Gaza under attack by Israel

[furface]

The Palestinians are ruthless murderers as are elements of the Mossad and the IDF.

Nice, bigoted logic. Actually somewhat of the reverse is true. The majority of "Israel," is complicit with ethnic cleansing & violent actions against Palestinians. I try to stay away from characterizing this as a religious issue, but unfortunately you can also say that the majority of Jews & all Zionist Christians hold similar views. There are certainly terrorist elements within Palestine, but "Israel" by definition is an apartheid, terrorist state.

Nobody on these forums has said anything like that.

You have a very short memory. I can recall dozens of threads where posters (trolls?) have said that Israel needs to be exempted from non-interventionism because Israel is "special." Some of the older posters here can verify that, and if it's important I can do the searches. The fact that it's less common these days suggests progress. Thank you for pointing it out.

Note - I tried to do a search on "Israel aid" here and the gave me an error. Possibly there is so much data that searching on such common terms is unpractical.

[A. Havnes]

In case you're interested, this guy is broadcasting a live audio feed from Gaza. I've had it on for the last hour or so and it is spooky. The sound of Israeli drones flying overhead never stops and you hear the occasional blast.

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/operation-pillar-of-cloud

Looks like the electricity is out in West Gaza...

[squarepusher]

The Hamas Charter calls for the destrution of Israel

http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/880818a.htm

[furface]

The Hamas Charter calls for the destrution of Israel

http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/880818a.htm

So what? Wouldn't you want to destroy the political entity that terrorized you and your family out of your home?

I personally support the destruction of Israel through non-violent means.

During negotiations Hamas has agreed to renounce violence, but has not agreed to recognize Israel as a legitimate state. Israel & Western states demand that Hamas does and would rather propagate more violence on this trivial point.

Even Shimon Peres admits that Israel stands on shaky historical ground. In a debate in Doha he mentioned something to the extent that you can't change history, basically admitting that Israel's history is problematic.

You got to be completely whacked to think that Israel's history is legitimate, even when comparing it to the US's shaky history with Native Americans. In that sense it's a matter of fighting for the very fundamentals of rationality to single Israel out as one of the most problematic entities in recent world history.

Anti-Zionism is a fight for logic & reason. It's a fight for using reason & rationality to settle things as opposed to political propaganda & shear violent force. It's an extremely important fight in that sense.

Here's the Doha statement I was talking about.

http://www.thedohadebates.com/debate...ode=transcript

AUDIENCE Q (F)
Hello, good evening. You have neither forgiven nor forgotten those who commit crimes against your people. How do you expect the Palestinians to forgive and forget the crimes you've committed and continue to commit against them?
SHIMON PERES
I am not making any account with the past. My eyes are set for the future. I think what happened, happened, and I think we don't have to return all the time to history for the simple reason that we cannot correct history. We can correct the future. So to forgive and forget is a good advice for everybody, if you can really provide for your children and our children a better future, and that is our preference.

Everybody just "forgive and forget." It's normally advice given by crooks to their victims. Israel certainly doesn't take that advice when hunting down former Nazis. Forgiveness is impossible when the aggressors are continuing their aggression and rejoicing about it.

[squarepusher]

So what? Wouldn't you want to destroy the political entity that terrorized you and your family out of your home?

I personally support the destruction of Israel through non-violent means.

During negotiations Hamas has agreed to renounce violence, but has not agreed to recognize Israel as a legitimate state. Israel & Western states demand that Hamas does and would rather propagate more violence on this trivial point.

Even Shimon Peres admits that Israel stands on shaky historical ground. In a debate in Doha he mentioned something to the extent that you can't change history, basically admitting that Israel's history is problematic.

You got to be completely whacked to think that Israel's history is legitimate, even when comparing it to the US's shaky history with Native Americans. In that sense it's a matter of fighting for the very fundamentals of rationality to single Israel out as one of the most problematic entities in recent world history.

Anti-Zionism is a fight for logic & reason. It's a fight for using reason & rationality to settle things as opposed to political propaganda & shear violent force. It's an extremely important fight in that sense.

Here's the Doha statement I was talking about.

http://www.thedohadebates.com/debate...ode=transcript



Everybody just "forgive and forget." It's normally advice given by crooks to their victims. Israel certainly doesn't take that advice when hunting down former Nazis. Forgiveness is impossible when the aggressors are continuing their aggression and rejoicing about it.

Hamas fires rockets from densely populated civilian centers, using civilians as 'human shields' so any retaliation will have civilian casualties. Are they not allowed to be faulted for being responsible for the death of their own peoples? Hamas charter says they want to destroy Israel, should Israel not be able to defend itself?

History being as it is, besides the point, Israel built up the area from nothing but a sand dune to a thriving 1st world civilization today. People say Israel stole the Palestinian land but it was nothing before besides dunes and scarce inhabitants. Maybe the 'Palestinians' were there before Israel, but Israel was there thousands of years ago before them. Arguing the 'whos first' point is going to be fruitless as the borders and boundaries change throughout time. That being said Israel has really developed the area into a modern thriving entity, "Palestine" has no industry and is a 3rd world nation with no resources. Why do you support them? If they stopped attacking Israel I bet they would no longer be attacked in retaliation.

[Brian4Liberty]

I think RP forums does great harm in reinforcing racist stereotypes people have of RP's ideas by always wading full on into debating who is right and whole is wrong in a conflicts in the world, we should just wipe our hands of.

As opposed to wading full on into debating abortion, building demolition, dead dogs, cross-dressing men in the girl's locker room, circumcision, binders full of women, the Federal Reserve, the Red Cross, the Federal Budget, Al Gore and the manbearpig, drugs, climate change, wars, UFOs, religion, human migration, organic milk, oil spills, silver and gold, Murray Rothbard's favorite bourbon, OWS, who is the purest politician, and the history of the world?

No topic is left undissected and repeatedly examined around here.

[Ronulus]

Hamas fires rockets from densely populated civilian centers, using civilians as 'human shields' so any retaliation will have civilian casualties. Are they not allowed to be faulted for being responsible for the death of their own peoples? Hamas charter says they want to destroy Israel, should Israel not be able to defend itself?

History being as it is, besides the point, Israel built up the area from nothing but a sand dune to a thriving 1st world civilization today. People say Israel stole the Palestinian land but it was nothing before besides dunes and scarce inhabitants. Maybe the 'Palestinians' were there before Israel, but Israel was there thousands of years ago before them. Arguing the 'whos first' point is going to be fruitless as the borders and boundaries change throughout time. That being said Israel has really developed the area into a modern thriving entity, "Palestine" has no industry and is a 3rd world nation with no resources. Why do you support them? If they stopped attacking Israel I bet they would no longer be attacked in retaliation.

What merit does that have to it? There are many places in the world that do not provide industry or anything in trade with world economics. It does not mean it's acceptable to take their land away from them in order to develop it.

You are also forgetting to mention that Israel attacked first, killing a civilian during the attack on the hamas leader, and posted a video of it on youtube. I don't really get the whole "They are using their civilians as human sheilds" argument. If they are doing it to make them look bad to the rest of the world, it is backfiring as the media around the world is playing the whole "hamas are cowards, it's their fault these people are dying". I think they are retaliating but I don't know that firing back with bombs and missles is the best way to take them out.

[P3ter_Griffin]

History being as it is, besides the point, Israel built up the area from nothing but a sand dune to a thriving 1st world civilization today. People say Israel stole the Palestinian land but it was nothing before besides dunes and scarce inhabitants. Maybe the 'Palestinians' were there before Israel, but Israel was there thousands of years ago before them. Arguing the 'whos first' point is going to be fruitless as the borders and boundaries change throughout time. That being said Israel has really developed the area into a modern thriving entity, "Palestine" has no industry and is a 3rd world nation with no resources. Why do you support them? If they stopped attacking Israel I bet they would no longer be attacked in retaliation.

Is this an argument for eminent domain? And, "Palestine"? Is that your way of saying those savages don't deserve statehood, rather they should be subjected rule by a foreign entity? Me thinks we have Bibi visiting us on the forums today.

[Brian4Liberty]

Is this an argument for eminent domain?

That's a far too relevant question for this thread...

(It's better than standard eminent domain, as it doesn't require fair payment.)

[dannno]

Hamas fires rockets from densely populated civilian centers, using civilians as 'human shields' so any retaliation will have civilian casualties. Are they not allowed to be faulted for being responsible for the death of their own peoples? Hamas charter says they want to destroy Israel, should Israel not be able to defend itself?

History being as it is, besides the point, Israel built up the area from nothing but a sand dune to a thriving 1st world civilization today. People say Israel stole the Palestinian land but it was nothing before besides dunes and scarce inhabitants. Maybe the 'Palestinians' were there before Israel, but Israel was there thousands of years ago before them. Arguing the 'whos first' point is going to be fruitless as the borders and boundaries change throughout time. That being said Israel has really developed the area into a modern thriving entity, "Palestine" has no industry and is a 3rd world nation with no resources. Why do you support them? If they stopped attacking Israel I bet they would no longer be attacked in retaliation.

From Page 4 of this thread.

http://antiwar.com/blog/2012/11/11/i...ho-started-it/