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Thread: 300 Babies for Sale: ONLY $570 EACH! Get 'em while they last...

  1. #1

    Default 300 Babies for Sale: ONLY $570 EACH! Get 'em while they last...

    Cairo, EGYPT - A police official said on Sunday officers had arrested five suspects, including two nurses and a doctor working at the Cairo hospital where the babies were sold for almost three years.


    Police are searching for the hospital manager who escaped arrest.


    The official said the network also performed caesarian operations on women who had left it too late for an abortion of an unwanted child in exchange for allowing the doctors to sell the babies, usually to couples who could not have their own children.


    Adoption is illegal in Egypt, which adheres to Islamic law in some family matters.


    Some couples have sought to bypass the ban by buying children.
    Read more: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news...#ixzz2BvGXQj7T

    My neighbor just adopted two boys... Their "legal fees" are up over $40,000; but they didn't "pay for the baby".
    It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen
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  3. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by presence View Post
    Read more: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news...#ixzz2BvGXQj7T

    My neighbor just adopted two boys... Their "legal fees" are up over $40,000; but they didn't "pay for the baby".
    They'll get part of that back with the adoption tax credit. We'll all be paying for their babies. With the prices for babies soaring as they are, I asked my a-dad how much he paid for me. I know they had to take out a loan because it's in my paperwork from the agency. (It actually says they were paying for me. I guess things were a little less PC back in the '60s.) He couldn't remember, but when I told him how much it costs now, he about fainted. He said that it wasn't THAT much, and that he wouldn't pay that much to adopt anyone. In fact, he said, in retrospect, he wouldn't adopt again. Finally. My work is done, lol.

    Egypt doesn't take kindly to things such as this. I wonder how many Americans got in on this deal.
    In this world nothing is certain but death and taxes.

  4. #3

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    How do they taste?
    “If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”

    - SAMUEL ADAMS

  5. #4

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    Just in case people haven't heard of the adoption tax credit, here's a link:

    http://www.nacac.org/taxcredit/taxcredit2011.html

    That links to last year's credit. Information for this year is also available at the link. It has not been renewed, but there is an effort, of course, to save this tax credit:

    http://adoptiontaxcredit.org/faqs/

    If you happen to be contacting your Congress persons, you might want to mention that you oppose the adoption tax credit.
    In this world nothing is certain but death and taxes.

  6. #5

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    I'm not sure how I feel about this, but I'm pretty sure it's better than the babies being aborted or dying. And how in hell is adoption illegal in the cases where abortion is deemed legal, but the baby is saved?! That's pretty f'n backwards.
    Abortion is legal where it is deemed necessary for the health of the mother.

  7. #6

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    I helped my mom get the adoption credit a few years ago. Netted hear a refund nearly $13,000. The child must be deemed special needs to redeem it. You have to submit a lot of paperwork with the refund (and it took more than 6 months) but she eventually got it.

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by youngbuck View Post
    I'm not sure how I feel about this, but I'm pretty sure it's better than the babies being aborted or dying. And how in hell is adoption illegal in the cases where abortion is deemed legal, but the baby is saved?! That's pretty f'n backwards.
    Believe it or not, adoption as we currently practice it in the Western world is not necessary. My ex-husband, who happens to be Palestinian, had difficulties understanding what being adopted means. At the point we married, I had been a part of my natural family for several years. I also maintain a relationship with my adoptive family. He had a pretty hard time wrapping his head around the idea that my dad is my dad, but not legally. My adoptive dad is my legal dad. He was pretty sure that my dad is my dad, and my adoptive dad is my foster dad. Fortunately, I'm not one of these "OMG I'm soooooo grateful to be adopted" types who would take 'offense' at his perfectly natural confusion. He simply could not grasp the concept of adoption, and frankly, it was a breath of fresh air to me.

    I'm sure there are people who understand family dynamics of Islam far better than I, but it is my understanding that while a child can be fostered, they cannot have their birthright taken from them. That is what adoption does. Having grown up with my birthright taken from me, I oppose that.
    In this world nothing is certain but death and taxes.

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by amonasro View Post
    I helped my mom get the adoption credit a few years ago. Netted hear a refund nearly $13,000. The child must be deemed special needs to redeem it. You have to submit a lot of paperwork with the refund (and it took more than 6 months) but she eventually got it.
    The child must be special needs to get the full refund without proving expenses. The refund does apply to all adoptions. The info is at the link.
    In this world nothing is certain but death and taxes.

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by RockEnds View Post
    I'm sure there are people who understand family dynamics of Islam far better than I, but it is my understanding that while a child can be fostered, they cannot have their birthright taken from them. That is what adoption does. Having grown up with my birthright taken from me, I oppose that.
    Gotcha, that makes more sense. Well, still, in respect to the OP, the babies were for all intents and purposes aborted via C-section. But they remained ALIVE. And they were then sold, primarily, to couples who couldn't have their own. I don't see what's immoral or unethical about this, other than profiting from it, perhaps. But the C-section and service they're providing the couples warrants some amount of compensation, no?

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by youngbuck View Post
    Gotcha, that makes more sense. Well, still, in respect to the OP, the babies were for all intents and purposes aborted via C-section. But they remained ALIVE. And they were then sold, primarily, to couples who couldn't have their own. I don't see what's immoral or unethical about this, other than profiting from it, perhaps. But the C-section and service they're providing the couples warrants some amount of compensation, no?
    Well, generally speaking, people aren't considered potential products to be distributed for cash on the free market.
    In this world nothing is certain but death and taxes.

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by youngbuck View Post
    Gotcha, that makes more sense. Well, still, in respect to the OP, the babies were for all intents and purposes aborted via C-section. But they remained ALIVE. And they were then sold, primarily, to couples who couldn't have their own. I don't see what's immoral or unethical about this, other than profiting from it, perhaps. But the C-section and service they're providing the couples warrants some amount of compensation, no?

    kinda like the eviction idea that Walter Block was talking about...
    want an abortion? just wait until the baby can survive outside the body, deliver via c-sec, and then have decent folk waiting to adopt for cheap.

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  13. #12

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    Paying for services. Hmm. Well, personally, my grandfather paid for my birth and my mother's confinement in a maternity home. Then my adoptive parents paid to adopt me. As I stated previously, my adoption papers actually state that they were paying for me--not a paperwork shuffle. That's illegal, however, so yes, adoption operated under the pretense of paying for services.

    I've no idea who paid for the women's c-sections. Typically in 3rd world countries, women are told that if they don't have the money for their hospital bills, all sorts of bad things will happen if they don't surrender the child. In this country, Medicaid generally pays for the birth. Adoption laws are all state laws, so things vary from state to state, but there is a limit as to how much money can go directly to the expectant mother in exchange for her child. Many of the complaints we see making the news are from prospective adopters who feel as if they've been scammed because an individual or an agency "promised" a child in exchange for money then the mother changed her mind. That is perfectly legal because children cannot be bought and sold.

    Adoption is an industry complete with paid lobbyists that do a very good job of making sure the law is written to ensure a profit. I've bumped heads with the industry more than once in an attempt to secure my own rights as a person who was adopted during my infancy. From my perspective, the real product--the thing that is actually exchanged for money--was my identity. Those babies in Egypt were stripped of their identities as well.

    What's life without liberty? Why should I be happy to be alive when I'm denied a right as basic as knowing who I am? I may as well be a GMO soybean without a label because my genes don't match up with my title of ownership (my birth certificate).
    In this world nothing is certain but death and taxes.

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by torchbearer View Post
    kinda like the eviction idea that Walter Block was talking about...
    want an abortion? just wait until the baby can survive outside the body, deliver via c-sec, and then have decent folk waiting to adopt for cheap.
    Which is just one of the reasons I am against abortion.

  15. #14

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    Not that it will go anywhere, but there's a show on PBS that features a round table of semi-prominent women from both sides of the aisle. They all agreed that adoption in the US is needlessly complicated and expensive, and desperately needs reform.
    .[QUOTE]"Every great new thought was opposed. Every great new invention was denounced. The first motor was considered foolish. The airplane was considered impossible. The power loom was considered vicious. Anesthesia was considered sinful. But the men of unborrowed vision went ahead. They fought, they suffered and they paid. But they won." - Ayn Rand, The Fountainhead[/QUOTE]
    ..
    .

    I blog at Red State Eclectic, and I tweet here,.

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by RockEnds View Post
    Paying for services. Hmm. Well, personally, my grandfather paid for my birth and my mother's confinement in a maternity home. Then my adoptive parents paid to adopt me. As I stated previously, my adoption papers actually state that they were paying for me--not a paperwork shuffle. That's illegal, however, so yes, adoption operated under the pretense of paying for services.

    I've no idea who paid for the women's c-sections. Typically in 3rd world countries, women are told that if they don't have the money for their hospital bills, all sorts of bad things will happen if they don't surrender the child. In this country, Medicaid generally pays for the birth. Adoption laws are all state laws, so things vary from state to state, but there is a limit as to how much money can go directly to the expectant mother in exchange for her child. Many of the complaints we see making the news are from prospective adopters who feel as if they've been scammed because an individual or an agency "promised" a child in exchange for money then the mother changed her mind. That is perfectly legal because children cannot be bought and sold.

    Adoption is an industry complete with paid lobbyists that do a very good job of making sure the law is written to ensure a profit. I've bumped heads with the industry more than once in an attempt to secure my own rights as a person who was adopted during my infancy. From my perspective, the real product--the thing that is actually exchanged for money--was my identity. Those babies in Egypt were stripped of their identities as well.

    What's life without liberty? Why should I be happy to be alive when I'm denied a right as basic as knowing who I am? I may as well be a GMO soybean without a label because my genes don't match up with my title of ownership (my birth certificate).
    what is the right to know who you are? shouldn't it be the right to pursue self-discovery?
    most people go through their entire life without ever figuring out who they are...

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  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by torchbearer View Post
    what is the right to know who you are? shouldn't it be the right to pursue self-discovery?
    most people go through their entire life without ever figuring out who they are...
    If we could better define that, adoptees might get some rights.

    I would agree that the right to pursue self-discovery is at least a big part of that. And I need to make it very clear that I have been able to accomplish that despite current adoption law. However, I was raised to believe that my identity IS my property. I was not allowed to have any information until I was 18 (although my amom caved on some of it when I was 14), but my adoptive dad raised me to believe that when I turned 18, no one had the right to deny me my own information. Not just everyone is raised in that manner. And I did take back what is mine. I was, and continue to be, very fortunate to have been adopted by someone who believes the state has no right to interfere in my personal business. Dad has even gone to court with me to help me get my paperwork for proving DAR eligibility.

    But what about everyone else? They're at the mercy of others to provide or deny them their personal information. With the advance of technology, DNA testing is becoming more viable. I personally had a cousin match who just happened to match with enough other cousins that I was able to at least help her pinpoint her paternal grandfather. And I'm very, very happy to be able to engage in a free market activity that will help people find their origins.

    But it was the state that stole them from us through adoption law. That's just wrong.
    In this world nothing is certain but death and taxes.

  18. #17

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    There is another point that is worth making here. When I went to court with my son, daughter, and adoptive father (my natural father is dead) to get my paper work, I did not appear as an adult citizen. I appeared in juvenile court. I'm pushing 50, and I had a date in juvenile court. Cute, huh? I felt soooo special. The laws over which I made my argument were not directed at the general population. They were written especially for adoptees--as a group. 'Cause ya know, equal protection only applies to non-adopted persons. Adoptees are not individuals. We're special! We're a part of a collective. Of course, I made my point that I am NOT part of a special collective. I am an individual with individual rights protected by the Constitution. Among those is the right to free association, and proving DAR eligibility is part of that right to free association.

    I was hoping for a denial and an appeal because I would have won. Instead, the judge very quietly and with an ACTUAL WINK gave me my paperwork.
    In this world nothing is certain but death and taxes.

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by presence View Post
    Read more: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news...#ixzz2BvGXQj7T

    My neighbor just adopted two boys... Their "legal fees" are up over $40,000; but they didn't "pay for the baby".
    What do you think those Legal fees are??? Payment. Why does it cost more to adopt a white blonde hair blue eyed baby? You can adopted a baby for the low cost of papers signing over rights to the child. Yet it somehow always ends up being a lot more then that. Many times the people adopting will pay the hospital bill but there is always some middle man wanting to make ten grand or so.
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