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Thread: Gaza under attack by Israel

  1. #271

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    Quote Originally Posted by awake View Post
    Right to exist? Tell that to the generations of dead innocent men , women and children...Peace will happen when the US stops funding and blindly backing Israel. Strict non intervention.
    Which one's the jews killed by palestnians orthe palestinians killed by jews?

    THe US has to stop funding foreign government and military's, I agree there. However, that will not solve the problem...
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  3. #272
    Lone Coyote ClydeCoulter's Avatar
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    Off twitter https://twitter.com/RuwaydaMustafah/...51340074086401
    Interesting to note @Reuters usage of terminology in their Gaza coverage. Israelis 'Killed' but Palestinian children 'died'. Objective?

  4. #273

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    Quote Originally Posted by tsetsefly View Post
    Which one's the jews killed by palestnians orthe palestinians killed by jews?

    THe US has to stop funding foreign government and military's, I agree there. However, that will not solve the problem...
    True, that area has been in conflict for thousands of years. I believe it's because of it's location. For the longest time, the only way to go around the Mediterranean sea was to cross through that area. The only other way was to get on a boat and cross that way. I doubt the U.S. being not involved would change anything except the culpability of the taxpayers in the bloodshed that is happening over there.

  5. #274

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    Quote Originally Posted by tsetsefly View Post
    No one is disputing that.

    I asked what do you think the solution is?
    and if you think Israel has the right to exist?
    Solution? You mean like a magic wand that can be waved upon mankind and we all starting singing Kum Ba Ya? Sorry, I do not have such a solution. I believe in individual rights and responsibilities. It's a common belief system here. I find that keeping my own moral compass pointed in the right direction is quite a sizable undertaking. Add the responsibility to teach my children self-control, and well, I'm booked.

    I don't believe in the "rights" of any government. As I stated previously, I believe all individuals have the right to life. Governments are not individuals. Governments derive just power from the consent of the governed. I am not a citizen of Israel. It's not my call.
    In this world nothing is certain but death and taxes.

  6. #275

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    Quote Originally Posted by mac_hine View Post
    This video is being scrubbed from the internet. Watch it before it no longer exists.


    I watched a mirror of this earlier today which had close to 10,000 views. I was planning on posting it. Youtube removed it. Here is the link:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=CJ8yeZcgV3E
    regardless, such disproportionate violence against civilians is repulsive. I would share this on facebook, but I don't have the stomach to. Instead I use articles and videos that aren't graphic, but every once in a while people need to see for themselves the realities of war and american ignorance.

  7. #276

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    Quote Originally Posted by RockEnds View Post
    Solution? You mean like a magic wand that can be waved upon mankind and we all starting singing Kum Ba Ya? Sorry, I do not have such a solution. I believe in individual rights and responsibilities. It's a common belief system here. I find that keeping my own moral compass pointed in the right direction is quite a sizable undertaking. Add the responsibility to teach my children self-control, and well, I'm booked.

    I don't believe in the "rights" of any government. As I stated previously, I believe all individuals have the right to life. Governments are not individuals. Governments derive just power from the consent of the governed. I am not a citizen of Israel. It's not my call.
    Agree. So what government do you think most closely aligns with individual rights? Israel with freer economic policies, more tolerance of alternative lifestyles and religions or the islamofascist hamas government? Just look at how they treat people of other religions and murder political opponents...
    It would be great if Hamas would adopt a semblence of individual rights based platform or any middle east government, that will never happen in our lifetimes.

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  8. #277

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    http://reuters.livestation.com/demo

    Just watched the sunrise in Gaza

    Pretty uneventful but its a live feed from Israel-Gaza border... maybe we'll get a show? opcorn:

  9. #278

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    Quote Originally Posted by tsetsefly View Post
    Agree. So what government do you think most closely aligns with individual rights? Israel with freer economic policies, more tolerance of alternative lifestyles and religions or the islamofascist hamas government? Just look at how they treat people of other religions and murder political opponents...
    It would be great if Hamas would adopt a semblence of individual rights based platform or any middle east government, that will never happen in our lifetimes.
    Is that a real question?

    I very much dislike your taste in videos. It was already posted on another thread earlier this week. For a woman who prides herself on her opposition to collectivism, she certainly is collectivist.

    I like this video much better.




    And I thought we had this civilized vs savage conversation earlier.

    In this world nothing is certain but death and taxes.

  10. #279

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    Quote Originally Posted by tsetsefly View Post
    Agree. So what government do you think most closely aligns with individual rights? Israel with freer economic policies, more tolerance of alternative lifestyles and religions or the islamofascist hamas government? Just look at how they treat people of other religions and murder political opponents...
    It would be great if Hamas would adopt a semblence of individual rights based platform or any middle east government, that will never happen in our lifetimes.

