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Thread: Israel calls up 75000 reserves for invasion. Lieberman says Israel not interested in peace

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    Default Israel calls up 75000 reserves for invasion. Lieberman says Israel not interested in peace

    Israeli Cabinet Calls Up 75,000 Reservists as Gaza Invasion Looms
    Last Ditch Effort to De-Escalate Conflict as Israel Spurns Ceasefire
    http://news.antiwar.com/2012/11/16/i...nvasion-looms/
    Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman insisted Israel isn’t interested in a ceasefire right now because he believes it would only last for a couple of weeks anyhow, while Defense Minister Ehud Barak has repeatedly said the fighting is only just beginning.
    How soon an invasion could begin is unclear, though Israel has been rushing tanks and armored vehicles to the Gaza border since yesterday. Depending on the size of the invasion it could happen in a matter of days.



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    Oh war is so terrible. So many little babies and kids will never live to grow and be happy. When will people start deciding to stop the wars?

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    Member asurfaholic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meatwasp View Post
    Oh war is so terrible. So many little babies and kids will never live to grow and be happy. When will people start deciding to stop the wars?
    My guess is never. Historically so proven, and biblically foretold. I feel my job is to turn as many hearts to love and peace as i can. As corny as it sounds....

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    I thought you were referring to Joe Lieberman when I first read the title. Ha ha.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agorism View Post
    "...Lieberman says Israel not interested in peace".....Israeli Cabinet Calls Up 75,000 Reservists as Gaza Invasion Looms
    Last Ditch Effort to De-Escalate Conflict as Israel Spurns Ceasefire
    http://news.antiwar.com/2012/11/16/i...nvasion-looms/
    Why lie? Your semantics is as bad as anything liberals put out to spin politics their way. Lieberman didn't say anything about not being interested in "peace".

    But I do know that Hamas is not interested in peace - going to the extreme of not recognizing Israel's right to exist. This "war" started with the U.N. decision to create the nation of Israel. Now the morality of this decision might be debated, but it is past history. Its creation being an established historical fact, whether rightly or wrongly, Israel has been defending itself since that beginning. Israel has no blame for this ongoing animosity, other than the fact that Israelis accepted the U.N.'s decision to create their nation. Given this opportunity, it is human nature to not refuse such an opportunity; and Israel will not now give up its sovereignty; and has the moral right to protect itself. Middle east war will be an ongoing monstrosity until Israel's existence is accepted by all sides and all sides are willing to sit down together and negotiate an acceptable peace. Hamas is not willing to do this.
    Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety - Benjamin Franklin

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    Oh fuck...
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Number19 View Post
    Why lie? Your semantics is as bad as anything liberals put out to spin politics their way. Lieberman didn't say anything about not being interested in "peace".

    But I do know that Hamas is not interested in peace - going to the extreme of not recognizing Israel's right to exist. This "war" started with the U.N. decision to create the nation of Israel. Now the morality of this decision might be debated, but it is past history. Its creation being an established historical fact, whether rightly or wrongly, Israel has been defending itself since that beginning. Israel has no blame for this ongoing animosity, other than the fact that Israelis accepted the U.N.'s decision to create their nation. Given this opportunity, it is human nature to not refuse such an opportunity; and Israel will not now give up its sovereignty; and has the moral right to protect itself. Middle east war will be an ongoing monstrosity until Israel's existence is accepted by all sides and all sides are willing to sit down together and negotiate an acceptable peace. Hamas is not willing to do this.
    Not interested in a "cease fire" means he's not interested in peace...

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    Quote Originally Posted by asurfaholic View Post
    My guess is never. Historically so proven, and biblically foretold. I feel my job is to turn as many hearts to love and peace as i can. As corny as it sounds....
    The bible doesn't hold the truth of the world, only a bunch of men in the past based in their experiences and illusions. As for peace, no it isn't corny. Far too many men out there don't know what peace means, they are dogs, and savages and they are every where.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Number19 View Post
    Why lie? Your semantics is as bad as anything liberals put out to spin politics their way. Lieberman didn't say anything about not being interested in "peace".

