Morality of Not Paying Taxes

[NoOneButPaul]

I got into an argument with a guy who was claiming I was stealing from all of America if I didn't pay my taxes and how immoral it was not to contribute my part etc etc etc...

I was so utterly shocked I didn't know what to say... he doesn't understand the immorality of the taxation to begin with? Damn... that's the type of stuff that makes me realize how far gone we still are.

He was a Democrat but it still blew my mind... "we're immoral, greedy, and disgusting crooks" (yes his exact words) if we don't pay our taxes.


Can someone please rip this to pieces so I can go to bed?

[Odin]

Whatever money the government takes, that does not go toward the efficient protection of our freedom, is theft plain and simple imo.

However I do think a small amount of taxes are justified in a free society.

[Odin]

I'll just add that I've heard it said that the government has 3 main ways of controlling the people - 'force of arms,' 'force of numbers,' and 'bewildering propaganda.'

Unfortunately in our country all three are prevalent, and your friend seems to buy into it.

"Force of arms" - "give us your property because we have guns and handcuffs and prisons"
"Force of numbers" - "give us your property because the mob says so"
"Bewildering propaganda" - "If you object to this tyranny, and you object to your property being taken by force, you are stealing from America."

[Carehn]

I was going to write something but then I realized its already been made into a book.
http://www.amazon.com/Atlas-Shrugged.../dp/0451191145

[Carehn]

Honestly OP. If you are just now waking up ( by that I mean the past couple of years) try reading this book. You think you are awake now. Just hold on till Rand is done with you. Awake lol this book is like doing an 8 ball of coke.

[mport1]

How is avoiding paying a robber immoral? If a mugger comes up to you on the street and you can somehow get away with not handing over your wallet, are you performing an immoral act.

People who do not pay taxes are heroes. They are not contributing to the murder, injury, and imprisonment of millions of innocent people. At least a mugger may do something positive with your stolen money. The government only engages in destructive activities.

[mport1]

However I do think a small amount of taxes are justified in a free society.

How is the initiation of force on peaceful people justified? If I'm forced against my will to pay the state at the point of a gun, how am I free? Taxation is ALWAYS theft and immoral.

[NoOneButPaul]

Honestly OP. If you are just now waking up ( by that I mean the past couple of years) try reading this book. You think you are awake now. Just hold on till Rand is done with you. Awake lol this book is like doing an 8 ball of coke.

I've only been reading economics books for the last 12months when I really started to get into the literature...

I haven't even gotten into Rand yet (in part because a lot of people here really seemed to hate her) and because it didn't apply to the Austrian school.

I really think Atlas Shrugged is next... i'm re-reading Economics in 1 Lesson right now because i'm bored.


I mean... seriously? I also take the approach people that do not pay their taxes are heros and the fact someone could take the complete opposite approach (hell i dont even expect someone to take my approach, but disgusting greedy crooks? seriously?) just literally blew me out of my skull...

[Odin]

How is the initiation of force on peaceful people justified? If I'm forced against my will to pay the state at the point of a gun, how am I free? Taxation is ALWAYS theft and immoral.

Not if you consent to it. And 'consent' does not necessarily mean 'embrace'.

Let me put it another way - do you think that the government forcing you to feed your children, is immoral? I believe a moral obligation kicks in, one that we as free people must rationally consent to.

We will get into this more deeply but I would like to know your answer to that question.

[Odin]

I've only been reading economics books for the last 12months when I really started to get into the literature...

I haven't even gotten into Rand yet (in part because a lot of people here really seemed to hate her) and because it didn't apply to the Austrian school.

I really think Atlas Shrugged is next... i'm re-reading Economics in 1 Lesson right now because i'm bored.


I mean... seriously? I also take the approach people that do not pay their taxes are heros and the fact someone could take the complete opposite approach (hell i dont even expect someone to take my approach, but disgusting greedy crooks? seriously?) just literally blew me out of my skull...

My advice, for what it's worth, and being someone who has read a LOT of philosophy, is to avoid Ayn Rand. You will get a superficial explanation of libertarianism, based on all the wrong principles imo.

If you want to read something that is truly brilliant and will make you question everything and think about everything, you should read Nietzsche.