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Thread: Gaza under attack by Israel

  1. #151
    Member paulbot24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    I don't really understand what hatred of Israel has to do with "liberty." I've never heard Ron Paul use a term like "Zionist." He's opposed to entangling alliances, but I've never heard him use the kind of rhetoric towards Israel that people here use.
    I believe the rhetoric you hear in these forums is aimed not necessarily on Israel but rather at the influence of AIPAC and its corrupt effects on foreign policies and debate within this country. I can't speak for others on here but that is what I sense from listening to Ron talk about "entangling alliances."
    Last edited by paulbot24; 11-18-2012 at 07:39 AM.
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  3. #152

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbot24 View Post
    I believe the rhetoric you hear in these forums is aimed not necessarily on Israel but rather at the influence of AIPAC and its corrupt effects on foreign policies and debate within this country.
    I'm opposed to AIPAC as well, because I don't believe that we should allow a lobbying group from a foreign country to dictate our country's foreign policy. If I were a member of Congress, AIPAC would probably hate me. But, I separate my opposition to entangling alliances from how I personally view Israel. I don't have any problem at all with Israel on a personal level. I'm simply opposed to giving out foreign aid to any country, because I view it as a form of income redistribution. The people who are fans of Israel should donate their own money to them voluntarily.
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    I support abolishing the Federal Reserve, the IRS, the Department of Education, Commerce, Energy, Agriculture, Interior, Labor, Health and Human Services, EPA, FDA, DEA, support ending the war on drugs, support bringing our troops home from around the world, oppose preemptive war, oppose sanctions on foreign countries, oppose foreign military bases, oppose the Patriot Act, oppose warrantless wiretapping, etc.

    Does that sound like a "statist" to you?

  4. #153
    Member paulbot24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    I separate my opposition to entangling alliances from how I personally view Israel. I don't have any problem at all with Israel on a personal level.
    I am not picking on you at all but I think this comment makes an interesting point. When topics like foreign aid and alliances come up, you always hear the ubiquitous "including Israel" clause. This usually turns into "even Israel"! Are these clauses really necessary when America is discussing foreign policy issues? Last time I checked, Israel is still a foreign nation. Yet if you lump them into the "all the rest of the world" category in political discussion here in America, you are somehow personally full of hate or an anti-Semite unless you say, "including Israel."
    Last edited by paulbot24; 11-18-2012 at 08:00 AM.
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  5. #154

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    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    I don't really understand what hatred of Israel has to do with "liberty." I've never heard Ron Paul use a term like "Zionist." He's opposed to entangling alliances, but I've never heard him use the kind of rhetoric towards Israel that people here use.
    I wasn't necessarily trying to tie the two together directly, although I can see how it probably looked that way by my previous post.

    I was more referring to the idea that someone looking to expand their own personal knowledge needs to be open minded about ideas that are contradictory to what they've always "known." My point was that if someone is so closed minded to hearing the opposing side of an Israel-Palestine argument, they probably weren't going to come around to many of the liberty related issues on this forum.

    I suppose thinking that way probably isn't beneficial to our goals, but that's simply what I've been encountering latey.

  6. #155

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    Zionism is a virtual disease that spreads among people with low resistance to hypocritical ideas. I'm serious. It spreads very much like diseases do affecting the weak more than healthy people. It's worth studying it as such because it will tell us a lot about how destructive ideas can take hold of society and wreck havoc on them.

  7. #156

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    Quote Originally Posted by puppetmaster View Post
    I guaranfukintee you that there would be a long ass thread if this was being done by the Brits.......actually longer than this thread as everyone here is used to the Israel/Palestine conflict
    Not to mention the British Empire already collapsed. We don't have to point out how they're a bunch of greedy, violent land.resource grabbers because the sun already set on the British empire. Instead, we get to use their past as an example of how not to conduct foreign policy.
    .[QUOTE]"Every great new thought was opposed. Every great new invention was denounced. The first motor was considered foolish. The airplane was considered impossible. The power loom was considered vicious. Anesthesia was considered sinful. But the men of unborrowed vision went ahead. They fought, they suffered and they paid. But they won." - Ayn Rand, The Fountainhead[/QUOTE]
    ..
    .