    But I do know that Hamas is not interested in peace - going to the extreme of not recognizing Israel's right to exist. This "war" started with the U.N. decision to create the nation of Israel. Now the morality of this decision might be debated, but it is past history. Its creation being an established historical fact, whether rightly or wrongly, Israel has been defending itself since that beginning. Israel has no blame for this ongoing animosity, other than the fact that Israelis accepted the U.N.'s decision to create their nation. Given this opportunity, it is human nature to not refuse such an opportunity; and Israel will not now give up its sovereignty; and has the moral right to protect itself. Middle east war will be an ongoing monstrosity until Israel's existence is accepted by all sides and all sides are willing to sit down together and negotiate an acceptable peace. Hamas is not willing to do this.
    So, how many years must pass between forcefully taking something and it being considered rightfully yours? When the generation passes that you took it from, or when you have the U.N and U.S approval? Or when all of those stolen from finally find a new home? Or when you stop taking more from them?

    edit: Or, when those that you stole from finally admit defeat and recognize your right to have done so?
    Last edited by ClydeCoulter; 11-18-2012 at 08:02 AM.

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    Israel has a right to exist. I take no issue with that. But, I do take issue when they keep expanding out beyond what they were initially given and the way in which they do it. If they want additional land, they should try to buy it.

    But, in this latest deal, Israel has every right to defend herself. Hamas was and is bombing them. It doesn't look like Hamas is very interested in peace, either.
    “I have many friends in the libertarian movement who look down on those of us who get involved in political activity,”
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agorism View Post
    Not interested in a "cease fire" means he's not interested in peace...
    Do you honestly think that's fair? What the man said was this.

    Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman insisted Israel isn’t interested in a ceasefire right now because he believes it would only last for a couple of weeks
    In other words, he is saying that Hamas is not interested in peace and would start bombing Israel again in just a couple of weeks.
    “I have many friends in the libertarian movement who look down on those of us who get involved in political activity,”
    he acknowledged, but "eventually, if you want to bring about changes … what you have to do is participate in political
    action.
    ” -- Ron Paul


    "We do have some differences and our approaches will be different, but that makes him his own person. I mean why should he [Rand] be a clone and do everything and think just exactly as I have. I think it's an opportunity to be independent minded. We are about 99% the same on issues." "People Try To Drive Wedges Between Rand And Me." --Ron Paul

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=pB5JgzBVHN0

    The Property Basis of Rights

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    Member paulbot24's Avatar
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    Should the fact that Lieberman is not interested in peace with Islamists or Palestinians be a surprise?
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    I guess I am just tired of so many taking sides in these fights. They have always fought in the Middle East and they always will. And those fights don't always involve Israel.

    We are non-interventionists. To me, that means to mind our own business and to get our own house in order.
    “I have many friends in the libertarian movement who look down on those of us who get involved in political activity,”
    he acknowledged, but "eventually, if you want to bring about changes … what you have to do is participate in political
    action.
    ” -- Ron Paul


    "We do have some differences and our approaches will be different, but that makes him his own person. I mean why should he [Rand] be a clone and do everything and think just exactly as I have. I think it's an opportunity to be independent minded. We are about 99% the same on issues." "People Try To Drive Wedges Between Rand And Me." --Ron Paul

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    Well said LibertyEagle. Libertarianism 101. Let's just worry about cleaning up our own house. Very well said.
    Last edited by paulbot24; 11-18-2012 at 08:31 AM.
    "Perfect safety is not the purpose of government." - Ron Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by brushfire View Post
    "I was in the rain forest once, and it rained on me..."
    Quote Originally Posted by Carson View Post
    Ron Paul suggested a very good first step to the process of restoring sound money... It was beautiful. It left them all standing with their fiats out.
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    'Excuse us, we'll be leaving now. Oh, and you don't mind if we just steal this Constitution before we go? You @#$%s aren't using it anyway...'