    Ahahahahhahahahhaah, WHAT?!?!?

    Israel is an apartheid state. As I type this Israel is oppressing people for their culture and religion. What because they let gays dance around and parade they're more tolerable? They have children in their prisons!

    Atrocious hypocrisy. Honestly, look at the history of Palestine... Jews have it, they hate on Muslims and Christians, Christians had it, they killed Jews and Muslims, Muslims had it, they protected the rights of both religions, and we're called Islamofascists?? lmao.
    “I'm real, Ron, I'm real!” — Rick Santorum
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  11. #280

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    Found this beauty on facebook from a tea party page that was liked by one of my zionist israel-firster "friends". Where to start with these morons? http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...r&notif_t=like (link to the site's photo)





    sigh...
    Last edited by Shane Harris; 11-21-2012 at 02:56 PM.

  12. #281

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    True, that area has been in conflict for thousands of years.
    Where does this come from?
    Not picking on you Dr.3D,, but I have heard this often.

    Except for the wars of Empires,, and changing empires, that area is more peaceful than not.
    People of various religious faiths have lived together and peacefully coexisted. For the most part.

    Even as far back as the "Crusades",, which was just empire expansion under the guise of religion.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
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  13. #282
    Lone Coyote ClydeCoulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Harris View Post
    Found this beauty on facebook from a tea party page that was liked by one of my zionist israel-firster "friends". Where to start with these morons?

    sigh...

    (Images removed)
    Does noone ever read the Old Testement? God tells them to kill every man, woman, child and even all the cattle, everything alive... really?

  14. #283

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    Hamas. Noble freedom fighters......Yeah right

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/s...,6497236.story
    Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri hailed the explosion.

    "Hamas blesses the attack in Tel Aviv and sees it as a natural response to the Israeli massacres...in Gaza," he told Reuters. "Palestinian factions will resort to all means in order to protect our Palestinian civilians in the absence of a world effort to stop the Israeli aggression."
    Maybe next they can bomb a senior home and gloat about it.
    Last edited by AuH20; 11-21-2012 at 08:37 AM.
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  15. #284

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    This article poses questions other than the standard, loaded "Does Israel have the right to exist?" type.

    http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opi...831534612.html

    International law, the Gaza war, and Palestine's state of exception

    The large-scale military assault launched by Israel on Gaza, and the manner in which both Israeli and Palestinian forces are fighting this war, raise numerous red flags regarding large scale violations of human rights and international humanitarian law (IHL). Such violations have long characterised the Israeli-Palestinian conflict; yet despite post-Cold War improvements in the enforceability of international criminal law, in the Israeli-Palestinian context those who perpetrate human rights violations and war crimes seem largely immune to legal accountability.

    Certainly, international law offers no panacea for the death and destruction of war; nor does most media coverage of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict devote more than the scantiest attention to the human rights implications of such violence. International law does, however, provide the most important standard against which the conduct of opposing sides can be judged. Such judgments have political currency, if not during the heat of battle then later. As Gaza-based human rights campaigner Raji Sourani described it in the midst of the current violence, human rights is the "skin" to protect civilians from the all-out aggression of those who attack them.

    International law impacts the present war in Gaza in two key ways. One pertains to whether the violence deployed by each side complies with or violates IHL, in particular the Geneva Conventions of 1949 and their Additional Protocol I of 1977. The other, more complicated issue pertains to the legal status of Gaza and its relationship to Israel, which profoundly affects what kind of violence Israel can deploy there.

    Since the 1967 conquest of Gaza and the West Bank, Israel has asserted that the Geneva Conventions do not apply to these areas or govern Israel's conduct toward Palestinian inhabitants on several grounds, including that Palestinians are not a High Contracting Party (state signatory). However, the International Committee of the Red Cross, the official guardian and authoritative interpreter of IHL, has consistently maintained that the Fourth Geneva Convention, which governs militarily captured territories and their civilian population, is applicable. This view is endorsed by a vast preponderance of international legal opinion, including United Nations resolutions and the opinion of the International Court of Justice.

    (cont....)
    I haven't had time to read the whole article. I may face my own internal hostilities if I don't get myself to the kitchen sooner rather than later. However, if nothing else, it does pose questions worth asking.
    Last edited by RockEnds; 11-21-2012 at 08:51 AM.
    In this world nothing is certain but death and taxes.

  16. #285

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    Sure glad Israel is taking the high road on this, thanks to U.S. taxpayers, and the support of America Last groups like Christian orgs.

    ''its all bullshit, and none of its good for you''

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  17. #286

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Where does this come from?
    Not picking on you Dr.3D,, but I have heard this often.

    Except for the wars of Empires,, and changing empires, that area is more peaceful than not.
    People of various religious faiths have lived together and peacefully coexisted. For the most part.

