, or indeed whether they would voluntarily purchase any of this service at all.
    Same thing...in a pragmatarian system taxpayers would be able to engage in ethical consumerism.

    In the first place, how much of the deficient good should be supplied? What criterion can the State have for deciding the optimal amount and for gauging by how much the market provision of the service falls short? Even if free riders benefit from collective service X, in short, taxing them to pay for producing more will deprive them of unspecified amounts of private goods Y, Z, and so on. We know from their actions that these private consumers wish to continue to purchase private goods Y, Z, and so on, in various amounts. But where is their analogous demonstrated preference for the various collective goods? We know that a tax will deprive the free riders of various amounts of their cherished private goods, but we have no idea how much benefit they will acquire from the increased provision of the collective good; and so we have no warrant whatever for believing that the benefits will be greater than the imposed costs. The presumption should be quite the reverse. And what of those individuals who dislike the collective goods, pacifists who are morally outraged at defensive violence, environmentalists who worry over a dam destroying snail darters, and so on? In short, what of those persons who find other people's good their "bad?" Far from being free riders receiving external benefits, they are yoked to absorbing psychic harm from the supply of these goods. Taxing them to subsidize more defense, for example, will impose a further twofold injury on these hapless persons: once by taxing them, and second by supplying more of a hated service.
    How much of the deficient good should be supplied? That should be determined by the demonstrated preferences of taxpayers.

    Do cases exist where only coercion can yield desired services? At first glance, Baumol’s “external economy” grounds for an affirmative answer seem plausible. Such services as military protection, dams, highways, and so on, are important. People desire that they be supplied. Yet wouldn’t each person tend to slacken his payment, hoping that the others would pay? But to employ this as a rationale for State provision of such services is a questionbegging example of circular reasoning. For this peculiar condition holds only and precisely because the State, not the market, provides these services! The fact that the State provides a service means that, unlike the market, its provision of the service is completely separated from its collection of payment. Since the service is generally provided free and more or less indiscriminately to the citizens, it naturally follows that every individual—assured of the service—will try to shirk his taxes. For, unlike the market, his individual tax payment brings him nothing directly. And this condition cannot be a justification for State action; for it is only the consequence of the existence of the State action itself.
    Rothbard acknowledged that people desire public goods. If we created a market for public goods...then the provision of these goods would be connected to its collection of payment. If you want more protection for the environment...then you'll have to give more of your taxes to the EPA...and/or convince others to do so.

    A second important point is that, in contrast to the market, where consumers pay for received benefits (or, in nonprofit organizations, where members pay for psychic benefits), the State, like the robber, creates a total disjunction between benefit and payment. The taxpayer pays; the benefits are received, first and foremost, by the government itself, and secondarily, by those who receive the largess of government expenditures.
    Creating a market in the public sector would build a junction between benefit and payment.

    Since "benefits" are subjective, we cannot measure anyone's benefit on the market either, but we can conclude, from a person's voluntary purchase, that his (expected) benefit was greater than the value to him of the money given up in exchange. If I buy a newspaper for 25 cents, we can conclude that my expected benefit is greater than a quarter. But since taxes are compulsory and not voluntary, we can conclude nothing about the alleged benefits that are paid for with them. Suppose, in analogy, that I am forced at gunpoint to contribute 25 cents for a newspaper and that that newspaper is then forcibly hurled at my door. We would be able to conclude nothing about my alleged benefit from the newspaper. Not only might I be willing to pay no more than 5 cents for the paper, or even nothing on some days, I might positively detest the newspaper and would demand payment to accept it. From the fact of coercion there is no way of telling. Except that we can conclude that many people are not getting 25 cents' worth from the paper or indeed are positively suffering from this coerced "exchange." Otherwise, why the need to exercise coercion? Which is all that we can conclude about the "benefits" of taxation.
    This is all true...except...if taxpayers had the freedom to shop for themselves in the public sector...then if a taxpayer gave 25 cents to the EPA...then we can conclude that his (expected) benefit is greater than the value to him of the money given up in exchange.

    If you and I were both given the same exact tools and raw materials...then perhaps we'd come up with two entirely different products. The market is so great because everybody is given the opportunity to use their dollars to indicate which of our products they find more valuable. Rothbard and I both used the same great tools and raw materials...but he produced anarcho-capitalism while I produced pragmatarianism.