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    Okay Palestinians, you must "finally admit defeat and recognize the right of your oppressors to exist and to have done so at your expense, or else." /sarc

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    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    To me, that means to mind our own business and to get our own house in order.
    Something about a "plank in the eye"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Number19 View Post
    Why lie? Your semantics is as bad as anything liberals put out to spin politics their way. Lieberman didn't say anything about not being interested in "peace".

    But I do know that Hamas is not interested in peace - going to the extreme of not recognizing Israel's right to exist. This "war" started with the U.N. decision to create the nation of Israel. Now the morality of this decision might be debated, but it is past history. Its creation being an established historical fact, whether rightly or wrongly, Israel has been defending itself since that beginning. Israel has no blame for this ongoing animosity, other than the fact that Israelis accepted the U.N.'s decision to create their nation. Given this opportunity, it is human nature to not refuse such an opportunity; and Israel will not now give up its sovereignty; and has the moral right to protect itself. Middle east war will be an ongoing monstrosity until Israel's existence is accepted by all sides and all sides are willing to sit down together and negotiate an acceptable peace. Hamas is not willing to do this.
    I've done a complete 180 on Israel over the years. I no longer believe anything their government says.

    Let me know when they give the Golan Heights back. Until then, I'm going to believe that this is nothing but another land grab by Israel. Occupation results in terrorism. The Nazis didn't hesitate to quash the Jewish rebellions in the ghettos. The answer, sadly, will be genocide, with the US cheering it on.

    And while it would be nice to be able to ignore all the drama in the Middle East, it isn't possible to pretend the rest of the GOP is doing the same.
    Last edited by angelatc; 11-18-2012 at 09:46 AM.
    .[QUOTE]"Every great new thought was opposed. Every great new invention was denounced. The first motor was considered foolish. The airplane was considered impossible. The power loom was considered vicious. Anesthesia was considered sinful. But the men of unborrowed vision went ahead. They fought, they suffered and they paid. But they won." - Ayn Rand, The Fountainhead[/QUOTE]
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    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Israel has a right to exist. I take no issue with that.
    I do. Perhaps this is just semantics, but I don't believe Israel has a "right" to exist. Neither does the US or any other goverment. I believe the people in a geographic location have a right to create their own form of government but that doesn't mean the govt entity has any such right as the people still have the right to abolish that which they created.

    And why is Israel the only country you ever hear about this "right to exist"? I can't ever recall hearing that phrase about any other country.
    Last edited by specsaregood; 11-18-2012 at 09:52 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    There would be riots in the streets, if boobus gave one shit about his honor.
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    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    I do. Perhaps this is just semantics, but I don't believe Israel has a "right" to exist. Neither does the US or any other goverment. I believe the people in a geographic location have a right to create their own form of government but that doesn't mean the govt entity has any such right as the people still have the right to abolish that which they created.

    And why is Israel the only country you ever hear about this "right to exist"? I can't ever recall hearing that phrase about any other country.
    Specs, I see your point and actually agree with what you are saying, but what I am talking about has to do with what I hear so many saying when they say that Israel shouldn't even be there. I don't think it is any of our business whether Israel is there or not.
    “I have many friends in the libertarian movement who look down on those of us who get involved in political activity,”
    he acknowledged, but "eventually, if you want to bring about changes … what you have to do is participate in political
    action.
    ” -- Ron Paul


    "We do have some differences and our approaches will be different, but that makes him his own person. I mean why should he [Rand] be a clone and do everything and think just exactly as I have. I think it's an opportunity to be independent minded. We are about 99% the same on issues." "People Try To Drive Wedges Between Rand And Me." --Ron Paul

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=pB5JgzBVHN0

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    JFKIII, there are plenty of videos out there on both sides of this thing and just because something is in a video, believe it or not, doesn't make it factual.
    “I have many friends in the libertarian movement who look down on those of us who get involved in political activity,”
    he acknowledged, but "eventually, if you want to bring about changes … what you have to do is participate in political
    action.
    ” -- Ron Paul