    I blog at Red State Eclectic, and I tweet here,.

  8. #157

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liberty74 View Post
    Hamas are launching rockets to KILL. Israel are launching rockets back to take out Hamas' ability to launch such rockets. Know the fucking difference.

    If Muslims give up their weapons, there will be peace. If Jews give up their weapons, there will be genocide.
    This is simply a lie. For starts, the Muslims have no weapons to give up. And the targets that Israel is choosing are not military targets. How can anybody look at the land that Israel has illegally occupied over the last 50 years, and decide they're the victims?
    .[QUOTE]"Every great new thought was opposed. Every great new invention was denounced. The first motor was considered foolish. The airplane was considered impossible. The power loom was considered vicious. Anesthesia was considered sinful. But the men of unborrowed vision went ahead. They fought, they suffered and they paid. But they won." - Ayn Rand, The Fountainhead[/QUOTE]
    ..
    .

    I blog at Red State Eclectic, and I tweet here,.

  9. #158
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    The difference between the State of Israel and the people of Israel is critical. The State of Israel are a bunch of thugs, terrorists and murders. The people who are abused under this rule are probably pretty good people I'm sure.

    The oppressors who operate the state are not the ruled...They are the rulers who are the cowards, knaves, murders, liars, thieves and the general immoral decay of humanity. When people are saying Israel this and Israel that they are meaning the rotten compost that resides over all of us that decides to murder and steal at will. The state is not the peace loving people who make up the slaves under these crooks.

    Separation of cancer and healthy cell is critical.

    The same goes for the Palestinians...Their state apparatus is no different. But the fault of the current war resides in the first expropriations of life and property. This can be clearly drawn back to the foundation of the state of Israel.

    Saying that both sides are responsible is the same as saying thier is no agressor, which happens to work very well for the state of Isreal.

  10. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    I don't really understand what hatred of Israel has to do with "liberty." I've never heard Ron Paul use a term like "Zionist." He's opposed to entangling alliances, but I've never heard him use the kind of rhetoric towards Israel that people here use.
    Do not pretend you haven't seen these videos pasted in this thread. You will not be taken seriously until you watch them. Israelis are occupying terrorists. Gaza is a concentration camp. Pure and simple.









  11. #160

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    JFKIII, just how many threads are you going to post those videos in? You do realize that just because something is in a video, doesn't make it factual, right?
    I have many friends in the libertarian movement who look down on those of us who get involved in political activity,
    he acknowledged, but "eventually, if you want to bring about changes what you have to do is participate in political
    action.
    -- Ron Paul


    "We do have some differences and our approaches will be different, but that makes him his own person. I mean why should he [Rand] be a clone and do everything and think just exactly as I have. I think it's an opportunity to be independent minded. We are about 99% the same on issues." "People Try To Drive Wedges Between Rand And Me." --Ron Paul

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  12. #161

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    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Not to mention the British Empire already collapsed. We don't have to point out how they're a bunch of greedy, violent land.resource grabbers because the sun already set on the British empire. Instead, we get to use their past as an example of how not to conduct foreign policy.
    Why is that tiny collasped empire able to control all of the resolutions to attack countries in the UN security council?
    War; everything in the world wrong, evil and immoral combined into one and multiplied by millions.

  13. #162

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbot24 View Post
    I believe the rhetoric you hear in these forums is aimed not necessarily on Israel but rather at the influence of AIPAC and its corrupt effects on foreign policies and debate within this country. I can't speak for others on here but that is what I sense from listening to Ron talk about "entangling alliances."
    I agree with what Ron says, but that is not largely what I see on these forums. I see hatred of Israel and a glorification of the Palestinians. Neither are perfect.

    I just want us to stop funding any and all of them and somehow stop our government representatives from being bought off by special interests, or be thrown in prison where they belong.
    I have many friends in the libertarian movement who look down on those of us who get involved in political activity,
    he acknowledged, but "eventually, if you want to bring about changes what you have to do is participate in political
    action.
    -- Ron Paul


    "We do have some differences and our approaches will be different, but that makes him his own person. I mean why should he [Rand] be a clone and do everything and think just exactly as I have. I think it's an opportunity to be independent minded. We are about 99% the same on issues." "People Try To Drive Wedges Between Rand And Me." --Ron Paul

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=pB5JgzBVHN0

    The Property Basis of Rights

  14. #163

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qdog View Post
    What is sad, is that RT and Al Jazeera are more fair and unbiased than our corporately controlled media.
    Oh give me a ****ing break.

    I'll give you a pass on Al Jazeera but RT is bias as anyone. It's bias towards what you like criticisms of western and Israeli military actions, but they are noticeably quiet about Russia military intervention (hello Georgia and Chechnya). Instead when talking about their own government about half of what I've seen for RT are stories about how awesome Putin is.

  15. #164

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    Quote Originally Posted by thequietkid10 View Post
    Oh give me a ****ing break.

    I'll give you a pass on Al Jazeera but RT is bias as anyone. It's bias towards what you like criticisms of western and Israeli military actions, but they are noticeably quiet about Russia military intervention (hello Georgia and Chechnya). Instead when talking about their own government about half of what I've seen for RT are stories about how awesome Putin is.
    i agree,its like Rush Limbaugh,he will usually have a spot on analysis of what wrong with the democrats,but he will turn a blind eye on anything the republicans do.Its easy to be critical of what your against,but hard to be unbiased to your own constituents.

  16. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    JFKIII, just how many threads are you going to post those videos in? You do realize that just because something is in a video, doesn't make it factual, right?
    That's correct, just like all the Ron Paul videos, you have to have good content. Have you watched any of them to see if they have good content?

  17. #166

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    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    I just want us to stop funding any and all of them and somehow stop our government representatives from being bought off by special interests, or be thrown in prison where they belong.
    Let me know when that happens. In the meantime, Israel is a blight on the planet and prime pusher of Injustice in Palestine, with the red White and Blue paying for it all.

    Quote Originally Posted by thequietkid10 View Post
    I'll give you a pass on Al Jazeera....
    Al Jazeera is a tool of Qatar, er go, a tool of the U.S., and when it comes time to start droppin' bombs, they line up behind NATO. Libya proves it.
    Last edited by UWDude; 11-18-2012 at 06:22 PM.

  18. #167

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    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    If the average person came on these forums and read all of these anti Israel comments they would be turned off immediately and wouldn't give the liberty movement a 2nd thought. It's this kind of stuff that will hurt Rand if he decides to run for President in 2016.
    Yeah, well, there's quite a few issues like that. Which other issues should we hush up about to placate the GOP psychopaths?
    .[QUOTE]"Every great new thought was opposed. Every great new invention was denounced. The first motor was considered foolish. The airplane was considered impossible. The power loom was considered vicious. Anesthesia was considered sinful. But the men of unborrowed vision went ahead. They fought, they suffered and they paid. But they won." - Ayn Rand, The Fountainhead[/QUOTE]
    ..
    .

    I blog at Red State Eclectic, and I tweet here,.

  19. #168

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    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Yeah, well, there's quite a few issues like that. Which other issues should we hush up about to placate the GOP psychopaths?
    Military
    War on drugs
    Marriage
    Department of Education
    Social Security
    Medicare

    Who wants to continue?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul
    Perhaps the most important lesson from Obamacare is that while liberty is lost incrementally, it cannot be regained incrementally. The federal leviathan continues its steady growth; sometimes boldly and sometimes quietly. Obamacare is just the latest example, but make no mistake: the statists are winning. So advocates of liberty must reject incremental approaches and fight boldly for bedrock principles.
    The epitome of libertarian populism

  20. #169

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    Quote Originally Posted by Feeding the Abscess View Post
    Military
    War on drugs
    Marriage
    Department of Education
    Social Security
    Medicare

    Who wants to continue?
    The IRS. Remember that Anita woman who, in the summer of 2007, went around from state to state telling us never, ever, ever to speak of abolishing the IRS? Ah, those were the daze....
    In this world nothing is certain but death and taxes.

  21. #170

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    Quote Originally Posted by RockEnds View Post
    The IRS. Remember that Anita woman who, in the summer of 2007, went around from state to state telling us never, ever, ever to speak of abolishing the IRS? Ah, those were the daze....
    Yes! How could I have forgotten? The GOP doesn't want to eliminate the income tax - the basers want everyone to have to pay it!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul
    Perhaps the most important lesson from Obamacare is that while liberty is lost incrementally, it cannot be regained incrementally. The federal leviathan continues its steady growth; sometimes boldly and sometimes quietly. Obamacare is just the latest example, but make no mistake: the statists are winning. So advocates of liberty must reject incremental approaches and fight boldly for bedrock principles.
    The epitome of libertarian populism

  22. #171

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    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Yeah, well, there's quite a few issues like that. Which other issues should we hush up about to placate the GOP psychopaths?
    Like I said before, hating Israel is not part of a non interventionist foreign policy, nor is it part of liberty.
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    I support abolishing the Federal Reserve, the IRS, the Department of Education, Commerce, Energy, Agriculture, Interior, Labor, Health and Human Services, EPA, FDA, DEA, support ending the war on drugs, support bringing our troops home from around the world, oppose preemptive war, oppose sanctions on foreign countries, oppose foreign military bases, oppose the Patriot Act, oppose warrantless wiretapping, etc.

    Does that sound like a "statist" to you?

  23. #172

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    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Yeah, well, there's quite a few issues like that. Which other issues should we hush up about to placate the GOP psychopaths?
    How about the issues we have no control over. We can cut off funding to Israel but we can't tell Israel how to conduct it's military affairs, unless you want to violate the principal of non intervention.

  24. #173

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    Seems like every other thread there is someone telling others what they should and should not post. The next election is 4 years away, and I couldn't give a shit less what an easily offended GOP Joe Blow thinks about my forum posts.

  25. #174

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    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    Like I said before, hating Israel is not part of a non interventionist foreign policy, nor is it part of liberty.
    I've openly taken the side of Palestine due to my own morality--I'm pretty sure Angela has NEVER stated that she hated Israel (nor have I, for that matter.) And you do not determine what is and what is not part of liberty. Thankfully, since Palestinians have been in bondage since 1948.

    If you want to stop sounding like a fool, you need to drop this politically correct bullshit--it's dishonest and immoral.

  26. #175

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    Like I said before, hating Israel is not part of a non interventionist foreign policy, nor is it part of liberty.
    Nor is telling people how they should feel about any particular subject.

    I believe a more reasonable conversation would be to discuss whether it's reasonable to dislike Israel in the same way that people might dislike ethnic supremacist driven, authoritarian governments that use violence to antagonize their neighbors & draw the US into violent conflicts.

    I don't believe anybody here is suggesting that the US should actively take the Palestinian side on this conflict.

    Suggesting that people should withhold their feelings and thoughts about Israel and its history is (yawn) yet another attempt to obscure the free exchange of ideas.
    Last edited by furface; 11-18-2012 at 09:12 PM.

  27. #176

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    Quote Originally Posted by thequietkid10 View Post
    How about the issues we have no control over. We can cut off funding to Israel...
    Yeah, and when that happens, I'll stop bitching. Unless of course, Israel nukes someone. Then I think I'll be downright pissed at them.

  28. #177

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    Apparently the British Chief Rabbi thinks this may go past the Palestinian problem...when he doesn't think he's on the air, that is.

    In this world nothing is certain but death and taxes.

  29. #178

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    I took the side of the Jews during WWII--because imprisoning, stealing, murdering and using people is wrong. Just as I took the side of the slaves and the Native Americans.

    So when a few select people take umbrage at me using "strong language" in this and other threads--I ask you, have you put yourself in the shoes of the Palestinian people? Have you researched the actual facts regarding Israel's creation? Have you considered what you would do if your own child was a casualty of this "conflict" that should not be a conflict?

    I do not care one whit for any religious belief when it attempts to make these things okay, because in my view--that is the antithesis of Christianity. It is the antithesis of morality--I do not care if you think it will bring back Jesus, because in my view, if Jesus is who you think he is, he will smite you for supporting such things. Prince of Peace, right?

    If you think this makes me an anti-semite, you are as dumb as a bag of hammers--or you are spouting Hasbara.

    I know this--if someone were to kill my child or a member of my family due to this sort of bullshit, it would be my life's work to make sure that those responsible paid the price. I am not Jesus, and I do not forgive such an incredible transgression.

    The Ten Commandments apply or they don't, right?

    If the Israelis can steal, murder, abort babies, covet and do it with the protection of American "Christians"--then why would I ever consider them legitimate? I don't care about ridiculous stuff like keeping Sharia law out of the US--and all this warfare does is bring (ironically) more Muslims to the US, so idiots like Peter King can scream like a twat about them, without ever seeing the underlying reasons that they're here in the first place.

    Doing and supporting immoral actions has repercussions, it's a lot like karma. Think your choices through.

  30. #179

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    Quote Originally Posted by amy31416 View Post
    I took the side of the Jews during WWII--because imprisoning, stealing, murdering and using people is wrong. Just as I took the side of the slaves and the Native Americans.

    So when a few select people take umbrage at me using "strong language" in this and other threads--I ask you, have you put yourself in the shoes of the Palestinian people? Have you researched the actual facts regarding Israel's creation? Have you considered what you would do if your own child was a casualty of this "conflict" that should not be a conflict?

    I do not care one whit for any religious belief when it attempts to make these things okay, because in my view--that is the antithesis of Christianity. It is the antithesis of morality--I do not care if you think it will bring back Jesus, because in my view, if Jesus is who you think he is, he will smite you for supporting such things. Prince of Peace, right?

    If you think this makes me an anti-semite, you are as dumb as a bag of hammers--or you are spouting Hasbara.

    I know this--if someone were to kill my child or a member of my family due to this sort of bullshit, it would be my life's work to make sure that those responsible paid the price. I am not Jesus, and I do not forgive such an incredible transgression.

    The Ten Commandments apply or they don't, right?

    If the Israelis can steal, murder, abort babies, covet and do it with the protection of American "Christians"--then why would I ever consider them legitimate? I don't care about ridiculous stuff like keeping Sharia law out of the US--and all this warfare does is bring (ironically) more Muslims to the US, so idiots like Peter King can scream like a twat about them, without ever seeing the underlying reasons that they're here in the first place.

    Doing and supporting immoral actions has repercussions, it's a lot like karma. Think your choices through.
    stop with that crazy talk...they are beyond reproach!!
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it."
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  31. #180

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    I am personally not going to take a "side" as if it were a spectator sport. These groups of people have been going at it for decades over many issues. I think it has the potential to start another major Middle East conflict, if not world war. And I either want it to happen quickly, or not at all. And by taking sides, I feel it just adds to the hatred spewing about.

    People need to understand that it's the government of Israel, not the people of Israel themselves, fighting. I'm sure the people of Israel want peace much like the untainted (those not warped by Hamas) Palestinians do, perhaps just by different measures, if anything. Of course, this doesn't speak for all, but, I know there are pockets of people within the population that wish as much.
    Last edited by Okie RP fan; 11-18-2012 at 11:15 PM.
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