    Even as far back as the "Crusades",, which was just empire expansion under the guise of religion.
    I think this article explains the situation far better than I can.
    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...arallel/1.html

  18. #287

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muwahid View Post
    Ahahahahhahahahhaah, WHAT?!?!?

    Israel is an apartheid state. As I type this Israel is oppressing people for their culture and religion. What because they let gays dance around and parade they're more tolerable? They have children in their prisons!

    Atrocious hypocrisy. Honestly, look at the history of Palestine... Jews have it, they hate on Muslims and Christians, Christians had it, they killed Jews and Muslims, Muslims had it, they protected the rights of both religions, and we're called Islamofascists?? lmao.
    SO basically:

    Jews have always been bad. Muslims always good, yup that sums up things pretty good especially with how tolerant modern day islamic nations are!
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  19. #288

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    Quote Originally Posted by tsetsefly View Post
    No one is disputing that.

    I asked what do you think the solution is?
    and if you think Israel has the right to exist?
    that's the best trick question, "right to exist" no country has a right to exist, there is no law, international or otherwise that declares or guarantees a country (or self proclaimed country) their "right to exist".

  20. #289

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Where does this come from?
    Not picking on you Dr.3D,, but I have heard this often.

    Except for the wars of Empires,, and changing empires, that area is more peaceful than not.
    People of various religious faiths have lived together and peacefully coexisted. For the most part.

    Even as far back as the "Crusades",, which was just empire expansion under the guise of religion.
    that's basically what he meant. for a duration of thousands of years, people have had conflicts there, maybe not continuously, just repeatedly in the same area.

  21. #290
    Lone Coyote ClydeCoulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tpoints View Post
    that's basically what he meant. for a duration of thousands of years, people have had conflicts there, maybe not continuously, just repeatedly in the same area.
    Mostly from outside agression?

    The argument I hear all the time is "infighting for thousands of years".

  22. #291

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tpoints View Post
    that's basically what he meant. for a duration of thousands of years, people have had conflicts there, maybe not continuously, just repeatedly in the same area.
    Give me a region in Euroazia and Africa that has not seen fighting for thousands of years.

  23. #292

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    Quote Originally Posted by Demigod View Post
    Give me a region in Euroazia and Africa that has not seen fighting for thousands of years.
    I trace my ancestry back to the ever peaceful Germans and Scots-Irish with more than a few border reiver surnames. Nothing to see there but peaceful coexistence.

    http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb....hil/#Question2

    /sarc
    In this world nothing is certain but death and taxes.

  24. #293

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    Quote Originally Posted by ClydeCoulter View Post
    Mostly from outside agression?

    The argument I hear all the time is "infighting for thousands of years".
    It is some of both.

    Again, I suggest you read this web page to understand what I've been talking about.
    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...arallel/1.html

  25. #294
    Member awake's Avatar
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    To the blind allegiance to Israel kool aid drinkers...


  26. #295

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    Quote Originally Posted by awake View Post
    To the blind allegiance to Israel kool aid drinkers...

    should be last word in this thread.

    close thread.

    +rep
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  27. #296
    Member awake's Avatar
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    Here is a thought experiment: Two men ; one has a lifetime get out of jail card no matter what he does; the other has no card at all. Do you think both men will act the same throughout life? Answer honestly...

    Israel has guaranteed US taxpayer funding and a US lifetime 'get out of jail card'. They are acting like 'little angles' with it.

    My unvarnished point: Any time there is any serous talk of peace or cutting Israel off there will be a "Hamas rocket"
    to stop it.

  28. #297

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    I think this article explains the situation far better than I can.
    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...arallel/1.html
    good article

  29. #298

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    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    When I was in Germany, my friend's child got all big-eyed when she saw a black person. My friend said there weren't many blacks in Germany, since the Nazi's. I had no idea! So I started reading, and found all the groups you listed, plus others (Jehovah's Witnesses come to mind) were also victims of the holocaust.

    I pointed that out to an evangelical once, ad was accused of lying. Because I am anti-semitic.

    It was unreal - like the fact that the Jews weren't the only persecuted group was somehow offensive to the Jews.

    I still don't get it.
    Welcome to the bizzarro world of Christian Zionism.

    Flashback: John Hagee Denies Christ as the Messiah.

    Knowledge will forever govern ignorance; and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives. -James Madison

  30. #299

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    Quote Originally Posted by ClydeCoulter View Post
    Mostly from outside agression?

    The argument I hear all the time is "infighting for thousands of years".
    I don't think if you were caught in the crossfire, you'd care where the aggression was coming from.

  31. #300

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    Quote Originally Posted by Demigod View Post
    Give me a region in Euroazia and Africa that has not seen fighting for thousands of years.
    Unless it was completely uninhabited, I can't.

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