    "We do have some differences and our approaches will be different, but that makes him his own person. I mean why should he [Rand] be a clone and do everything and think just exactly as I have. I think it's an opportunity to be independent minded. We are about 99% the same on issues." "People Try To Drive Wedges Between Rand And Me." --Ron Paul

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=pB5JgzBVHN0

    The Property Basis of Rights

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    Lone Coyote ClydeCoulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Specs, I see your point and actually agree with what you are saying, but what I am talking about has to do with what I hear so many saying when they say that Israel shouldn't even be there. I don't think it is any of our business whether Israel is there or not.
    They only exist because we and GB made it so and keep it so. If it were created by mutual agreement between those that lived there, that would be another story.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    I do. Perhaps this is just semantics, but I don't believe Israel has a "right" to exist. Neither does the US or any other goverment. I believe the people in a geographic location have a right to create their own form of government but that doesn't mean the govt entity has any such right as the people still have the right to abolish that which they created.

    And why is Israel the only country you ever hear about this "right to exist"? I can't ever recall hearing that phrase about any other country.
    This is the problem with believing in some government or limited government as some here think.

    Once you get caught up in that argument, then various governments have the right to exist, and therefor the right to defend or kill others, etc etc

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    Hamas fires rockets from next to schools and hospitals which puts Israel in a tough position.

    Military invasion is the more humane response rather than returning rockets to where they came from.

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    I think they want the ground invasion so they can kill all the Hamas leadership and diplomats so they have no one to be able to go to the UN with in order to pursue statehood.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ClydeCoulter View Post
    They only exist because we and GB made it so and keep it so. If it were created by mutual agreement between those that lived there, that would be another story.
    I understand that, but it is there now. If they can keep it, fine. If they cannot, that is fine too. Our government should not be involved.
    “I have many friends in the libertarian movement who look down on those of us who get involved in political activity,”
    he acknowledged, but "eventually, if you want to bring about changes … what you have to do is participate in political
    action.
    ” -- Ron Paul


    "We do have some differences and our approaches will be different, but that makes him his own person. I mean why should he [Rand] be a clone and do everything and think just exactly as I have. I think it's an opportunity to be independent minded. We are about 99% the same on issues." "People Try To Drive Wedges Between Rand And Me." --Ron Paul

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=pB5JgzBVHN0

    The Property Basis of Rights

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agorism View Post
    This is the problem with believing in some government or limited government as some here think.

    Once you get caught up in that argument, then various governments have the right to exist, and therefor the right to defend or kill others, etc etc
    What the hell are you talking about?
    “I have many friends in the libertarian movement who look down on those of us who get involved in political activity,”
    he acknowledged, but "eventually, if you want to bring about changes … what you have to do is participate in political
    action.
    ” -- Ron Paul


    "We do have some differences and our approaches will be different, but that makes him his own person. I mean why should he [Rand] be a clone and do everything and think just exactly as I have. I think it's an opportunity to be independent minded. We are about 99% the same on issues." "People Try To Drive Wedges Between Rand And Me." --Ron Paul

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=pB5JgzBVHN0

    The Property Basis of Rights

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    My heart aches for people on both sides of this idiocy. I always hope that one day the people of the world will realize they have no reason to hate each other and instead are being manipulated into fear and anger and hatred that fills them with a thirst for blood that never seems to be quenched. I guess more people will have to die for this wisdom to be learned by the bulk of humanity.
    "Governor, if I had foreseen the use those people
    designed to make of their victory,
    there would have been no surrender at
    Appomattox Courthouse; no sir, not by me.
    Had I foreseen these results of subjugation,
    I would have preferred to die at Appomattox
    with my brave men, my sword in my right hand." - Robert E. Lee to Governor Fletcher S. Stockdale (D-Texas), 1870


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    Lone Coyote ClydeCoulter's Avatar
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    I would like to see a poll of how many in the palestinian land area (so called Israel also) would like to abolish the state of Israel and how many not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    I understand that, but it is there now. If they can keep it, fine. If they cannot, that is fine too. Our government should not be involved.
    Can we disarm Israel before we get out of it (what we have given them)?

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