Can we stop saying Republicans lost because of social issues.

[Origanalist]

Is abortion the only social issue?

[EBounding]

Were social issues brought up at all during the debates? I don't remember any significant discussion on them.

[Brian4Liberty]

First off, most of the people who voted for Obama would have voted for him no matter what. They are nanny-state Democrats, and the propaganda and faux outrage is just a big show.

That being said, their propaganda was particularly effective this year. Many women this year have been saying the GOP wanted to take away their rights, and that there was a "war on women". This was further enforced by Murdock and Akin falling easy prey to loaded questions which resulted in soundbites which could be used ad-nausuem by the media.

You know, the rhetoric was pretty hard core this year. Yes, there are people who will not budge one way or the other on abortion and other social issues. Those people are not swing voters. But the debate really got out of hand this time. Frankly, women are a sizable voting block, and when the GOP aligns itself with people who wish to legislate morality and view women as breeders, you'll find the female vote will largely reject the guy at the top of the ticket. In fact, you'll find that some women who have made the decision to birth, love, and raise a child conceived in rape will reject the dogma at the voting booth. Spin it any way you want, but women were pissed off this cycle. It's a fact. Granted, Romney had much more trouble than just that, but the hard core theocratic rhetoric from portions of the GOP did not help.

Well put.

...
The whole War on Women is the Democrats insisting that we can't survive without them. Break apart the family, put women on the dole, then tell them that nobody loves them like Big Brother. I disgusting, and the women who buy into it are the same type that marry wife beaters and alcoholics.

Yep.

"Don't worry, Obama loves you. He and Hillary will take care of you. They are your new Husband and Mommy."

[angelatc]

I absolutely agree that there were other factors at play, and I stated as much. But man, I am finding myself apologizing to my friends that I'm on the county GOP committee. Some of them are pretty sure that I've sold out the entire gender. To think that social issues did not play any part in the outcome of the election is naive. It did. The Dems supported Obamacare. Romney also supported most of Obamacare, but the GOP was dead set against it including anything associated with female reproduction. They didn't single out gall bladder surgery or diabetes. They singled out birth control.

I didn't frame debate. I'm just trying to explain why my female friends think the GOP is bonkers.

YOu need to hang out with a higher class of females. You even bought the messaging.

Romney said he wanted to overturn Obamacare on day one. They didn't single out birth control. Some college lesbian made headlines for not being able to afford $10 a month for pills, and suddenly the Democrats are asserting that the mean old GOP is going to outlaw birth control.

Seriously, how did we ever manage to not get pregnant without government assistance?

[RockEnds]

YOu need to hang out with a higher class of females.

Yeah, don't miss the chance to insult my friends and family. I'll message my DIL and my step-mom right now and tell them they're beneath me.

You don't have to listen what what's being explained, but please don't insult the people I love.

[EBounding]

A much better test of the popularity of the party as a whole is to look at the elections to the House of Representatives. The Republicans won 234 races, the Democrats won 197. In other words, the Republicans did not do as well as they did in 2010, but they did better than they did in 2008, 2006, 2002, 2000, 1998, 1996, 1994, 1992, 1990, 1988, 1986, 1984, etc. etc. etc. Not that you would guess that from listening to the pundits.


Anyone who is saying that the Republican Party had a terrible election this year is simply ignorant.

And almost all the people attributing this mythical electoral disaster to social issues are (surprise, surprise) people who are hostile to social conservativism.

That's a good assessment. In Michigan, the state legistlature remained in control of the Republicans which is pretty good considering the Democrat President and Senator won their elections. The democrats did devastate some pockets of normal "Republican Strongholds". In my county, all county positions except for 2 turned democrat. The county GOP's heads are still spinning.

[Sola_Fide]

There's a big difference between social conservatism and having the government dictate social conservatism. The first is real conservatism, the second is progressivism for a different cause.

Well said.

[angelatc]

I think the disgusting social views of the GOP were a large reason for their loss. People aren't going to stand for their views for much longer.

Which social views are disgusting? And what are people going to do when they refuse to stand for "it?"

The youth of today are disgusting, IMHO. They have no morals, and get angry because other people do?

[angelatc]

There's a big difference between social conservatism and having the government dictate social conservatism. The first is real conservatism, the second is progressivism for a different cause.

Yes, but the GOP is conservative, which is inclusive of supporting governments that encourage social conservatism. The GOP is not libertarian. The liberals want us to be poor, and destryoing the family unit from all angles is the best way to accomplish that.

[angelatc]

Yeah, don't miss the chance to insult my friends and family. I'll message my DIL and my step-mom right now and tell them they're beneath me.

You don't have to listen what what's being explained, but please don't insult the people I love.

You can give them my phone number and I'll insult them personally, if that's more comfortable.

[CaptUSA]

They didn't single out birth control. Some college lesbian made headlines for not being able to afford $10 a month for pills, and suddenly the Democrats are asserting that the mean old GOP is going to outlaw birth control.

Seriously, how did we ever manage to not get pregnant without government assistance?

Seriously, how did lesbians ever manage to not get pregnant without birth control?!

[Brian4Liberty]

The bottom line is that President Obama won re-election because 50% of the American people approved of his job performance on election day. That's the percentage of the vote he received nation wide. 50% of the American people support adding 6 trillion dollars in debt, starting additional wars, locking up Americans without giving them a trial, increasing regulations on American businesses, and giving out free abortion and contraception to anyone who wants it. Like Ron Paul said, our country is far gone.

A vast percentage of the population has been reduced to living paycheck to paycheck. 47.1 million are now on food stamps. Many are employed directly and indirectly by Fed/State/Local government. Government is forever, private sector jobs are not important. They don't care about the national debt or declining dollar or the economy. They don't see it as a problem that effects them in any way. Obama will take care of them, one way or another. Food stamps, welfare or government job, take your pick.

[RockEnds]

You can give them my phone number and I'll insult them personally, if that's more comfortable.

I have a homeschool event today, Angela. You'll have to insult people without me. Carry on.

[CaptUSA]

Yes, but the GOP is conservative, which is inclusive of supporting governments that encourage social conservatism. The GOP is not libertarian. The liberals want us to be poor, and destryoing the family unit from all angles is the best way to accomplish that.

Encourage? I'm ok with "encourage". I'm socially conservative. I just don't believe in using my government to get other people to stop taking drugs, stop engaging in homosexual relationships, or giving special benefits to those who get married or engage in what I believe it "correct" behavior.

[Origanalist]

I absolutely agree that there were other factors at play, and I stated as much. But man, I am finding myself apologizing to my friends that I'm on the county GOP committee. Some of them are pretty sure that I've sold out the entire gender. To think that social issues did not play any part in the outcome of the election is naive. It did. The Dems supported Obamacare. Romney also supported most of Obamacare, but the GOP was dead set against it including anything associated with female reproduction. They didn't single out gall bladder surgery or diabetes. They singled out birth control.

I didn't frame debate. I'm just trying to explain why my female friends think the GOP is bonkers.

I don't remember anyone being against female reproduction, or even birth control.

[angelatc]

I have a homeschool event today, Angela. You'll have to insult people without me. Carry on.

Don't post things like "THe GOP lost because they didn't support Obamacare and birth control and it scared women" and not expect those women to get called out on it. If you don't want your female friends mocked, then leave their opinions out of the discussion.

[angelatc]

I don't remember anyone being against female reproduction, or even birth control.

Romney ran on a promise to overturn Obamacare on day 1.

He ran a crappy campaign. When the "Romney killed a woman who had cancer!" ads came out, he didn't call them out on the overt lie. His brilliant campaign's response was that if she lived in Massachusetts, she would have had coverage.

The Democrats are effective demagogues, and if you challenge them on anything, you're a rude neanderthal. Racist, too. But if you refuse to challenge them at all, then you're just a wimp.

[angelatc]

Encourage? I'm ok with "encourage". I'm socially conservative. I just don't believe in using my government to get other people to stop taking drugs, stop engaging in homosexual relationships, or giving special benefits to those who get married or engage in what I believe it "correct" behavior.

Me too, but that's not an accurate representation of the GOP base. That's the libertarian position.

[CaptUSA]

Me too, but that's not an accurate representation of the GOP base. That's the libertarian position.

Well, yeah. But that's what I'm saying. The position of the conservative base on social issues is being rejected. While it's not enough to make them lose elections, it does matter. Why? Because when they have to defend their positions, they often end up looking like idiots. And people don't want idiots working on economic issues either.

Democrats know this. That's why they push the social issues so hard. It makes the GOP base position look dumb.

[angelatc]

A vast percentage of the population has been reduced to living paycheck to paycheck. 47.1 million are now on food stamps. Many are employed directly and indirectly by Fed/State/Local government. Government is forever, private sector jobs are not important. They don't care about the national debt or declining dollar or the economy. They don't see it as a problem that effects them in any way. Obama will take care of them, one way or another. Food stamps, welfare or government job, take your pick.

Sure, and this isn't the political time to run on a platform of cutting out social welfare. The time to do that was in the boom days, when unemployment was below the natural level. But the GOP expanded the entitlement base at the juncture, and caved on privatizing Social Security.

[GunnyFreedom]

The bottom line is that President Obama won re-election because 50% of the American people approved of his job performance on election day. That's the percentage of the vote he received nation wide. 50% of the American people support adding 6 trillion dollars in debt, starting additional wars, locking up Americans without giving them a trial, increasing regulations on American businesses, and giving out free abortion and contraception to anyone who wants it. Like Ron Paul said, our country is far gone.

Not true. 50% of those who voted in the smallest turnout election in 12 years (probably 50 years adjusted for population inflation) thought they would be better off under Obama than Romney.

That's not even close to 50% of the American people.

Obama won 60,602,406 votes. There are 314,760,173 people in the United States.

So that means 19.2% of Americans voted for Obama. Not 50%.

It makes a difference.

[angelatc]

Well, yeah. But that's what I'm saying. The position of the conservative base on social issues is being rejected. While it's not enough to make them lose elections, it does matter. Why? Because when they have to defend their positions, they often end up looking like idiots. And people don't want idiots working on economic issues either.

I disagree that the GOP positions on Social issues are being rejected. Exploited, yes. Rejected, no.

But even if it is true, the GOP gains no voters from caving to that pressure. With liberals, it's always about the money. Everything else is just window dressing.

[aclove]

Gunny is right. Campaign for Liberty has been teaching for years at its Grassroots Activist Schools that you don't need 50%+1 to win elections, you only need the 3% swing vote. That's exactly what Obama got, and that's how he won. Why that 3% swing vote went to him and not Romney is because Romney did not present a consistent, principled case for returning to the Constitutional Order, and that's what we have to spend the next 4 years convincing the main-line Tea Party if we expect to elect Rand in 2016.

[CaptUSA]

I disagree that the GOP positions on Social issues are being rejected. Exploited, yes. Rejected, no.

But even if it is true, the GOP gains no voters from caving to that pressure. With liberals, it's always about the money. Everything else is just window dressing.

Ok, right. I think we're coming to the same understanding. Exploited is probably a better term.

The way I see it, if they want this to stop being exploited, they have 3 options.
1. Cave in - stupid and wouldn't work anyway.
2. Find a way to better communicate their positions - Going to be hard since everything they say is open to demagoguery
3. Adopt a more libertarian position on social issues - They get to keep their principles and it's more inclusive since each person is an individual.

Until they do one of these, the democrats have figured out how to make republicans look dumb. And it works. And when the low-info voter sees your party as dumb, it spills over into economic issues.

[Butchie]

I absolutely agree that there were other factors at play, and I stated as much. But man, I am finding myself apologizing to my friends that I'm on the county GOP committee. Some of them are pretty sure that I've sold out the entire gender. To think that social issues did not play any part in the outcome of the election is naive. It did. The Dems supported Obamacare. Romney also supported most of Obamacare, but the GOP was dead set against it including anything associated with female reproduction. They didn't single out gall bladder surgery or diabetes. They singled out birth control.

I didn't frame debate. I'm just trying to explain why my female friends think the GOP is bonkers.

OK, so you are surrounded by a group of women who feel that way, come to my town where most women are conservative, you will find the exact opposite. That was my point, the social issues are generally divided 50/50, they are not going to win or lose you an election.

[nasaal]

It is the biggest reason they lost. People really were ready to vote Obama out. Mitt was a horrible candidate, but the social issues make people hate you.

[nasaal]

OK, so you are surrounded by a group of women who feel that way, come to my town where most women are conservative, you will find the exact opposite. That was my point, the social issues are generally divided 50/50, they are not going to win or lose you an election.

They are not split 50/50, and they are not split 50/50 throughout all the battlegrounds.

[Origanalist]

It is the biggest reason they lost. People really were ready to vote Obama out. Mitt was a horrible candidate, but the social issues make people hate you.

They do no such thing, hate is not forced on a person unwillingly.

[nasaal]

They do no such thing, hate is not forced on a person unwillingly.

Semantics have no place in this debate. People choose to hate republicans when they make a big deal of social issues.

[Butchie]

They are not split 50/50, and they are not split 50/50 throughout all the battlegrounds.

You keep thinking that buddy. If the GOP embraces abortion and gay marriage I promise you they will never win another election, ever.

Semantics have no place in this debate. People choose to hate republicans when they make a big deal of social issues.

Funny, I watched MSNBC and FOX news a week before the election just to test this theory, FOX spent about 10% of it's time talking about gays and abortion, MSNBC spent over 60% of it's time speaking about those issues, was just my own personal test, but try it yourself, see who brings it up more. Libs spend FAR more time talking about those issues than cons do.