Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 43

Thread: Is it true that there's a oil boom in North Dakota right now?

  1. #1

    Default Is it true that there's a oil boom in North Dakota right now?

    Well, my question actually is this : does such a boom bring in more jobs than the oil jobs themselves?

    Construction for new houses, food and catering, education, entertainment, transportation, IT infrastructure, city planning...etc.

    Why aren't we hearing about this more as a solution to unemployment? Is it because it's not there or not big enough?

    Surely, if it was so promising, the employers would advertise in highly unemployed areas to recruit people, right?

    Can ND be another Free State project target?



  2. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  3. #2

    Default

    Yes, the boom is real. And yes, the boom-industry is real too. Once the upfront-drilling and construction of infrastructure is in place, jobs will taper off. We are hearing about it as a solution for unemployment, but these are often skilled labor jobs so they're not going to hire just any average Joe. Employers probably use headhunter firms and contract with various smaller firms and relocate them to the area.

    I'm by no means an expert, just some dude on the net. I would argue that these things are happening, but the effect is only seen at the margins. (As with all economics)
    "The average person figures that the president tells the truth, the vice president tells the truth, the secretary of state tell the truth; and they don't. They don't. The founders understood that people would be flawed, that political leaders would not be the best of men so they set forth the constitution. We don't follow the constitution in this country; had we done so in 2001 and 2002, the world would be a different place" - Karen Kwiatkowski

  4. #3
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Deep South
    Posts
    2,882

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tpoints View Post
    Well, my question actually is this : does such a boom bring in more jobs than the oil jobs themselves?
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tpoints View Post
    Construction for new houses, food and catering, education, entertainment, transportation, IT infrastructure, city planning...etc.
    Yes. Regarding entertainment, there are a lot of stripper jobs up there. Or so I hear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tpoints View Post
    Why aren't we hearing about this more as a solution to unemployment? Is it because it's not there or not big enough?
    A solution to unemployment? How? There isn't oil everywhere and there's only a finite number of jobs created. It's not like Obama can sign an executive order and massive oil reserves will suddenly appear in Nevada where unemployment is highest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tpoints View Post
    Surely, if it was so promising, the employers would advertise in highly unemployed areas to recruit people, right?
    I'm sure they have.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tpoints View Post
    Can ND be another Free State project target?
    Definitely. It's a small state, relatively republican/conservative, good economy, relatively rural, low taxes. Ron Paul did quite well there during their caucuses (but got screwed over at the convention). The fact that it's small could make it a very easy target.

  5. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by deadfish View Post
    Yes, the boom is real. And yes, the boom-industry is real too. Once the upfront-drilling and construction of infrastructure is in place, jobs will taper off. We are hearing about it as a solution for unemployment, but these are often skilled labor jobs so they're not going to hire just any average Joe. Employers probably use headhunter firms and contract with various smaller firms and relocate them to the area.

    I'm by no means an expert, just some dude on the net. I would argue that these things are happening, but the effect is only seen at the margins. (As with all economics)
    I can see that the oil jobs themselves require skill, connection and experience. But not so much for the "auxillary" ones, laundry, house cleaning, babysitting, car repair, restaurants...etc. I do want to know more details if anybody has some.

  6. #5
    Member Keith and stuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    The Live Free or Die state
    Posts
    9,430
    Blog Entries
    67

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tpoints View Post
    Can ND be another Free State project target?
    ND was 1 of the 10 states voted on in the which state vote the FSP held. ND came in LAST by a good margin.
    Lifetime member of more than 1 national gun organization and the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance. Part of Young Americans for Liberty and Campaign for Liberty. Free State Project participant and multi-year Free Talk Live AMPlifier.

  7. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Confederate View Post
    Yes.

    Yes. Regarding entertainment, there are a lot of stripper jobs up there. Or so I hear.

    A solution to unemployment? How? There isn't oil everywhere and there's only a finite number of jobs created. It's not like Obama can sign an executive order and massive oil reserves will suddenly appear in Nevada where unemployment is highest.

    I'm sure they have.

    Definitely. It's a small state, relatively republican/conservative, good economy, relatively rural, low taxes. Ron Paul did quite well there during their caucuses (but got screwed over at the convention). The fact that it's small could make it a very easy target.
    thanks! do you know what "stage" they are at? As in, how much longer it'll last before it's either saturated with workers or oil is all sucked up?

    Yes, there's always a finite number of jobs created, and that's my question, how many oil jobs can we expect to create?

    Can we expect that for every 1 oil job created, there's 2 "non oil jobs" created to support the person's lifestyle?
    Last edited by Tpoints; 11-12-2012 at 04:17 PM.

  8. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith and stuff View Post
    ND was 1 of the 10 states voted on in the which state vote the FSP held. ND came in LAST by a good margin.
    but obviously that was before the boom, which is relatively new news, right?

  9. #8
    Member Keith and stuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    The Live Free or Die state
    Posts
    9,430
    Blog Entries
    67

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tpoints View Post
    but obviously that was before the boom, which is relatively new news, right?
    The boom makes it harder for folks to move to ND, not easier.
    Lifetime member of more than 1 national gun organization and the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance. Part of Young Americans for Liberty and Campaign for Liberty. Free State Project participant and multi-year Free Talk Live AMPlifier.

  10. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith and stuff View Post
    The boom makes it harder for folks to move to ND, not easier.
    because it's short lived? or what?

  11. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by deadfish View Post
    We are hearing about it as a solution for unemployment, but these are often skilled labor jobs so they're not going to hire just any average Joe. Employers probably use headhunter firms and contract with various smaller firms and relocate them to the area.
    I know guys that have possibly the lowest IQ out of people I know, and they have these types of jobs. You really do not need to be skilled as they provide on the job training in most places and most times have people that supervise and tell you what to do etc. There isn't that much skill involved in moving a part over, laying it on a pipe and then having the machine pick it up and you guide it down onto the other pipe. It's fairly simple really.

  12. #11
    Member Keith and stuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    The Live Free or Die state
    Posts
    9,430
    Blog Entries
    67

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tpoints View Post
    because it's short lived? or what?
    Right, it won't last so all of the infrastructure needed for the added workers is not being built. Because of that, it is harder to get a motel room, eat at a restaurant, stay at a campground and so on in much of ND than it used to be. The boom is likely good for ND and good for the US, but it isn't good for famlies looking to vote with their feet. It is great for single men without kids looking for jobs and willing to live is in a tight, uncomfortable living situation, though.

    Read about it.
    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2...-jobs/1674409/

    This 24-year old father from Minneapolis came here looking for work.

    He lived in his car for the first couple weeks and much of his possessions still do; this while his girlfriend and 2-year-old daughter live back home in Minneapolis.

    "This is my favorite picture," he said of his daughter.

    "How often do you look at those?" asked reporter Jay Olstad.

    "I try not to actually, try to keep my mind off of it," he replied.

    Barely making ends meet in the Twin Cities, he made the difficult decision to temporarily leave his family behind in hopes of finding a better life here.

    The only problem, if you don't have experience in the oil fields, finding a job at one of the oil companies is almost as hard as finding a place to sleep.

    There are so many people here. The population has nearly doubled in only a few years and affordable for some is outrageous to others.

    "$700 a week and they call it affordable housing," he said with a smile, referring to an advertisement for a new hotel in town.

    Pavlacky came to Williston with his brother-in-law Zach Betland.

    "We've been surviving off of Raman noodles and Chef Boyardee," said Betland.

    Both eventually found a place to stay, living in a tent at a campsite 15 miles outside of town.

    Although both had jobs at McDonalds, they could not afford much when we met up with them, eating maybe once a day. Pavlacky says he's lost 15 pounds so far.

    That's why they knew they have to find something better, and fast.

    Tyler spends a lot of his time at the Williston Job Center looking for better jobs. And he's not the only one.

    "I have never seen anything like this before," said Cindy Stanford, the job center manager.

    She says this small office gets 200 people in here a day looking for work.

    "You have to be skilled. You need to have skills. Skilled carpenters, welders, truck drivers," she said.

    And having a place to live helps too.

    "We're telling people who have housing to put it on their resume because that's a plus," she said.

    But there is one thing Williston is not short on, crime.

    "Gun calls have gone up, stabbings, knives, all those kinds of calls have also been on the rise," said Detective Amy Nickoloff with the Williston Police Department.

    Nickoloff is originally from Minnesota, along with almost half of the police department. It's a department that is overwhelmed. Calls for service have increased 260% in just two years.

    She says they are looking to add more staff.

    "It's relatively safe but obviously when you bring in an influx of people you're going to have a higher crime rate," she said.
    Last edited by Keith and stuff; 11-12-2012 at 04:52 PM.
    Lifetime member of more than 1 national gun organization and the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance. Part of Young Americans for Liberty and Campaign for Liberty. Free State Project participant and multi-year Free Talk Live AMPlifier.

  13. #12

    Default

    Extraction taxes from oil from the Bakken and Sanish/Three Forks formations is a major source of revenue for the state, but that doesn't mean it's all being spent into the economy. In fact, most of that state revenue is going toward building enormous surpluses, most of which are not allocated for any use at all.

    Despite the fact that many who were drawn to the oil fields for employment are "making it there to spend it elsewhere", there's no question that the oil boom in ND has had a ripple effect in the overall economy. What most people don't realize, however, is that much of the oil field is isolated from major population centers, and with a shortage of housing, there is a "share cropper" aspect to the oil patch, as rent-seeking developers in the Bakkans have cropped up, like Capital Lodgers [LINK], to capture a sizable portion of the personal income generated by the boom.

    There is another aspect to this that most people aren't aware of, and that is that the industry is now in a drilling phase. Those are the salad days for the oil patch. That lasts for about a generation, and will eventually come to an end.

    The increase in jobs and the demands upon the local area will continue throughout the drilling phase of the industry’s development, which will last for the next 15‐20 years. However, when the industry transitions from the drilling to the production phase, demand for labor in the industry will fall by 90%.

  14. #13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith and stuff View Post
    ND was 1 of the 10 states voted on in the which state vote the FSP held. ND came in LAST by a good margin.
    If we're going to do multiple projects we should really keep it confined to Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, and Nevada for obvious reasons

    It's one thing to strip one of those states of their early voting status, it's a whole other to strip all 4.

    Southerners to SC, Midwesterners to Iowa, Northeasterners to NH, and Westerners to Nevada.

    I certainly don't advocate this at all, NH is great, but multiple FSPs in these states would be devastating to every primary from here until they changed it.
    It's just an opinion... man...

  15. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tpoints View Post
    thanks! do you know what "stage" they are at? As in, how much longer it'll last before it's either saturated with workers or oil is all sucked up?

    Yes, there's always a finite number of jobs created, and that's my question, how many oil jobs can we expect to create?

    Can we expect that for every 1 oil job created, there's 2 "non oil jobs" created to support the person's lifestyle?

    Tpoints, as you can see from the story posted by Keith and stuff, the center of the boom is in the town of Williston. My wife and I are team truck drivers, and we go through North Dakota quite a bit. I've not had any experience directly with Williston, but even the nearby towns like Minot have been feeling the effects from this.

    A couple of years ago, before the boom, a truck wash in Minot was around eighty bucks. Last time I checked, the price had more than doubled. Last time I was in the Wal-Mart in Minot, they had a display in front of the store offering a four dollar per hour bonus - bonus, mind - for anyone willing to hire on and stock shelves overnights. The restaurants were having a hard time hiring staff even at ten and twelve bucks an hour.

    If you have trade skills - welding, machine tools, electrician, pipefitting, heavy equipment operations, etc you can still find some real high-paying jobs. But if you're planning on going there to look for work, be prepared to pay dearly for every amenity, and twice over for housing. Don't take the family. Be prepared for "bunkhouse living" with a bunch of other guys.... and don't plan on camping out like those poor bastards in that news story. The average low in Williston is well below zero in January:



    That's just a bit too cold to be living in a tent, IMHO.

  16. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Douglas View Post
    Extraction taxes from oil from the Bakken and Sanish/Three Forks formations is a major source of revenue for the state, but that doesn't mean it's all being spent into the economy. In fact, most of that state revenue is going toward building enormous surpluses, most of which are not allocated for any use at all.

    Despite the fact that many who were drawn to the oil fields for employment are "making it there to spend it elsewhere", there's no question that the oil boom in ND has had a ripple effect in the overall economy. What most people don't realize, however, is that much of the oil field is isolated from major population centers, and with a shortage of housing, there is a "share cropper" aspect to the oil patch, as rent-seeking developers in the Bakkans have cropped up, like Capital Lodgers [LINK], to capture a sizable portion of the personal income generated by the boom.

    There is another aspect to this that most people aren't aware of, and that is that the industry is now in a drilling phase. Those are the salad days for the oil patch. That lasts for about a generation, and will eventually come to an end.
    The future will be moving slightly south to the Niobrara shelf in Colorado from what I've seen.
    Something, something, something...Whatever my rage for the day.

  17. #16

    Default

    Tpoints check out this thread. It might answer some of your questions...

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=Williston+N.D.
    Something, something, something...Whatever my rage for the day.

  18. #17
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Deep South
    Posts
    2,882

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NoOneButPaul View Post
    If we're going to do multiple projects we should really keep it confined to Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, and Nevada for obvious reasons
    New Hampshire is the only feasible one of those. Iowa is a blue state, SC and Nevada are not liberty states. If there's going to be a second FSP then it should be a relatively small (population-wise especially), red state like Montana.

  19. #18

    Default

    Well, my question actually is this : does such a boom bring in more jobs than the oil jobs themselves?

    It's creating jobs in every industry because people who might otherwise work one job go to the oil industry for the money. Even McDonald's workers are getting $15/hr+ because labor is so scarce.

    Why aren't we hearing about this more as a solution to unemployment? Is it because it's not there or not big enough?

    We are. Fracking and mining have been perennial headlines on any business/finance publication. You're just not hearing about it in RPF all that much. There are people flocking to Australia for mining right now, too, many of them making $150K or more per year with nothing more than a high school education. There are plenty of great, high-paying, and sustainable jobs out there if you look past the macro doom and gloom story.

    Surely, if it was so promising, the employers would advertise in highly unemployed areas to recruit people, right?

    It's best for single dudes who can deal with crappy weather, long hours, but want to enjoy obscenely high pay. The persistent news coverage is doing a pretty good job of recruiting new employees from all over the place.
    Last edited by Jordan; 11-12-2012 at 07:36 PM.

  20. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Confederate View Post
    New Hampshire is the only feasible one of those. Iowa is a blue state, SC and Nevada are not liberty states. If there's going to be a second FSP then it should be a relatively small (population-wise especially), red state like Montana.
    I agree. New Hampshire is the ultimate all around choice, and I would do anything to see it FSP efforts succeed.

  21. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jordan View Post
    Well, my question actually is this : does such a boom bring in more jobs than the oil jobs themselves?

    It's creating jobs in every industry because people who might otherwise work one job go to the oil industry for the money. Even McDonald's workers are getting $15/hr+ because labor is so scarce.

    Why aren't we hearing about this more as a solution to unemployment? Is it because it's not there or not big enough?

    We are. Fracking and mining have been perennial headlines on any business/finance publication. You're just not hearing about it in RPF all that much. There are people flocking to Australia for mining right now, too, many of them making $150K or more per year with nothing more than a high school education. There are plenty of great, high-paying, and sustainable jobs out there if you look past the macro doom and gloom story.

    Surely, if it was so promising, the employers would advertise in highly unemployed areas to recruit people, right?

    It's best for single dudes who can deal with crappy weather, long hours, but want to enjoy obscenely high pay. The persistent news coverage is doing a pretty good job of recruiting new employees from all over the place.
    Yes to the above. I do want to mention that the largest problem is infrastructure. Housing is a major consideration. KBR is only capable of providing so many "man camps" at the price they charge those working in the oil industry. A McD worker isn't gonna fair as well. However, depending on the company a low wage earner works for, like WalMarx, they will bring them in over the Christmas holidays paying them twice their wages and dorming them in hotel blocks.
    Something, something, something...Whatever my rage for the day.

  22. #21

    Default

    I served over three years in the USAF stationed in the most northern part of ND. It is COLD! There is a lot of oil though. I remember driving 80 miles to a friends house (no joke... you have to drive really far to get to the next town) and smelling the oil wells. There were so many wells.
    Indianensis Universitatis Alumnus

  23. #22

    Default

    I honestly feel like this is right up my ally but I worry that I don't have what it takes...

    I've never worked in any kind of construction or engineering and only worked physical labor when I landscaped which I imagine is a fucking cake walk compared to this.

    I would really like to do this, make bank for a while by penny pinching to the extreme, and then move on to something else. I'm young, single, have nothing on the horizon and would really like to save up to move to New Hampshire comfortably.

    It seems like an amazing way to make some quick money.
    Last edited by NoOneButPaul; 11-12-2012 at 08:34 PM.
    It's just an opinion... man...

  24. #23
    Member Keith and stuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    The Live Free or Die state
    Posts
    9,430
    Blog Entries
    67

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NoOneButPaul View Post
    I would really like to do this, make bank for a while by penny pinching to the extreme, and then move on to something else. I'm young, single, have nothing on the horizon and would really like to save up to move to New Hampshire comfortably.

    It seems like an amazing way to make some quick money.
    Your quality of life would be better living in 1 bedroom of a multi-bedroom apartment in New Hampshire while working 2 jobs. Also, that way, you wouldn't need to save a lot of money to move to NH. Save enough for 3 months of rent and maybe $1500 incase your car is wrecked or something. Move to NH. Get a job within a few weeks. Then look for a part-time delivery, waiting, bar tending, dish washing, security, snow plowing, landscaping or whatever job.
    http://freestateproject.org/jobs
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/fspjobalert
    http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=&l=New+Hampshire

    Or do the adventure then move to NH and only work 1 full time job or 2 part time jobs.
    Lifetime member of more than 1 national gun organization and the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance. Part of Young Americans for Liberty and Campaign for Liberty. Free State Project participant and multi-year Free Talk Live AMPlifier.

  25. #24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NoOneButPaul View Post
    I would really like to do this, make bank for a while by penny pinching to the extreme, and then move on to something else. I'm young, single, have nothing on the horizon and would really like to save up to move to New Hampshire comfortably.
    Don't forget Asia as an option. No physical labor involved there. Teach English for two or three years, don't party, penny-pinch in a place where medical and dental costs next to nothing, and move to New Hampshire from there once you have a nest egg.

  26. #25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith and stuff View Post
    Your quality of life would be better living in 1 bedroom of a multi-bedroom apartment in New Hampshire while working 2 jobs. Also, that way, you wouldn't need to save a lot of money to move to NH. Save enough for 3 months of rent and maybe $1500 incase your car is wrecked or something. Move to NH. Get a job within a few weeks. Then look for a part-time delivery, waiting, bar tending, dish washing, security, snow plowing, landscaping or whatever job.
    http://freestateproject.org/jobs
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/fspjobalert
    http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=&l=New+Hampshire

    Or do the adventure then move to NH and only work 1 full time job or 2 part time jobs.
    1) Because I live in Chicago I have no car- public transit gets you everywhere here.
    2) To get to NH I kind of need one but really have no idea how I could incur the extra expense in the vehicle or insurance
    3) My goal is to go out to NH and devote most of my time to advancing the cause. It's really difficult to do that with a job let alone 2. I'd like to go out with a little bit of a nest egg. At my current rate I should be able to get out there by March and live comfortably for a little while after while I look for employment. I could probably go out now with the money i've got but I really want to be prepared financially and not go off half cocked.
    Last edited by NoOneButPaul; 11-12-2012 at 10:02 PM.
    It's just an opinion... man...

  27. #26

    Default

    The oil boom is very real in the western part of the state. It can be a dangerous occupation though. I know several guys that moved out west to be foreman or truck drivers and they make damn good money.

  28. #27

    Default

    I used to truck drive and heard there was a lot of work out there but the conditions are crazy and most of the roads are horrible.

    I've also heard there is a weird antagonism between the locals and the truckers for some reason.

  29. #28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Confederate View Post
    New Hampshire is the only feasible one of those. Iowa is a blue state, SC and Nevada are not liberty states. If there's going to be a second FSP then it should be a relatively small (population-wise especially), red state like Montana.
    Given that the dichotomy between Democrats and Republicans is a big-ass facade with few exceptions, why is it that I've reading too much here lately about red-state this or blue-state that? Do you expect big differences among the followers where few exist among the leaders? That's not to say I want to stink it up with the 47% or clink champaign glasses with the 1%, rather my evaluation of a state is not going to be "red or blue".
    Last edited by The Free Hornet; 11-12-2012 at 11:23 PM.

  30. #29

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KCIndy View Post
    Tpoints, as you can see from the story posted by Keith and stuff, the center of the boom is in the town of Williston. My wife and I are team truck drivers, and we go through North Dakota quite a bit. I've not had any experience directly with Williston, but even the nearby towns like Minot have been feeling the effects from this.

    A couple of years ago, before the boom, a truck wash in Minot was around eighty bucks. Last time I checked, the price had more than doubled. Last time I was in the Wal-Mart in Minot, they had a display in front of the store offering a four dollar per hour bonus - bonus, mind - for anyone willing to hire on and stock shelves overnights. The restaurants were having a hard time hiring staff even at ten and twelve bucks an hour.

    If you have trade skills - welding, machine tools, electrician, pipefitting, heavy equipment operations, etc you can still find some real high-paying jobs. But if you're planning on going there to look for work, be prepared to pay dearly for every amenity, and twice over for housing. Don't take the family. Be prepared for "bunkhouse living" with a bunch of other guys.... and don't plan on camping out like those poor bastards in that news story. The average low in Williston is well below zero in January:



    That's just a bit too cold to be living in a tent, IMHO.
    thanks! That's basically what i wanted to know

    Sounds like you're saying, many to most can get 10-12 per hour jobs doing low skill work, but would have to to keep up with high cost of living due to demand.

  31. #30

    Default

    Hire on in any of the trades locally for the winter, get some experience in anything then head out there in the spring...

    Quote Originally Posted by NoOneButPaul View Post
    I honestly feel like this is right up my ally but I worry that I don't have what it takes...

    I've never worked in any kind of construction or engineering and only worked physical labor when I landscaped which I imagine is a fucking cake walk compared to this.

    I would really like to do this, make bank for a while by penny pinching to the extreme, and then move on to something else. I'm young, single, have nothing on the horizon and would really like to save up to move to New Hampshire comfortably.

    It seems like an amazing way to make some quick money.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast




« Previous Thread | Next Thread »


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •