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Thread: Gaza under attack by Israel

  1. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jlasoon View Post
    Too much anti-semitism within the Ron Paul faction. Don't you know that the poor Palestinians are simply trying to enjoy their hot cocoa and gum gum drops?
    It is not "anti-semitism"

    Palestinians are mostly Semite,, Zionists are mostly NOT.

    They are Khazar ancestry,, and that would make them Japhetic. (as am I)
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
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  3. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Now why does that sound so familiar? Militarized police killing innocent people under dubious circumstances? Circular force continuum? How many Palestinian dogs are getting shot?
    Also important:

    It happened near the border.

    Immigration hawks take notice. This is what you ostensibly support.
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    The epitome of libertarian populism

  4. #93

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    Too much anti-semitism within the Ron Paul faction. Don't you know that the poor Palestinians are simply trying to enjoy their hot cocoa and gum gum drops?
    Did someone mention anti-semenism? It's a terrible thing you know. When your girlfriend or wife doesn't swallow it's a horrible insult to your masculinity.

  5. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jlasoon View Post
    Too much anti-semitism within the Ron Paul faction. Don't you know that the poor Palestinians are simply trying to enjoy their hot cocoa and gum gum drops?
    AIPAC is a master at propaganda. It cann't be a coincidence that everytime the fighting in that area starts, new posters show up, either disrupting threads that criticize Israel or calling us a bunch of Jew haters.

    The more I see this, the more evil I see. The truth doesn't require smokescreens.
    .[QUOTE]"Every great new thought was opposed. Every great new invention was denounced. The first motor was considered foolish. The airplane was considered impossible. The power loom was considered vicious. Anesthesia was considered sinful. But the men of unborrowed vision went ahead. They fought, they suffered and they paid. But they won." - Ayn Rand, The Fountainhead[/QUOTE]
    ..
    .

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  6. #95

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    The religious ideology of the Palestinian Authority religious leaders can be summarized by eight essential principles:

    Regarding the Jews:

    Jews are the enemy of Allah.

    Islam is fighting a continuous religious war against the Jews.

    The killing of Jews is a religious obligation.

    Palestinians are the vanguard in this war against the Jews, and all Islamic nations are obligated to assist in this war.

    Regarding Israel:

    - All of the land between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea (which includes all of Israel) is a religious Waqf -- an Islamic religious trust. Any Moslem who relinquishes any part to Israel is damned to Hell.

    - All agreements with Israel are inherently temporary in nature, and are signed only because of Israel's temporary balance of power advantage.

    - Allah will replace Moslems who shirk their obligation to battle Israel.

    - The ultimate destruction of Israel is a certainty.

    The Palestinians repeatedly use Islamic sources to defend this religious hatred, even demanding the killing of Jews as a current obligation and the will of Allah. At least four times in recent months, Palestinian religious leaders have taught publicly that the following Hadith (Islamic traditions attributed to Mohammed) is an authoritative directive of Islam today, expressing Allah's will that obedient Moslems kill Jews. According to Sheikh Muhammed Abd al Hadi La'afi, quoted in the official P.A. newspaper Al-Hayat Al-Jadida (May 18, 2001), and Dr. Muhammed Ibrahim Madi, delivering the main Friday sermon on Palestinian TV (April 13, 2001), the Hadith itself states:

    "The Day of Resurrection will not arrive until the Moslems make war against the Jews and kill them, and until a Jew hiding behind a rock and tree, and the rock and tree will say: 'Oh Moslem, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!'"

  7. #96

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    You seem to be suffering from anti-semenism androidappme. You should masturbate using real physical parts, not the video screen in your tiny, little head.

    Quote Originally Posted by androidappme View Post
    The religious ideology of the Palestinian Authority religious leaders can be summarized by eight essential principles:

    Regarding the Jews:

    Jews are the enemy of Allah.

    Islam is fighting a continuous religious war against the Jews.

    The killing of Jews is a religious obligation.

    Palestinians are the vanguard in this war against the Jews, and all Islamic nations are obligated to assist in this war.

    Regarding Israel:

    - All of the land between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea (which includes all of Israel) is a religious Waqf -- an Islamic religious trust. Any Moslem who relinquishes any part to Israel is damned to Hell.

    - All agreements with Israel are inherently temporary in nature, and are signed only because of Israel's temporary balance of power advantage.

    - Allah will replace Moslems who shirk their obligation to battle Israel.

    - The ultimate destruction of Israel is a certainty.

    The Palestinians repeatedly use Islamic sources to defend this religious hatred, even demanding the killing of Jews as a current obligation and the will of Allah. At least four times in recent months, Palestinian religious leaders have taught publicly that the following Hadith (Islamic traditions attributed to Mohammed) is an authoritative directive of Islam today, expressing Allah's will that obedient Moslems kill Jews. According to Sheikh Muhammed Abd al Hadi La'afi, quoted in the official P.A. newspaper Al-Hayat Al-Jadida (May 18, 2001), and Dr. Muhammed Ibrahim Madi, delivering the main Friday sermon on Palestinian TV (April 13, 2001), the Hadith itself states:

    "The Day of Resurrection will not arrive until the Moslems make war against the Jews and kill them, and until a Jew hiding behind a rock and tree, and the rock and tree will say: 'Oh Moslem, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!'"

  8. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    It is not "anti-semitism"

    Palestinians are mostly Semite,, Zionists are mostly NOT.

    They are Khazar ancestry,, and that would make them Japhetic. (as am I)

    I'm interested in this, if you could share a few links without too much trouble. (will not change my opinion on this shit, but I like education and would personally appreciate your efforts.)
    Last edited by MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2; 11-17-2012 at 10:35 AM.
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  9. #98

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    Not trying to derail this thread, but does anyone have a recommendation for a good book pertaining to the creation of Israel or its history in general? I would prefer something without bias, although I know that's going to be next to impossible to come by. This is one aspect of international relations that I have to admit to being very uneducated about.

  10. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeroneous View Post
    Not trying to derail this thread, but does anyone have a recommendation for a good book pertaining to the creation of Israel or its history in general? I would prefer something without bias, although I know that's going to be next to impossible to come by. This is one aspect of international relations that I have to admit to being very uneducated about.
    Probably not exactly what you're looking for, but check this out.

    http://inventionofthejewishpeople.com/

    Shlomo Sand is an Israeli history professor, and his research is solid.

    MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2, the link would probably work for your question as well.

    “Countering official Zionist historiography, Sand questions whether the Jewish People ever existed as a national group with a common origin in the Land of Israel/Palestine. He concludes that the Jews should be seen as a religious community comprising a mishmash of individuals and groups that had converted to the ancient monotheistic religion but do not have any historical right to establish an independent Jewish state in the Holy Land. In short, the Jewish People, according to Sand, are not really a “people” in the sense of having a common ethnic origin and national heritage. They certainly do not have a political claim over the territory that today constitutes Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories, including Jerusalem.”
    http://www.ifamericansknew.org

    Last edited by furface; 11-17-2012 at 12:06 PM.

  11. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by furface View Post
    Probably not exactly what you're looking for but, check this out.

    http://inventionofthejewishpeople.com/

    Shlomo Sand is an Israeli history professor, and his research is solid.

    MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2, the link would probably work for your question as well.
    Thanks for the link!

  12. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jlasoon View Post
    If you haven't been to that part of the world "SHHH". Your argument reminds me of stupid Democrats who blame our economic woes on George Bush. Yes, he may of helped in the destruction, but the reality is that 100 years of Fed policy has killed our economy.

    Like I said, you see Zionism, but I see religious zeal, the Crusades, the Muslim Conquests and everything in-between including the BOOK OF GENESIS.
    I know the Book. From Genesis to Revelation.

    Khazars and Zionists are on the wrong side of this.
    I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
    I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
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  13. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwax23 View Post
    Hamas has launched over 200 rockets and various missiles into Israel since this began. 8 Israelis are dead. Israel did not "Attack Gaza" as the thread title seems to pretend. Israel is defending itself.
    Exactly!

    The anti-semitic people in here don't understand the difference between aggression and defense. Imagine yourself surrounded by a dozen pit pulls foaming at the mouth to kill you. Several launch themselves at you and you kick one in the stomach. According to PETA, your the bad guy. The Jewish people are only 13 million worldwide while Muslims are 1 billion. Stop blaming the Jews for everyone else's problems. The Jewish people just want to be left alone on their tiny land they reside on which btw 20% of those people are Arabs. Where are the Jews living in those Arab countries surrounding Israel? Oh that's right, they were all killed or kicked out.

    Hamas are launching rockets to KILL. Israel are launching rockets back to take out Hamas' ability to launch such rockets. Know the fucking difference.

    If Muslims give up their weapons, there will be peace. If Jews give up their weapons, there will be genocide.
    Last edited by Liberty74; 11-17-2012 at 01:57 PM.
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  14. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liberty74 View Post
    Where are the Jews living in those Arab countries surrounding Israel? Oh that's right, they were all killed or kicked out.
    The largest Jewish population in the Middle-East outside of Israel is in Iran. The Iranian Jews are even guaranteed seats in the Iranian legislature.
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  15. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeroneous View Post
    Not trying to derail this thread, but does anyone have a recommendation for a good book pertaining to the creation of Israel or its history in general? I would prefer something without bias, although I know that's going to be next to impossible to come by. This is one aspect of international relations that I have to admit to being very uneducated about.
    "The Alienation of a Homeland:How Palestine Became Israel*"
    by Stephen P. Halbrook

    The Journal of Libertarian Studies, Vol. V, No. 4 (Fall 1981)

  16. #105
    Master Skeptic Brian4Liberty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liberty74 View Post
    Exactly!

    The anti-semitic people in here don't understand the difference between aggression and defense. Imagine yourself surrounded by a dozen pit pulls foaming at the mouth to kill you. Several launch themselves at you and you kick one in the stomach. According to PETA, your the bad guy. The Jewish people are only 13 million worldwide while Muslims are 1 billion. Stop blaming the Jews for everyone else's problems. The Jewish people just want to be left alone on their tiny land they reside on which btw 20% of those people are Arabs. Where are the Jews living in those Arab countries surrounding Israel? Oh that's right, they were all killed or kicked out.

    Hamas are launching rockets to KILL. Israel are launching rockets back to take out Hamas' ability to launch such rockets. Know the fucking difference.

    If Muslims give up their weapons, there will be peace. If Jews give up their weapons, there will be genocide.
    What anti-semites? People opposed to war are automatically anti-semites? Nice.

    And there have been Jewish people for centuries in all of the major nations in the Middle-East. It has been the post 9/11 wars and separatist violence that has resulted in massive ethnic cleansing, which has displaced many people, including Jews, Christians, and people of various Muslim sects that have found themselves suddenly in the wrong neighborhood or village.

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  17. #106

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jlasoon View Post
    Peaceful for the most part? LOL. Get out of here. Your bias is glaring. Both sides have their religious nuts. LET THEM FIGHT!!! Intervention is futile. If you've never been to that part of the world, I would suggest you keep your mouth shut.

    This goes beyond Zionism.
    I've been there. May I speak?

    n/m I don't need your permission.

    Why do we care what Israel or the Palestinians do to each other to resolve their conflicts? People need to stop meddling with other people's sh*t. Let the strong survive, and let the weak be decimated. Protect yourself, your family, and fight for your country, forget about this crap. Most would be terrified if I was Netanyahu. This crap has nothing to do with borders, or rights, or freedom. This has everything to do with religion. Rationality has no place in this conflict. Let one side wipe the floor with the other, and lets all move on. This escalation every few years is getting old, really old. Defending one side over another is infuriating and nauseating at the same time. LET THEM FIGHT, they've been doing it for thousands of years.
    You are simply repeating propaganda.
    In this world nothing is certain but death and taxes.

  18. #107
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  19. #108

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    I know the Book. From Genesis to Revelation.

    Khazars and Zionists are on the wrong side of this.
    Pete, you are awesome! I'd really like to spend hours chatting with you and comparing notes - maybe in the next life.
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  20. #109

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    Quote Originally Posted by robert68 View Post
    "The Alienation of a Homeland:How Palestine Became Israel*"
    by Stephen P. Halbrook

    The Journal of Libertarian Studies, Vol. V, No. 4 (Fall 1981)
    Thanks for the recommendation! I'll check it out.

  21. #110

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    It is not "anti-semitism"

    Palestinians are mostly Semite,, Zionists are mostly NOT.

    They are Khazar ancestry,, and that would make them Japhetic. (as am I)
    I read quite awhile ago that some jewish? guy said, he hoped he wasn't jewish and actually from Khazar as he was getting tired of being blamed for killing Jesus.

  22. #111

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    Can somebody please summarize the history between Israel and the Palestinians for me? I don't have the time to research it in depth and cut through all the propaganda from both sides.

    My intuition tells me that Israel is the aggressor and the worse of the two evils. Antiwar.com seems to present this narrative as well. So, what is really going on with the whole situation?

  23. #112

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    Start at about 2:45









    Anti Semite = Pro Israel
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  24. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenBowman View Post
    Pretty dumb to declare open war against someone 100x stronger than you.

    BRB challenging Mike Tyson to a boxing match, crying when I lose saying its unfair.
    If Mike Tyson killed your mom after your uncle had killed Mike Tyson's pet tiger who had in turn previously maimed your cousin's friend who had previously worn a tiger-skin coat that had once belonged to Mike Tyon's manager but had to be sold at auction because the manager was in debt to your sister... then it'd be more like this.

    I had to actually explain to my mom that Hamas did not just wake up and decide to fire rockets at Israel.
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  25. #114

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    The original "anti-semites" used the term to label themselves. It was a pseudo-scientific term they invented to basically lump Jews together racially with Arabs, a supreme insult in anti-Arab, anti-Muslim Europe.

    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...lhelmMarr.html

    Marr’s conception of antisemitism focused on the supposed racial, as opposed to religious, characteristics of the Jews. His organization, the League of Antisemites, introduced the word “antisemite” into the political lexicon and established the first popular political movement based entirely on anti-Jewish beliefs.
    The driving force historically for "anti-semitism" is European hatred of North Africans & Middle Easterners. For instance Gypsies were ethnically cleansed during WWII and are still suffering profoundly from racism in Europe. The term "Gypsy" comes from falsely equating them to EGYPtians.

    There are many theories about the driving force for the Nazi holocaust, however there is little evidence that it came from systemic cultural Jew hatred in Germany. Hitler appeared to have a personal pathological hatred of Jews which appeared to have been turned into government policy in the later part of WWII. Nazi Germany, being like all modern Western "democracies," was susceptible to the whims and stupidity of individual leaders, with disastrous consequences to millions of innocent people, a policy problem that is still going on today with virtually all Western "democracies."

    Of course the correlation between the holocaust & attacking Palestine is a connection born in only the most viscous and pathological of world views. There are lots of ugly things driving the current situation in the Middle East. A few stray Muslim blow back practitioners certainly aren't the primary driving forces.
    Last edited by furface; 11-17-2012 at 05:19 PM.

  26. #115

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    Can somebody please summarize the history between Israel and the Palestinians for me? I don't have the time to research it in depth and cut through all the propaganda from both sides.
    Jews believe in a spiritual place called Israel that God gives to the righteous. Jews get gassed by million in WWII... UN gives Zionists most of Palestine and names it "Israel". Only Jews have rights in this newly created land. Non jews say WTF we've been here for generations? They go to war. Lose. Zionist Israel occupies the rest of Palestine (gaza/west bank) and imposes themselves on this occupied land w/ illegal settlements. UN says its fucked... but lets it slide. US finances it all. Muslims throw rocks and mortars at the illegal settlements... occasionally into Israel proper. Few injuries... but persistent petty rock and mortar attacks on what was once theirs. Israel tends to bomb the shit out of them and bulldoze any trace.

    This is generally the face of israel:




    And this is the face of palestine:




    You've got a running average of about 10 Palestinian children killed per Israeli child for the past 2-3 decades.

    do your own research, this is a good start:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli...inian_conflict

    I tend to take the anti-Israel stance.

    From those 3 videos above... the last one; Jimmy C from 2:20 - 2:40 is my bottom line on the whole situation.
    Last edited by presence; 11-17-2012 at 06:00 PM.
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  27. #116

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    ...but when the trumpets blew again and the knights charged, the name they cried was "Stannis! Stannis! STANNIS!"

  28. #117

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    Quote Originally Posted by presence View Post
    I tend to take the anti-Israel stance.
    I never could've guessed.
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  29. #118

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    Quote Originally Posted by mport1 View Post
    Can somebody please summarize the history between Israel and the Palestinians for me? I don't have the time to research it in depth and cut through all the propaganda from both sides.

    My intuition tells me that Israel is the aggressor and the worse of the two evils. Antiwar.com seems to present this narrative as well. So, what is really going on with the whole situation?
    In the 1800's nationalism and socialism were on the rise as ideas. (Germany did not become a nation until 1871).
    Jewish intellectuals, like so many other nationalities, began to define what makes a Jew a Jew, (like Serbs, Germans, Ukrianians, etc were doing.)
    The came zionism, in the 1890's founded by Thedor Herzl, and the hope for a homeland.
    The idea was to buy a bunch of land somewhere, and create a socialist or communist state: New York, Argentina (who was actively recruiting Europeans in attempts to modernize) or Israel.

    At the time, palestine was owned by the crumbling and distant Ottoman empire, and there were no states so to speak of in the region.
    After WW I, the Ottoman Empire vanished, and the Brits got the area known as Palestine.
    The Brits tried to limit the influx of Jewish settlers between the wars, but failed, and militant anti-Brit, (Brits were seen as pro-arab) organizations were formed, like Irgun and Hergannah. After the holocaust, these organizations became as extremist as you would expect a people who lost 6 million of their own would, and started a bombing/terror campaign against Brits and Arabs.

    Brits didn't want to deal with it. And in 1947, they went to the UN, and proposed a two state settlement. Zionists had bought 6% of the land, had 31% of the population,. but were given 48% of the land, and Arabs, the other 52%. America, under Truman, was the first to say OK, and many nations followed. Israel became a state. Within a week, the Arab states surrounding Israel invaded, on behalf of the Palestinians, because they wanted to get rid of the Palestinian immigrant problem, and for their own personal ambitions. (most of these states were brand new post-colonial monarchies propped up by Britain and France).

    They surely could have won, except that they had no coordination, and no common goal. Jordan was the most successful of the war, but after seizing the west bank and part of Jerusalem, stopped, the King happy with his gains. The paramilitary groups in Israel slaughtered Palestinians, and many fled the country. Zionist narrative says the Palestinians fled because they thought victory was near, Palestinian narrative says they fled because they feared for their lives. End result was all who fled were not allowed back in, and their homes, farms and plantations were seized and given to Jews.

    In 1976, The Arab states again decided to go to war with Israel, under Egypt's Nasser, who was hoping to form a pan-Arabic state, and because all of the nations around Israel were sick of supporting and dealing with Palestinian refugees, who were starting to cause violence in their new host countries. At this time, the Arab world was westernizing. Women wore miniskirts and beehives, western music, everything. The Arabs were sure they would win, because their cause was just. But they were defeated handily. Israel took the West Bank, Gaza, the Sinai, and the Golan Heights. Only the Sinai was returned after 1982.

    This is when Islamist fundamentalism really took of, and gained hold in popular culture. Arabs felt they had lost because they were sinful, and no longer following the teachings of Islam.

    Since 1976, Israel has been slowly seizing lands in the west bank, and the Golan heights, and turning them into state-sponsored settlements for Jews only. Palestinian groups have been committing bombing/terrorist campaign and demanding everything from the destruction of Israel, to the right of return (Palestinians are not allowed to immigrate to Israel, as Israel is a Jewish state, and does not want to be outnumbered by Arabs) to their own state.
    Last edited by UWDude; 11-17-2012 at 06:42 PM.

  30. #119

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    I think RP forums does great harm in reinforcing racist stereotypes people have of RP's ideas by always wading full on into debating who is right and whole is wrong in a conflicts in the world, we should just wipe our hands of.
    I have long heard the argument that we have to take sides because israel has undue influence on the US foreign policy. They do, however I will argue the the british actually have Far far more influence than the Israelis. They have actually dragged us into huge wars. The British have actually invaded 90% of the nations of the world. Many of the problems in the middle east are the result the country boundries draw by the British including israel and palestine however I am not seeing long threads on the british.
    The british can do what the british can do but I just want the US to stay out of wars other nations get themselves into.
    I want our country to mind our own business including people on these forums.
    If people truely believed in RP they should note RP would not even vote for a resolution condeming other countries obvious atrocities. Why? Because he believes that even chosing sides with no actual physical support was interfering in other nations.
    War; everything in the world wrong, evil and immoral combined into one and multiplied by millions.

  31. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by klamath View Post
    I think RP forums does great harm in reinforcing racist stereotypes people have of RP's ideas by always wading full on into debating who is right and whole is wrong in a conflicts in the world, we should just wipe our hands of. I have long heard the argument that we have to take sides because israel has undue influence on the US foreign policy. They do, however I will argue the the british actually have Far far more influence than the Israelis. They have actually dragged us into huge wars. The British have actually invaded 90% of the nations of the world. Many of the problems in the middle east are the result the country boundries draw by the British including israel and palestine however I am not seeing long threads on the british.
    The british can do what the british can do but I just want the US to stay out of wars other nations get themselves into.
    I want our country to mind our own business including people on these forums.
    If people truely believed in RP they should note RP would not even vote for a resolution condeming other countries obvious atrocities. Why? Because he believes that even chosing sides with no actual physical support was interfering in other nations.
    And if someone got that impression, I would ask them to reread the thread and look to see precisely how many people have taken a side. Of those, how many are advocating some sort of action on the United States' part? You can still take a personal side on something, and not want to legislate it. Ron Paul does that on a large number of issues.
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