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Thread: TYT Cenk on Israel offensive

  1. #61

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    Israel has done nothing wrong here. They're simply defending their own country after an attack by Hamas.
    1 Peter 1: 24-25

    For, "All people are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field; the grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of the Lord endures forever."



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  3. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    Israel has done nothing wrong here. They're simply defending their own country after an attack by Hamas.
    Killing children isn't wrong?

    Israels existence violates Palestinian rights.

  4. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muwahid View Post
    Killing children isn't wrong?

    Israels existence violates Palestinian rights.
    They didn't start the conflict. They fired back after Hamas launched rockets into Israel. Was Israel just supposed to sit back and take it and do nothing?
    1 Peter 1: 24-25

    For, "All people are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field; the grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of the Lord endures forever."

  5. #64

  6. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    They didn't start the conflict.
    lol
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  7. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    They didn't start the conflict. They fired back after Hamas launched rockets into Israel. Was Israel just supposed to sit back and take it and do nothing?
    Killing children is wrong, I don't care who does it or if it is intentional or not it is wrong. Israel is not innocent at all in fact quite the opposite, it is evil.
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  8. #67
    Site Staff - Moderator Brian4Liberty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    They didn't start the conflict. They fired back after Hamas launched rockets into Israel. Was Israel just supposed to sit back and take it and do nothing?
    A full-blown incursion and bombing runs with innocent casualties doesn't help a whole lot.

    The essential problem is how does Israel stop these rocket attacks? Who is actually launching them? Who is in control? Is Hamas directing every single rocket shooting fool out there, or are they doing it on their own? The US was in control of Iraq and Afghanistan, yet people still attacked innocents constantly. Who do you blame? Does the buck stop at Bush or Obama for allowing terrorism to occur under their watch? Now apply that to Gaza. Who do you blame? Is there one person that could be assassinated to stop the rockets? Probably not. Is there a certain number of people who could be killed to stop it? Probably not. That leads to the logical conclusion that something else needs to be tried.
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  9. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanK22 View Post
    It's my understanding that the rockets launched from Gaza aren't meant to hit specific targets; if that's the case then it is terrorism. It's also my understanding that when Israel launches a strike it is against specific targets, ie. missile warehouse, enemy combatant, rocket launch sites, hospitals, schools, Red Cross sites, food/water/supply lines into Gaza, power plants, roads. Where am I wrong?
    You're not wrong. You just left out the targets that violate international laws and those that directly impact and target civilians. I added and bolded them above.
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  10. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by puppetmaster View Post
    Killing children is wrong, I don't care who does it or if it is intentional or not it is wrong. Israel is not innocent at all in fact quite the opposite, it is evil.
    ...Never mind.
    Last edited by Traditional Conservative; 11-16-2012 at 11:14 PM.
    1 Peter 1: 24-25

    For, "All people are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field; the grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of the Lord endures forever."

  11. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    Hating Israel has absolutely nothing to do with supporting a non interventionist foreign policy. I don't like it when people claim that Ron Paul supporters are anti semites, because many of us aren't. Many of us are simply opposed to entangling alliances and foreign aid. Unfortunately, many Ron Paul supporters take it much farther than that and continually spout anti semetic rhetoric. It's unfortunate that these people make the rest of us look bad.
    You can be a rational non-anti-semite and not support Israel's government.

    I don't make anyone look bad, Israel's gov't actions make them look bad, because they are bad.

    I do not support our current government, nor do I support Israel's, which is ridiculously intertwined with our own. And another thing for you who yell "anti-semite!" at those of us who try desperately to end this god damned conflict with ethical solutions--fuck you. I was on the side of the Jews when they were oppressed by the Germans, and I'm on the side of the Palestinians when they are oppressed by the Israelis.

    It's called philosophical consistency. And your name calling is a bunch of bullshit. I am not anti-anyone, except jackasses who try to force their bullshit down other people's throats, people who kill, people who steal, people who terrorize, people who torture. If it makes me an anti-semite to be opposed to that, then I'll take the title with honors.
    Those who want liberty must organize as effectively as those who want tyranny. -- Iyad el Baghdadi

  12. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by amy31416 View Post
    You can be a rational non-anti-semite and not support Israel's government.

    I don't make anyone look bad, Israel's gov't actions make them look bad, because they are bad.

    I do not support our current government, nor do I support Israel's, which is ridiculously intertwined with our own. And another thing for you who yell "anti-semite!" at those of us who try desperately to end this god damned conflict with ethical solutions--fuck you. I was on the side of the Jews when they were oppressed by the Germans, and I'm on the side of the Palestinians when they are oppressed by the Israelis.

    It's called philosophical consistency. And your name calling is a bunch of bullshit. I am not anti-anyone, except jackasses who try to force their bullshit down other people's throats, people who kill, people who steal, people who terrorize, people who torture. If it makes me an anti-semite to be opposed to that, then I'll take the title with honors.
    I pray for the day that people finally stand up to these corrupt governments and abolish them.......I am so ready
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it."
    James Madison

    "It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." - Samuel Adams



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  13. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by amy31416 View Post
    You can be a rational non-anti-semite and not support Israel's government.

    I don't make anyone look bad, Israel's gov't actions make them look bad, because they are bad.

    I do not support our current government, nor do I support Israel's, which is ridiculously intertwined with our own. And another thing for you who yell "anti-semite!" at those of us who try desperately to end this god damned conflict with ethical solutions--fuck you. I was on the side of the Jews when they were oppressed by the Germans, and I'm on the side of the Palestinians when they are oppressed by the Israelis.

    It's called philosophical consistency. And your name calling is a bunch of bullshit. I am not anti-anyone, except jackasses who try to force their bullshit down other people's throats, people who kill, people who steal, people who terrorize, people who torture. If it makes me an anti-semite to be opposed to that, then I'll take the title with honors.
    Congratulations. You get to keep the title as the nastiest person on Ron Paul Forums.
    1 Peter 1: 24-25

    For, "All people are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field; the grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of the Lord endures forever."

  14. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    Congratulations. You get to keep the title as the nastiest person on Ron Paul Forums.
    And you get to keep the title of "most supportive of killing innocent people" on the forum

    I'll keep mine over yours anyday.

    Just curious--what was it that pissed you off? That I'm not actually an anti-semite?
    Those who want liberty must organize as effectively as those who want tyranny. -- Iyad el Baghdadi

  15. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by amy31416 View Post
    Just curious--what was it that pissed you off? That I'm not actually an anti-semite?
    The f*ck you comment. I don't ever curse at anyone at these forums, or anyone period. I didn't call you an anti semite either. I wasn't speaking to you. I simply made a general statement.
    1 Peter 1: 24-25

    For, "All people are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field; the grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of the Lord endures forever."

  16. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    The f*ck you comment. I don't ever curse at anyone at these forums, or anyone period. I didn't call you an anti semite either. I wasn't speaking to you. I simply made a general statement.
    Oh. So I should assume that you're talking to some other nameless person who is being critical of Israel's gov't. By making a "general statement" rather than referring to a specific person--you were referring to me and a lot of other people. If you can dish it out--you ought to be able to take it.

    And if cursing bothers you so much, the internet isn't for you. And it is appropriate for me to curse at people who imply that I'm racist when I am not. At least I don't support wanton killing, theft and lies as you seemingly do--at least in this case.

    I can't understand how someone is so offended by a "fuck you" when they are totally okay with killing innocent people.
    Those who want liberty must organize as effectively as those who want tyranny. -- Iyad el Baghdadi

  17. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    They didn't start the conflict. They fired back after Hamas launched rockets into Israel. Was Israel just supposed to sit back and take it and do nothing?
    Knowing the media and propaganda I'm surprised you think the narrative of who started it is true. I can show you ample proof hamas not only plays ball with Israel but also does her favors in order to stay in politics, such as arresting members of small resistance groups.

    More times than not if a rocket landed in Israel it wasn't from hamas unless they're retaliating.

    And like I said before their existence violated palestinians rights. If Texas was occupied by china fifty years from now and oppressed Americans and stole their land would you say Texans have a moral right to fight the occupation.

    Israel didn't start it, sounds like an oxymoron.

    If you support Israel for personal reasons fair game. They are your opinions. But to try to defend their blatantly wrong actions seems silly.

  18. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    The f*ck you comment. I don't ever curse at anyone at these forums, or anyone period. I didn't call you an anti semite either. I wasn't speaking to you. I simply made a general statement.
    Personal digs are always veiled as general statements on moderated forums. It's an old troll trick.* I wont make mine general though, you have to be an Islamaphobe to not see the injustices of Israel.



    *Did you see that, general statement, not directed at you!

  19. #78

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    See the link in my sig for a well thought out argument on this topic. No anti-semitism or hate, just logic.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

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    No anti-semitism, just logic.

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  20. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    Why does Israel get to make the rules and demands?
    It's because we give them $3B a year in awesome death machines.
    I can't wait until America doesn't have any more cookies to give them.
    You are not knowledgeable. You need to read more.

    The Quartet are the United Nations, the United States, the European Union, and Russia.

    Why does Israel have demands?

    Because the war is not about a Palestinian statehood or anything (only a small percentage of people are nationalist rest are Islamist) This war is a religious war. The muslims support the Palestinians because its their religious duty. I live in the United Arab Emirates and many Islamic organizations here send money to Hamas because of 'Jerusalem', they consider it as the Holy Site and consider the Jews as apes and pigs and they believe that the Jews must be killed to usher in their Islamic Messiah.

    When Ehud Olmert was Prime Minister, he said that Israel will pull out of every Palestinian land with swaps on both sides. with Jerusalem under the U.N, but Abbas said No because he wanted Jerusalem in Islamic hands.

  21. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    In the original 1947 UN partition plan, The UN gave about 55% of the land to about 31% of the people (the Jews), and this 31% only actually owned 6% of the land which was purchased legitimately. This is what caused the first war, because the Arabs rejected the plan.

    And rightfully so. Too bad they lost.
    In 2011, Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas stated that the Arab rejection of the partition plan was a mistake he hoped to rectify.

  22. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by misean View Post
    I know it's unpopular here, but I side with Israel in these disputes. That's Israel's land. They continually get attacked by racists. Israel isn't the instigator. If people stopped blowing themselves up and attacking Israel, there would be no retaliation. Does anyone really believe that Israel is going out of its way to take over the Middle East?

    That said, I really don't want the US entangling in these conflicts.
    "if people would stop blowing themselves up..."

    As if it were that simple. Unbelievable.
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  23. #82

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    "To understand the Middle East conflict and especially what's going on in Israel, you must understand that it is a blood-feud between two brothers that goes back 5000 years"
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  24. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesiv1 View Post
    "To understand the Middle East conflict and especially what's going on in Israel, you must understand that it is a blood-feud between two brothers that goes back 5000 years"
    -- Billy Graham
    That might me true if Zionists were related to Abraham.
    They are NOT for the most part.

    Khazars are not related. (they are decedents of Japheth) And many true Jews reject Zionism outright and oppose the State of Israel and it's policies.

    There is a conflict between God and Satan though.
    Last edited by pcosmar; 11-17-2012 at 08:02 AM.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
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  25. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by amy31416 View Post
    I can't understand how someone is so offended by a "fuck you" when they are totally okay with killing innocent people.
    What evidence do you have that they killed innocent people on purpose? What exactly is Israel supposed to do when Hamas starts firing rockets at them? Just sit back and take it and allow their citizens to be killed?
    1 Peter 1: 24-25

    For, "All people are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field; the grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of the Lord endures forever."

  26. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    I wont make mine general though, you have to be an Islamaphobe to not see the injustices of Israel.
    I'm not an Islamaphobe, but I'm also not anti Israel. Hating Israel is not part of supporting a non interventionist foreign policy. I support closing down all of our foreign bases, ending all foreign aid, opposing pre-emptive war, etc. But I also support the right of Israel to defend itself.
    1 Peter 1: 24-25

    For, "All people are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field; the grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of the Lord endures forever."

  27. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    But I also support the right of Israel to defend itself.
    What "right" did they have when they were blowing up hotels?

    This started long before WWII,, long before the Nazi party was invented.

    Zionists were using terrorism to get their way from the start. right up to their demands for a state and continuing since.
    Last edited by pcosmar; 11-17-2012 at 08:22 AM.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  28. #87

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    Do ya'll realize that you're debating skirmishes in another country that our country shouldn't be involved with?

    It doesn't matter one whit to me who's right or who's wrong, what matters to me is why in the hell is our military involved with no declaration of war.

    This bullshit is being force fed to TV viewers as relevant to the US because of our "interests"....Yeah right!

    Oil is our interest and if war is necessary to secure our interest in oil then for Gods sake declare war, state the objectives and get on with it.

    Otherwise our military needs to come home and leave `em be.

  29. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post

    Otherwise our military needs to come home and leave `em be.
    That would be my first wish,,
    That was one of the reasons I supported Ron Paul,, because he would have gotten us out of it.

    That area is headed for a Cataclysmic War, and the Zionists are the main push behind it.
    They will drag the whole world into it.

    Sad and unfortunate on many levels..
    I will oppose it, though there seems no way to avoid it.

    I certainly will not support it nor the evil fucks that are pushing it.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  30. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    What evidence do you have that they killed innocent people on purpose? What exactly is Israel supposed to do when Hamas starts firing rockets at them? Just sit back and take it and allow their citizens to be killed?
    What was Israel supposed to do he threw a rock at an armored vehicle


  31. #90
    Site Staff - Moderator Brian4Liberty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muwahid View Post
    What was Israel supposed to do he threw a rock at an armored vehicle
    Out of all of the outrages that occur, that's a pretty lame attempt at generating an emotional reaction. People are dying. People are being beaten. People's homes are being stolen or destroyed. People are being unfairly imprisoned. That picture looks like a teenager getting a time out for being a bad boy.
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