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Thread: Gaza under attack by Israel

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by mport1 View Post
    Can somebody please summarize the history between Israel and the Palestinians for me? I don't have the time to research it in depth and cut through all the propaganda from both sides.

    My intuition tells me that Israel is the aggressor and the worse of the two evils. Antiwar.com seems to present this narrative as well. So, what is really going on with the whole situation?

    Here is Rothbard on the whole mess... The state of Israel isn't the innocent victim here...not by a long shot.



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  3. #122

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    Quote Originally Posted by MelissaWV View Post
    And if someone got that impression, I would ask them to reread the thread and look to see precisely how many people have taken a side. Of those, how many are advocating some sort of action on the United States' part? You can still take a personal side on something, and not want to legislate it. Ron Paul does that on a large number of issues.
    Does he go on record saying this county is right and that country is wrong? I don't think so.
    War; everything in the world wrong, evil and immoral combined into one and multiplied by millions.

  4. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by klamath View Post
    Does he go on record saying this county is right and that country is wrong? I don't think so.
    He goes on record as saying any number of moral issues are this or that, and makes no move to legislate them. I think if you asked him directly, he'd be hard pressed to deny that the death of a baby via rocket fire is a bad thing. Or would he say he can't make that determination because he doesn't get involved in foreign affairs?

    If I personally favor one side or the other side then it’s really pretty academic because politically I don’t want to be involved. If I wanna say well, you know, I really think the Palestinians have been ripped off and therefore all the blame is on Israel, then I’ve sorta stepped in a little bit more than I want to. I can have a personal opinion but politically my position is that America would be much better off if we just minded our own business
    Last edited by MelissaWV; 11-17-2012 at 07:52 PM.

  5. #124

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    Quote Originally Posted by MelissaWV View Post
    No, instead he goes on record as saying any number of moral issues are this or that, and makes no move to legislate them. I think if you asked him directly, he'd be hard pressed to deny that the death of a baby via rocket fire is a bad thing. Or would he say he can't make that determination because he doesn't get involved in foreign affairs?
    No he would be apalled at the individual suffering, and death on all sides as I am, but he would say which nation was right or wrong? I don't think so.
    War; everything in the world wrong, evil and immoral combined into one and multiplied by millions.

  6. #125

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    If we as the people of a different country can without a shadow of a doubt determine who is unequivically right and who is wrong in a foreign conflict then, since we are talking morals, we as a nation should be morally obligated to came to the aid of the unequivically right country. I don't believe we can. On an individual scale it would be like if I saw a little girl get grabbed and raped I would feel morally oblicated to kick the sh*t out of the rapist. Yes I am intervening and i would not feel wrong doing it.
    War; everything in the world wrong, evil and immoral combined into one and multiplied by millions.

  7. #126

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    Quote Originally Posted by presence View Post
    ... Non jews say WTF we've been here for generations? They go to war. Lose.
    ...
    The Palestinians never waged any war. They were kept defenseless by the British and British led Zionist forces in "Special Night Squads". The 750,000 Palestinians had already been driven from their homes before the "Arab armies" got involved.
    Last edited by robert68; 11-17-2012 at 08:11 PM.

  8. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by klamath View Post
    No he would be apalled at the individual suffering, and death on all sides as I am, but he would say which nation was right or wrong? I don't think so.
    Did you even listen to him...

    Again, who in this thread is advocating one side being absolutely right and the use of deadly force on that side's behalf by the US?

    It's not exactly "all of the forums" or even most.

  9. #128

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    Son of a Famed Israeli General Speaks Out

    Posted by Lew Rockwell on October 12, 2012 09:56 AM

    Writes Bob Wenzel:
    Miko Peled, author of The General’s Son, whose father was the renowned Israeli general Matti Peled, spoke earlier this month in Seattle. The video is over an hour long, but it is a MUST view. Find the time to view it. It is history from a perspective you have never heard before.
    ..

  10. #129

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    Oh but they are the chosen people, haven't you heard? They get to murder all the women and children they like. Their "god" seems to get off on it, haven't you read the old Testament?

  11. #130

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    Quote Originally Posted by klamath View Post
    I think RP forums does great harm in reinforcing racist stereotypes people have of RP's ideas by always wading full on into debating who is right and whole is wrong in a conflicts in the world, we should just wipe our hands of.
    I have long heard the argument that we have to take sides because israel has undue influence on the US foreign policy. They do, however I will argue the the british actually have Far far more influence than the Israelis. They have actually dragged us into huge wars. The British have actually invaded 90% of the nations of the world. Many of the problems in the middle east are the result the country boundries draw by the British including israel and palestine however I am not seeing long threads on the british.
    The british can do what the british can do but I just want the US to stay out of wars other nations get themselves into.
    I want our country to mind our own business including people on these forums.
    If people truely believed in RP they should note RP would not even vote for a resolution condeming other countries obvious atrocities. Why? Because he believes that even chosing sides with no actual physical support was interfering in other nations.
    I guaranfukintee you that there would be a long ass thread if this was being done by the Brits.......actually longer than this thread as everyone here is used to the Israel/Palestine conflict
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it."
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  12. #131

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    Quote Originally Posted by MelissaWV View Post
    Did you even listen to him...

    Again, who in this thread is advocating one side being absolutely right and the use of deadly force on that side's behalf by the US?

    It's not exactly "all of the forums" or even most.
    Your video hadn't posted when I answered. Unfortunately I can't waste bandwidth watching. I am on a bandwidth noose. If the quote of RP's is the point of the video then I believe he agrees with what I am saying. He wouldn't say which side he was supporting personally.
    We are a worldwide political forum susposedly representing the belief of RP's noninterventionist foreign policy yet many are avidly taking sides in a foreign conflict and I think it is counter productive. That is just my opinion, hopefully some will see it my way and deal only with our countries involvement. With that I am out of this thread. I said my piece
    War; everything in the world wrong, evil and immoral combined into one and multiplied by millions.

  13. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by klamath View Post
    Your video hadn't posted when I answered. Unfortunately I can't waste bandwidth watching. I am on a bandwidth noose. If the quote of RP's is the point of the video then I believe he agrees with what I am saying. He wouldn't say which side he was supporting personally.
    We are a worldwide political forum susposedly representing the belief of RP's noninterventionist foreign policy yet many are avidly taking sides in a foreign conflict and I think it is counter productive. That is just my opinion, hopefully some will see it my way and deal only with our countries involvement. With that I am out of this thread. I said my piece
    He uses the phrase "concentration camp" to refer to conditions in Gaza... I think that's a pretty strong personal opinion.

    No one here supports actually legislating taking a side, or sending troops, or sending money, that I have seen.

    This is along the lines of Ron's personal views on abortion, drugs, or marriage... and the way he puts all of that aside in order to do the Constitutional thing.

  14. #133

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    Quote Originally Posted by klamath View Post
    I think RP forums does great harm in reinforcing racist stereotypes people have of RP's ideas by always wading full on into debating who is right and whole is wrong in a conflicts in the world, we should just wipe our hands of.
    If the average person came on these forums and read all of these anti Israel comments they would be turned off immediately and wouldn't give the liberty movement a 2nd thought. It's this kind of stuff that will hurt Rand if he decides to run for President in 2016.
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    I support abolishing the Federal Reserve, the IRS, the Department of Education, Commerce, Energy, Agriculture, Interior, Labor, Health and Human Services, EPA, FDA, DEA, support ending the war on drugs, support bringing our troops home from around the world, oppose preemptive war, oppose sanctions on foreign countries, oppose foreign military bases, oppose the Patriot Act, oppose warrantless wiretapping, etc.

    Does that sound like a "statist" to you?

  15. #134

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    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    If the average person came on these forums and read all of these anti Israel comments they would be turned off immediately and wouldn't give the liberty movement a 2nd thought. It's this kind of stuff that will hurt Rand if he decides to run for President in 2016.
    That's because the average person can't comprehend the idea that there are events which took place outside of their short lifespan. If it happened before their birth, most people don't care about it or can't be swayed to even learn about it.

    You are correct, unfortunately. At the same time, I think part of being a good liberty supporter is educating yourself. If a person was that closed minded to begin with they were probably never going to come onboard anyway.

  16. #135

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeroneous View Post
    If a person was that closed minded to begin with they were probably never going to come onboard anyway.
    I suppose you can keep telling yourself that.
    “I have many friends in the libertarian movement who look down on those of us who get involved in political activity,”
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  17. #136

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    In case you're interested, this guy is broadcasting a live audio feed from Gaza. I've had it on for the last hour or so and it is spooky. The sound of Israeli drones flying overhead never stops and you hear the occasional blast.

    http://www.ustream.tv/channel/operation-pillar-of-cloud
    ...but when the trumpets blew again and the knights charged, the name they cried was "Stannis! Stannis! STANNIS!"

  18. #137

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    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    If the average person came on these forums and read all of these anti Israel comments they would be turned off immediately and wouldn't give the liberty movement a 2nd thought. It's this kind of stuff that will hurt Rand if he decides to run for President in 2016.
    I suppose you can keep telling yourself that.

    seriously trying hard...you should get a raise
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it."
    James Madison

    "It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." - Samuel Adams



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  19. #138

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    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    If the average person came on these forums and read all of these anti Israel comments they would be turned off immediately and wouldn't give the liberty movement a 2nd thought. It's this kind of stuff that will hurt Rand if he decides to run for President in 2016.
    This is a forum to share opinions were not the 2016 liberty HQ. If they run off because people personally don't like Israel what happens if they see pot smokers here, or gays, or EGAD they see me a muslim! This forum is just a melting pot of people who traditionally can't stand eachother united under the banner of LEAVE US ALONE FEDS! And I just think that is wonderful.

  20. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muwahid View Post
    This is a forum to share opinions were not the 2016 liberty HQ. If they run off because people personally don't like Israel what happens if they see pot smokers here, or gays, or EGAD they see me a muslim! This forum is just a melting pot of people who traditionally can't stand eachother united under the banner of LEAVE US ALONE FEDS! And I just think that is wonderful.
    In your defense, I have yet to see you wielding a sword and ak-47 and promising to kill the mushrikeen on the forum.

    and presumably, most gays on this forum agree with getting the govt out of the marriage business, so they wouldn't be the "enemy" to a RINO who came here looking for info on Dr. Rand Paul.
    List of Liberty-minded candidates for Congress in 2014
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  21. #140

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    Quote Originally Posted by klamath View Post
    Does he go on record saying this county is right and that country is wrong? I don't think so.
    You think wrong.

  22. #141
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    so, what would happen if Egypt, Gaza, Jordan, Syria, lebanon, The West Bank, and for shits and giggles Iran. All decided to simultaneously attack Israel?
    Last edited by Pauls' Revere; 11-18-2012 at 02:44 AM.
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  23. #142

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls' Revere View Post
    so, what would happen if Egypt, Gaza, Jordan, Syria, lebanon, The West Bank, and for shits and giggles Iran. All decided to simultaneously attack Israel?
    The Middle East would be turned into a parking lot and the neocons would get their wish of redrawing the region.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul
    Perhaps the most important lesson from Obamacare is that while liberty is lost incrementally, it cannot be regained incrementally. The federal leviathan continues its steady growth; sometimes boldly and sometimes quietly. Obamacare is just the latest example, but make no mistake: the statists are winning. So advocates of liberty must reject incremental approaches and fight boldly for bedrock principles.
    The epitome of libertarian populism

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  25. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwax23 View Post
    Hamas has launched over 200 rockets and various missiles into Israel since this began. 8 Israelis are dead. Israel did not "Attack Gaza" as the thread title seems to pretend. Israel is defending itself.
    Not true.









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    Quote Originally Posted by androidappme View Post
    Because of Ron Paul and his character. Ron Paul is more than Lady Gaga ever will be. It is sad that people who followed Ron Paul around the campaigns had no substance and Ron Paul lost the nominations because of their immaturity and being ridiculed in the media because of people who called themselves Ron Paul voter but didn't knew a damn thing about liberalism. So sad that he left congress as well.
    Don't you love how sock puppet accounts show up in certain threads?

  27. #146
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    Most of the critical posts of Israels aggression and occupation in this thread will soon become a hate crime...So keep that in mind. One however, can call the Palestinians a savage sub human race of terrorist murders and get a medal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jlasoon View Post
    If you haven't been to that part of the world "SHHH". Your argument reminds me of stupid Democrats who blame our economic woes on George Bush. Yes, he may of helped in the destruction, but the reality is that 100 years of Fed policy has killed our economy.

    Like I said, you see Zionism, but I see religious zeal, the Crusades, the Muslim Conquests and everything in-between including the BOOK OF GENESIS.








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    Quote Originally Posted by Feeding the Abscess View Post
    Also important:

    It happened near the border.

    Immigration hawks take notice. This is what you ostensibly support.
    Don't try to pin Israeli terrorism on me bro.

  30. #149

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    Quote Originally Posted by mport1 View Post
    Can somebody please summarize the history between Israel and the Palestinians for me? I don't have the time to research it in depth and cut through all the propaganda from both sides.

    My intuition tells me that Israel is the aggressor and the worse of the two evils. Antiwar.com seems to present this narrative as well. So, what is really going on with the whole situation?
    Zatch

  31. #150

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeroneous View Post
    You are correct, unfortunately. At the same time, I think part of being a good liberty supporter is educating yourself. If a person was that closed minded to begin with they were probably never going to come onboard anyway.
    I don't really understand what hatred of Israel has to do with "liberty." I've never heard Ron Paul use a term like "Zionist." He's opposed to entangling alliances, but I've never heard him use the kind of rhetoric towards Israel that people here use.
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    I support abolishing the Federal Reserve, the IRS, the Department of Education, Commerce, Energy, Agriculture, Interior, Labor, Health and Human Services, EPA, FDA, DEA, support ending the war on drugs, support bringing our troops home from around the world, oppose preemptive war, oppose sanctions on foreign countries, oppose foreign military bases, oppose the Patriot Act, oppose warrantless wiretapping, etc.

    Does that sound like a "statist" to you?

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