    It should be clear that, based on Rothbard's best economic arguments, anarcho-capitalism depends on the premise that you can't have taxes and individual valuation. Hopefully it should also be clear, based on my counter-arguments, that Rothbard's premise is faulty...it is entirely possible to have taxes and individual valuation.

    Arguing against taxes does absolutely nothing to help the people who want public goods to understand the importance of individual valuation. All it does is prevent them from learning about the keystone of economics. That's why pragmatarianism...aka tax choice...is something that we should all actively promote.

    Am I a better writer than Rothbard was? No. Am I a better public speaker than Rothbard was? Not even close. Am I smarter than Rothbard was? No. Am I better looking than Rothbard was? No. Do I have my own 10 commandments / NAP? Nope. But if you're tired of wandering around in the wilderness then I'm pretty sure I know where the exit is.



  • #2

    Default

    Rothbards economic contributions were far more important than his ethical ones. Its weird to see that backwards.
    Stop the Looting and Start Prosecuting! Gold plated Tungsten IS Money!
    We Must Dissent A colher não existe.
    A government is just a body of people, notably, usually, ungoverned.

    "You mean this entire war started because The Empire dressed as the enemy? That's exactly what happened in the last major war! Our government is so stupid!"

  • #3

    Default

    Who creates this public sector market? Individuals associating freely or some authority?
    Is it really a market if it does not emerge from the actions of individuals?

    Please demonstrate how the Regression Theorem would operate in your public sector market.
    Is it really a market if there is no mechanism by which something as fundamental as money can arise?

    You have not advanced your argument, merely restated your assertion in slightly different terms.
    I see you can link to Mises.org, please link to an article there that supports your position.

    Better yet, link to an article that you consider to be a reasonable critique of your position.
    Because I gotta tell you, right now I'm seeing you build up a non-falsifiable belief system AKA religion.
    Rothbard at least was up front about his belief in the NAP.

  • #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Len Larson View Post
    Who creates this public sector market? Individuals associating freely or some authority?
    Is it really a market if it does not emerge from the actions of individuals?
    At anytime throughout the year you could go to the EPA website and submit a tax payment. They'd give you a receipt and you'd submit all your receipts to the IRS by April 15. Would you have to give any taxes to the EPA? No...you could give your taxes to whichever government organizations you wanted.

    Right now the visible hand (congress) determines how our taxes are spent in the public sector. I'm advocating that we replace the visible hand with the invisible hand...the individual valuations of 150 million taxpayers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Len Larson View Post
    Please demonstrate how the Regression Theorem would operate in your public sector market. Is it really a market if there is no mechanism by which something as fundamental as money can arise?
    Put your money where your mouth is and create a Wikipedia entry for regression theorem. If it's worth it for you to do so then that will help me determine whether it's worth it for me to address.

    If taxpayers aren't happy with the government having a printing press...then what will they be able to do? They'll be able to do what consumers/donors can do...spend their money elsewhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by Len Larson View Post
    You have not advanced your argument, merely restated your assertion in slightly different terms. I see you can link to Mises.org, please link to an article there that supports your position.
    Here's a list of the economic concepts that support my position...libertarian economics. But there is no article at Mises.org that supports my argument that taxpayers should be given the freedom to directly allocate their taxes.

    Why is it that none of them advocate allowing taxpayers to directly allocate their taxes? That's how markets work. There's no guarantee that a solution to a problem will be found today...within a decade...or within our life times. Consider this passage...

    As protected firms become less innovative, a country’s overall economic growth may suffer. This is because, as Schumpeter emphasized nearly a century ago, economic growth thrives on “creative destruction.” In a healthy economy, new firms constantly arise to challenge older, less-innovative behemoths. - Matthew Mitchell, The Pathology of Privilege: The Economic Consequences of Government Favoritism
    The Mises Institute is...well...an institution. Just like the Republic Party and Democratic Party...they have a reputation to uphold. They are the epitome of less-innovative behemoths. Pragmatarianism is an innovative approach to the problem of government planners spending our money. I'd love it if the leaders of the Mises Institute took the concept and "sold" it...but I highly doubt that they will do so. Innovation generally means risk.

    Quote Originally Posted by Len Larson View Post
    Better yet, link to an article that you consider to be a reasonable critique of your position.
    Oh man...I love critiques of my position. All you have to do is google "critique of pragmatarianism". I'll let you decide whether any of them are reasonable. If you're not satisfied with any of the critiques then by all means feel free to e-mail your favorite economist and ask them to critique the concept.

    On this page...Unglamorous but Important Things... I've collected 81 snippets of people's critical responses to pragmatarianism. Read through all of them...or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Len Larson View Post
    Because I gotta tell you, right now I'm seeing you build up a non-falsifiable belief system AKA religion. Rothbard at least was up front about his belief in the NAP.
    Eh? I'm saying that we should create a market for public goods. Why do I advocate this? Because I believe that the consequences will be beneficial. The guy in the Bible...Job...was the epitome of a believer because he did not allow the negative consequences to shake his belief. Religion/NAP...are completely divorced from the consequences. For example, a true believer of the NAP would not steal a loaf of bread from a millionaire in order to save the life of a starving child. Why? Because even though the consequences would be beneficial...it would not be "moral" to do so.

    Here are a few passages on consequentialism (economics) vs deontology (religion/NAP). Carefully read them over...

    The short version...

    I generally prefer consequentialist arguments. I think I understand economics better than I understand moral philosophy, and possibly better than anyone understands moral philosophy. - David Friedman
    The long version...

    I guess the first thing is that it offers arguments which don't require that people already share your religion...using the term "religion" broadly. That as far as I can tell, nobody, whether deontological libertarians or communists or anyone else really has a really convincing argument to show that their moral views are right. Many people believe that they do but I don't think that they do. Ayn Rand, at least, presented an argument. Ayn Rand claimed in effect to have defeated David Hume's is ought problem. Hume argued that you couldn't derive on ought from an is. I have a discussion up on my webpage of the holes in Rand's arguments. As far as I can tell she simply didn't do it. I don't think it can be done as far as I know. So in order to persuade people by a natural rights argument there has to be some reason why they believe in natural rights to start with because you don't have any good arguments to show that they ought to believe it. Whereas my argument...it claims to show...it hopefully shows...that my system would be better in terms of the value that almost everybody already has. So I'm really saying if you regard natural rights to be really important...well look...in my system rights will rarely be violated. If you regard people being happy and being healthy and living long lives...look in my society people will be in effect wealthier than in societies with governments, therefore you should like the results of those things...and so forth and so on. So I think that I have an argument which does depend on convincing people that economics is relevant to human behavior but doesn't depend on convincing them of your particular right and wrong beliefs. - David Friedman
    An older version...

    That which has no existence cannot be destroyed — that which cannot be destroyed cannot require anything to preserve it from destruction. Natural rights is simple nonsense: natural and imprescriptible rights, rhetorical nonsense — nonsense upon stilts. - Jeremy Bentham

  • #5

    Default

    I read a great article this morning over at Mises: http://mises.org/daily/6264/Liberty-...-Brief-History

    Quote Originally Posted by Herbener
    Like us, our forerunners labored to advance pro-liberty ideology during dark days when liberty had been eclipsed by state power. Their strategy involved building independent institutions. Christopher Dawson, in his book The Crisis of Western Education, has demonstrated that the intellectual movements of the Renaissance and the Enlightenment developed outside the state. Dawson wrote,

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawson
    In England and the United States the traditional relation of church and school and the medieval system of corporative independence still survived in spite of the attacks of educational and political reformers. The abuses of the old system and the neglect of primary education were certainly no less flagrant in England than they were on the Continent. But the strength of the voluntary principle and the lack of a centralized authoritarian state caused the reforming movement in England to follow and independent course and to create its own organizations and institutions.[26]
    To restore liberty in our age, we must build genuinely private enterprises and independent educational institutions. Through organizations like the Mises Institute, we can do our part in the 21st century in rolling back the tide of the collectivist state built up in the 20th century, as our forerunners did in rolling back royal absolutism in the 18th century. We must not repeat their mistakes. This time our pro-liberty ideology must embrace its logical implications and reject the state, root and branch. Only then can the potential of life, liberty, and property be realized in the flourishing of the entire human race.
    This helped me to focus my objection to your philosophy to a single point, namely, that believers in Pragmatarianism must hold that Liberty is the result of actions by the govt. If Pragmatarianism were to be recast as individuals freely choosing between independent institutions, I would have no objection to it.

    BTW, Why use Wiki when we have direct access to the source at Mises? Seems counterproductive to refer people to Wiki rather than the definitive Mises.

  • #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xerographica View Post
    It should be obvious that demonstrated preference is important to Rothbard's argument. Yet, I just created the Wikipedia entry for demonstrated preference. Rothbard's followers should have created and developed that entry a long time ago. That they have not done so is irrefutable proof that they are lost in the wilderness. Developing Rothbard's economic argument just wasn't a priority for his followers. Instead, they put all their eggs in his non-aggression principle basket. This principle of theirs trumps the need to understand economics...opportunity cost concept, partial knowledge and so on. This means that they have no idea how markets truly work. Therefore, they are advocating a religion...not economics.

    Rothbard, however, promoted both. Let's ignore his religion and focus on his economics.
    So, because neither Rothbard nor his followers bothered to create a Wiki entry, Rothbard is running a cult. Therefore, because this is a cult, their belief that things are done with less corruption and other inefficiencies by the private sector than by government is null and void, and we should all jump on with your selective taxation theory which we have poked enough holes in elsewhere on this forum to put off even a swiss cheese buyer.

    Are you serious?

    I hope someone checks that Wiki entry...
    Quote Originally Posted by Will Rogers View Post
    If we ever pass out as a great nation we ought to put on our tombstone, 'America died from a delusion that she has moral leadership.'

  • #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Len Larson View Post
    This helped me to focus my objection to your philosophy to a single point, namely, that believers in Pragmatarianism must hold that Liberty is the result of actions by the govt. If Pragmatarianism were to be recast as individuals freely choosing between independent institutions, I would have no objection to it.
    Liberty is not the result of actions by the government? You mean that when the government protects the environment it's not protecting my liberty? Can you list all the actions of government? Would you say that all those actions benefit or harm you equally? Can you list all the actions of the private sector? Would you say that all those actions benefit or harm you equally?

    Markets give us the freedom to support the actions that benefit us and protest the actions that do not. What is the result? You're surrounded by the result. You're surrounded by products/services that benefit you.

    To restore liberty in our age, we must build genuinely private enterprises and independent educational institutions.
    Nothing is stopping us from building private institutions. Nobody is stopping you from setting up your private schools or your private security agencies or your private courts. However, we are prevented from distributing our taxes to reflect the effectiveness of these private organizations. If taxpayers could directly allocate their taxes...then why would they give their taxes to public courts if private courts were adequately meeting the demand for impartial justice?

    Through organizations like the Mises Institute, we can do our part in the 21st century in rolling back the tide of the collectivist state built up in the 20th century, as our forerunners did in rolling back royal absolutism in the 18th century. We must not repeat their mistakes. This time our pro-liberty ideology must embrace its logical implications and reject the state, root and branch. Only then can the potential of life, liberty, and property be realized in the flourishing of the entire human race.
    This is complete nonsense. We live in a democracy...so it's absurd to reject the state. What we need to reject are the beliefs that prevent taxpayers from directly allocating their taxes. Have you asked anybody whether taxpayers should be given the option to directly allocate their taxes? Chances are extremely good that their response will reflect one thing...economic ignorance. Who do we blame for economic ignorance? The state? No...the state is merely a reflection of economic ignorance. The people who bear the responsibility for economic ignorance are the people who have economic knowledge. Why are they failing to "sell" their economic knowledge?

    It's obvious. The Mises Institute bundles their economic knowledge together with religion. Do you think the average person wants to be forced to "buy" both products? I sure don't. I grew up being forced fed religion. I rejected religion when I was 11 and I still have absolutely no interest in listening to sermons on morality. That's exactly why as a pragmatarian I only "sell" economic knowledge.

    In fact, the idea of bundling...also referred to as tying...isn't just a problem with the Mises Institute...it's the very problem with our government. When we pay taxes we're forced to pay for a bundle of public goods that does not reflect our actual preferences. Do most people have a preference for some public goods? There's no doubt of this. That's why our goal should be to help them understand that we're all better if they have the freedom to choose exactly which public goods they help fund.

    Liberals nearly unanimously support the idea of ethical consumerism...but there is no ethical consumerism if you can't choose which goods you consume. Therefore, we just need to help liberals understand why ethical consumerism in the public sector is just as important as ethical consumerism in the private sector.

    Quote Originally Posted by Len Larson View Post
    BTW, Why use Wiki when we have direct access to the source at Mises? Seems counterproductive to refer people to Wiki rather than the definitive Mises.
    We don't do the large bulk of referring...Google does. What happens when people search for ethical consumerism? They will discover that the first result is the Wikipedia entry for ethical consumerism. And what happens when they read the Wikipedia entry on ethical consumerism?

    1. They will see the link to dollar voting...which explains an economic concept developed by Mises.
    2. They will read the section on tax choice.

    Why would I want people to use Wikipedia to learn about tax choice when they could just use my blog? Because the more places that they can learn about tax choice the greater the chances that they will stumble upon one of these places. I want people to stumble upon these places because I want them to learn about economics.

  • #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    So, because neither Rothbard nor his followers bothered to create a Wiki entry, Rothbard is running a cult.
    Yes, Rothbard really really should have created a Wikipedia entry for demonstrated preference. Are you serious? Have you even ever tried to teach an old person how to use the mouse?

    Like I made perfectly clear in my post...Rothbard promoted both religion and economics. Unfortunately, his followers have primarily focused on his religion. What's my evidence? Compare the Wikipedia entries on demonstrated preference and the non-aggression principle.

    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Therefore, because this is a cult, their belief that things are done with less corruption and other inefficiencies by the private sector than by government is null and void, and we should all jump on with your selective taxation theory which we have poked enough holes in elsewhere on this forum to put off even a swiss cheese buyer.
    If the followers of Rothbard truly care about corruption and government inefficiency then how could they possibly reject pragmatarianism? Obviously that's not all they care about. They reject pragmatarianism because pragmatarianism does not advocate their religion. If it advocated their religion then it would be their religion. But it's not their religion...which is why people who aren't interested in religion are more likely to accept it. Does pragmatarianism force people to give up their religion? How could it? It says absolutely nothing about religion. All it says is that taxpayers can spend their taxes in the public sector better than congress can. Is this true?

    If you believe in getting rid of the government then obviously you have to believe its true. But if you advocate getting rid of the government for religious rather than economic reasons...then you won't understand the economic benefits of creating a market in the public sector. And given that I'm the one who created the Wikipedia entry for demonstrated preference...I take it to be a fact that the large majority of Rothbard's followers do not understand the economic benefits of creating a market in the public sector.

    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Are you serious?
    Of course

    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    I hope someone checks that Wiki entry...
    Yeah, me too. That's why I created it. But the fact that you need someone else to check that Wiki entry...rather than just checking it yourself...is even more proof that the vast majority of Rothbard's followers haven't bothered to learn his economic arguments.

  • #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xerographica View Post
    Like I made perfectly clear in my post...Rothbard promoted both religion and economics.
    Yes, but everyone does. Because you can't divorce economics from ethics.

  • #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    Yes, but everyone does. Because you can't divorce economics from ethics.
    Eh, well. I mean...you looked over my entire post and felt that this was where you could make the greatest contribution. If taxpayers were allowed to directly allocate their taxes...then they'd look over the entire public sector and make a decision regarding where their taxes could make the greatest contribution. This is simply "profit" (gain > loss) seeking behavior.

    What's a god? A god is an entity that you make a sacrifice to in exchange for a blessing that's greater than your sacrifice. How's that any different from any other exchange? It's not fundamentally different. It's simply "profit" (gain > loss) seeking behavior.

    So in essence...the economics that we support is merely another way of describing the benefits of religious tolerance. From this perspective...it's impossible to separate the church and state. All we can do is agree on the "gods" that we all benefit from worshiping and then implement religious tolerance. You give your taxes (sacrifice) to the DoD (your god) and I'll give my taxes (sacrifice) to the EPA (my god).

  • Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •