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Thread: Red Dawn

  1. #1

    Red Dawn

    Ok, so I'm finally starting to see the trailer:



    What do you think?

    I remember when the original came out. I was just a kid, but it probably was responsible for setting me on the path towards understanding liberty.
    The original was beautiful. (of course, it looks dated now) The scenery was just about perfect, and the plot themes and characters were well-constructed. The messaging about political maneuvering, gun rights, war, and insurgency were awesome.

    This new one looks pretty Hollywood, but I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt. Thoughts?
    Last edited by CaptUSA; 11-04-2012 at 02:52 PM.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire



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  3. #2
    O look, another hollywood remake. How original.
    "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"

  4. #3
    It looks awful.
    Genuine, willful, aggressive ignorance is the one sure way to tick me off. I wish I could say you were trolling. I know better, and it's just sad.

  5. #4
    They should have stuck with China as the invading force. North Korea invading the US requires way too much suspension of disbelief.
    Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
    --Albert J. Nock

  6. #5
    Yeah, very similar cinematography as so many other action or disaster flicks over the last decade or so.

    The actor selections look formulaic too.

  7. #6
    The dialogue looks predictably Hollywood. Made for soundbites for the commercials.

    Any thoughts about the messaging? How similar will it be to the original?
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  8. #7
    I just watch the news about the Iraq war if I want to relive Red Dawn. Their resistance is getting pummeled by the blue invaders. I wonder if the American audience would be able to see the similarities between Red Dawn movie and the war in Iraq?

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    I just watch the news about the Iraq war if I want to relive Red Dawn. Their resistance is getting pummeled by the blue invaders. I wonder if the American audience would be able to see the similarities between Red Dawn movie and the war in Iraq?
    Probably not, considering even the tag line talks about not thinking about the threats to our safety.
    Genuine, willful, aggressive ignorance is the one sure way to tick me off. I wish I could say you were trolling. I know better, and it's just sad.



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  11. #9
    The original was about average everyday Americans fighting back. This one has an ex-marine with a police chief father. Yeah! Uniforms to the rescue.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    The original was about average everyday Americans fighting back. This one has an ex-marine with a police chief father. Yeah! Uniforms to the rescue.
    Don't forget that the females in the original did not look like they might break into a Pantene commercial at any moment?
    Genuine, willful, aggressive ignorance is the one sure way to tick me off. I wish I could say you were trolling. I know better, and it's just sad.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by MelissaWV View Post
    Don't forget that the females in the original did not look like they might break into a Pantene commercial at any moment?
    Ha! Right, right.

  14. #12
    The only way they could have made it worse is too include the characters from Twilight. The titles seem similar.
    "Corruptisima republica plurimae leges."

    ---- Tacitus

    I love von Mises and Emma Watson

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    I just watch the news about the Iraq war if I want to relive Red Dawn. Their resistance is getting pummeled by the blue invaders. I wonder if the American audience would be able to see the similarities between Red Dawn movie and the war in Iraq?
    Don't you know the Iraqis wanted us to invade! We liberated them. duh

  16. #14
    Review of the original by Murray Rothbard: http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard64.html

    It’s not only the Supreme Court that follows the election returns. Hollywood, too, does its bit, and movie theatres have been increasingly filled with right-wingy patriotism, like the rest of the media this endless summer. I went to see Red Dawn expecting a bout of anti-Soviet warmongering, but instead was pleasantly surprised. This is hardly a great picture, and is indeed flawed. But Red Dawn is an enjoyable teen-age saga, and, apart from right-wingy pro-NATO credits at the beginning of the film, it is not so much pro-war as it is anti-State. The warfare it celebrates is not interstate strife, but guerrilla conflict that the great radical libertarian military analyst, General Charles Lee, labeled "people’s war" two centuries before Mao and Che.


    The beginning of the picture is exciting, if idiotic. Cuban, Nicaraguan, Mexican and other Commie Hispanic troops, headed by Soviet advisors, parachute into and successfully conquer the entire prairie Mid West, from the Rockies to the Mississippi. In the opening sequence, the Red paratroops swiftly invade and, for some reason, annihilate a high school in the mythical town of "Culver City," Colorado, presumably somewhere in the East Slope foothills of the Rockies. In a neat touch, gun control has made it easy for the Commie occupiers to round up all the registered guns in the area. But a half-dozen high school kids escape and set up a guerrilla camp in the Rockies. Jed, the older leader and a former school quarterback, whips the other reluctant lads into shape, and soon the tiny guerrilla band, using light arms, mobile tactics, and superior knowledge of the terrain, strike terror into the Red occupying forces while brandishing the rallying name of "Wolverines." There are some revoltingly macho touches at the beginning, especially when one of the young lads receives his mystical baptism into the guerrilla rites by drinking the blood of his first kill – fortunately a deer rather than a Commie. These touches subside after a while, although they are hardly softened by the appearance of two young lady guerrillas who are fierce and androgynous enough to pose for a Viet Cong or Algerian guerrilla poster.


    One of the best parts of the picture is the graphic portrayal of how the Red response to the Wolverines runs the gamut of the U. S. counter-revolutionary responses to the Vietnamese. That is, at first the Russian commander decides to hole up in the cities and military bases, into the "safe zones," whereupon the Wolverines boldly demonstrate that in guerrilla war there are no safe zones, and that the "front is everywhere." At that point, another crackerjack Russian commander takes over, and replicates the "search and destroy" counter-guerrilla response of the Green Berets. This is more punishing, but still does not succeed.

    One big problem with the picture is that there is no sense that successful guerrilla war feeds on itself; in real life the ranks of the guerrillas would start to swell, and this would defeat the search-and-destroy concept. In Red Dawn, on the other hand, there are only the same half-dozen teenagers, and the inevitable attrition makes the struggle seem hopeless when it need not be.

    Another problem is that there is no character development through action, so that, except for the leader, all the high school kids seem indistinguishable. As a result, there is no impulse to mourn as each one falls by the wayside.

    But whatever flaws the movie has are redeemed by one glorious – and profoundly libertarian – moment. The Nicaraguan-Cuban insurgent leader is increasingly unhappy acting as a State occupying force. He tells the implacable Russian commander: "Once I was an insurgent. Now I’m a policeman" – the last word spoken with profound contempt. He writes his wife: "What am I doing in this cold and lonely spot, so far away from home?" So that, in the climax of the film, as one people’s war guerrilla to another, he saves the hero, Jed, and allows him to slip out of the Russian net. Ideology, left and right, gets swallowed up in hands-across-the-sea of people’s guerrillas against their respective States.

    In all war pictures there is the annoying pacifist nudge, griping about "how do we differ from them," since both are shooting and killing. (The LeFevre-Smith motif.) Jed’s answer is satisfactory enough, even though lacking profound argumentation: "Because we live here!"

    Another fine touch is that the evil informer who almost does the Wolverines in is, naturally, the son of the town Mayor, who is identified by friend and foe alike as "the politician." The Mayor, who directs the betrayal, cringes fawningly if despairingly in carrying out the orders of the occupation force.

    All in all worth seeing – exciting as well as libertarian.

  17. #15
    For contrast:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_I4WgBfETc

    For some reason it won't embed for me. When I click okay, nothing happens.
    "Sorry, fellows, the rebellion is off. We couldn't get a rebellion permit."

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by KingRobbStark View Post
    The only way they could have made it worse is too include the characters from Twilight. The titles seem similar.
    They included the male lead from Hunger Games, and the dude that plays Thor (whose brother was in Hunger Games, so they kind of look alike). They put everyone in that pretty age group where teen girls are supposed to shriek with delight over them. And I don't see any of the original in this remake.
    Genuine, willful, aggressive ignorance is the one sure way to tick me off. I wish I could say you were trolling. I know better, and it's just sad.



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  20. #17
    Jericho and Last Resort are much more realistic at this point.
    In New Zealand:
    The Coastguard is a Charity
    Air Traffic Control is a private company run on user fees
    The DMV is a private non-profit
    Rescue helicopters and ambulances are operated by charities and are plastered with corporate logos
    The agriculture industry has zero subsidies
    5% of the national vote, gets you 5 seats in Parliament
    A tax return has 4 fields
    Business licenses aren't even a thing nor are capital gains taxes
    Constitutional right to refuse any type of medical care

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    The original was about average everyday Americans fighting back. This one has an ex-marine with a police chief father. Yeah! Uniforms to the rescue.
    Sorry, there are a crap-ton of veterans out in society. My complaint with the original Red Dawn was a conspicuous lack of veterans. I rather like the fact that a former Marine is involved, and I actually find that more realistic rather than less.

    Indeed, it looks a bit too Hollywood, and Melissa is right about the impossible grooming, but special effects aside I sure hope they went the Star Trek remake route rather than the Star Wars remake route. It has real potential.

  22. #19
    Even China invading the US would be a huge stretch. North Korea? Pfft.

    Looks pretty stupid to me.

  23. #20
    It looks like it doesn't deserve to inherit the Red Dawn legacy. Most film makers that I've met were liberal wienies who'd never shot a gun, or even went camping. And then they go and try to make movies like this...

  24. #21
    ridiculous movie- bows to PC & switches the invade to NK's rather than Chinese.

  25. #22
    is the TV show The Americans based on it?

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by matt0611 View Post
    Even China invading the US would be a huge stretch. North Korea? Pfft.

    Looks pretty stupid to me.
    the more 'impossible' the enemy, the better, IMHO. A plausible enemy begs only itself, but an implausible enemy can be anybody, even our own.

  27. #24
    The 1984 Red Dawn seems to be a popular critical pick for worst movie of all time. Doesn't necessarily mean it is, but people sure like to bash on it.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    Sorry, there are a crap-ton of veterans out in society. My complaint with the original Red Dawn was a conspicuous lack of veterans. I rather like the fact that a former Marine is involved, and I actually find that more realistic rather than less.

    Indeed, it looks a bit too Hollywood, and Melissa is right about the impossible grooming, but special effects aside I sure hope they went the Star Trek remake route rather than the Star Wars remake route. It has real potential.
    As a vet I understand that there are many vets in society. Still, the reason why I liked the original was that the Wolverines were composed of high schoolers. They had no combat experience and had to come into adulthood fighting as guerrillas. Later, they were tutored by a downed pilot, but until that time it was an 'oh-$#@!' situation for them. Adding a vet into the mix takes away from that. IMHO. Tomorrow, When the War Began had these same elements and as far as a knock off I believe it will be seen as a better movie.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by anaconda View Post
    The 1984 Red Dawn seems to be a popular critical pick for worst movie of all time. Doesn't necessarily mean it is, but people sure like to bash on it.
    I still think it's one of the best films of all time. lol.

    Sure, the premise is implausible, but the message is not. One especially libertarian moment is when the invading general tells a subordinate to go to the gun store and grab the lists of gun-owners in the town. That way they'd know which people would pose the highest threat.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  31. #27
    I have to say, the adverts for this new Red Dawn movie is running heavily during the football game. Me wonders if there is some sort of hidden agenda behind it. And the sound track used in it just melts your hearts, if I wasn't a stronger man, I would be in tears right now

  32. #28
    Anyone watch Revolution? Setting: America after all things electrical bite the dust.

    http://www.hulu.com/search?q=revoluton&type=episodes
    "Sorry, fellows, the rebellion is off. We couldn't get a rebellion permit."

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    The original was about average everyday Americans fighting back. This one has an ex-marine with a police chief father. Yeah! Uniforms to the rescue.
    Except when the real $#@! hits the fan, our government will be in cahoots with those invading our country. The DHS will go on national TV declaring the "ex-marine" is the terrorist. Oh never mind, our government has already done such. Silly me.

    I think some of you miss the point here. Our government uses the media and particularly Hollywood to portray some type of future reality.
    If Rand does not win the Republican nomination, he should buck the controlled two party system and run as an Independent for President in 2016 and give Americans a real option to vote for.

    We are all born libertarians then something goes really wrong. Despite this truth, most people are still libertarians yet not know it.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucille View Post
    They should have stuck with China as the invading force. North Korea invading the US requires way too much suspension of disbelief.
    That's what happens when TPTB have control over how Hollywood makes their movies.
    I am the spoon.

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