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Thread: Sign the petition to delcare independence from fiat currency

  1. #1

    Sign the petition to delcare independence from fiat currency

    I just made the web page so please tell me about any errors.

    In order to do this we must create a network of citizens who accept precious metals as payment. This does not mean exclusively. In fact by law, as wrongful as it may be, you still have to accept Federal Reserve Notes, but you have the right to also accept other forms of payment. If you know precious metals are honest currency and you are willing to sell your goods or services in return for them please join the Honest Currency Network. Declare your independence from fiat currency!
    http://www.vxmining.com/the-honest-currency-network
    Vx Freedom- Free articles, news, forums, and for a limited time free wheat pennies

    www.vxfreedom.com



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  3. #2
    bump
    Vx Freedom- Free articles, news, forums, and for a limited time free wheat pennies

    www.vxfreedom.com

  4. #3
    Barter isn't illegal.

    Yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  5. #4
    Well, technically. The tax implications are a nightmare though. Defacto illegalities.

    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Barter isn't illegal.

    Yet.
    "Like an army falling, one by one by one" - Linkin Park

  6. #5
    How is this different from the Open Currency folks?

  7. #6
    Different areas of the world/country can create similar projects.

    The more of these projects the better. Then, the true quality projects will rise to the top.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bern View Post
    How is this different from the Open Currency folks?
    "Like an army falling, one by one by one" - Linkin Park

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Barter isn't illegal.

    Yet.
    It doesn't need to be, as it is taxed, even though there is no "gain" or profit involved.

    Four Facts About Bartering

    In today’s economy, small business owners sometimes look to the oldest form of commerce – the exchange of goods and services, or bartering. The IRS wants to remind small business owners that the fair market value of property or services received through barter is taxable income.

    Bartering is the trading of one product or service for another. Usually there is no exchange of cash. However, the fair market value of the goods and services exchanged must be reported as income by both parties.
    Here is where these right-nasty bastards play both sides of the currency debasement fence (and why Ron Paul so vehemently demands that value be defined by Congress)

    We have a system set up where every exchange is infinitely taxable. You pay for a good out of currency that has already been taxed at all levels of government. Your trading partner did likewise with his good. Both of the bartered goods have presumably already been paid for with income that was already taxed. When you trade items in this way, there is no BUYER and SELLER involved as far as the IRS is concerned. Suddenly, both parties are SELLERS, and the IRS views the "fair market value" of each item in trade as INCOME TO BOTH PARTIES -- even with an even exchange.

    Now that they have accomplished that neat little trick, the only question remaining is whether there was a GAIN, or profit involved. And now we get back to the another neat little trick, where a LOSS OF CURRENCY EXCHANGE VALUE EQUATES TO A "CAPITAL GAIN".

    If you don't have the original receipts, then the IRS will conclude that the items were somehow free to you, and therefore 100% INCOME, or 100% "profit". But even if both you and your barter partner have original receipts there is still a problem, and you're both going to lose in the process.

    Let's say that each of us bought our different item in exchange in 1978. We each paid the same price (let's say $1,000), and both items appreciated equally in "value" (using that term VERY loosely), such that they only kept pace with inflation. The new "fair market value" (let's say $3,500 in 2012) would only be what each item would sell for in 2012.

    Once the trade is made, EACH OF US has received $3,500 in INCOME. That is pure INCOME to both of us if we don't have receipts. WITH RECEIPTS, however, each of us will be seen as having made a PROFIT of $2,500!!! All 100% taxable income. The IRS does not participate in CPI adjustments, and makes no such distinctions. So what you PAID for your item in 1978 is your ONLY PROOF--your receipt--of cost of goods that you can deduct as being not part of the 'profit'. What you RECEIVED in barter exchange for that item has a fair market value that is only reckoned in 2012 terms.

    That's why there is no need to make barter illegal. It's already part of a state racket that is positively criminal, and they'll only seek ways to control and regulate it even more.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Douglas View Post
    It doesn't need to be, as it is taxed, even though there is no "gain" or profit involved.



    Here is where these right-nasty bastards play both sides of the currency debasement fence (and why Ron Paul so vehemently demands that value be defined by Congress)

    We have a system set up where every exchange is infinitely taxable. You pay for a good out of currency that has already been taxed at all levels of government. Your trading partner did likewise with his good. Both of the bartered goods have presumably already been paid for with income that was already taxed. When you trade items in this way, there is no BUYER and SELLER involved as far as the IRS is concerned. Suddenly, both parties are SELLERS, and the IRS views the "fair market value" of each item in trade as INCOME TO BOTH PARTIES -- even with an even exchange.

    Now that they have accomplished that neat little trick, the only question remaining is whether there was a GAIN, or profit involved. And now we get back to the another neat little trick, where a LOSS OF CURRENCY EXCHANGE VALUE EQUATES TO A "CAPITAL GAIN".

    If you don't have the original receipts, then the IRS will conclude that the items were somehow free to you, and therefore 100% INCOME, or 100% "profit". But even if both you and your barter partner have original receipts there is still a problem, and you're both going to lose in the process.

    Let's say that each of us bought our different item in exchange in 1978. We each paid the same price (let's say $1,000), and both items appreciated equally in "value" (using that term VERY loosely), such that they only kept pace with inflation. The new "fair market value" (let's say $3,500 in 2012) would only be what each item would sell for in 2012.

    Once the trade is made, EACH OF US has received $3,500 in INCOME. That is pure INCOME to both of us if we don't have receipts. WITH RECEIPTS, however, each of us will be seen as having made a PROFIT of $2,500!!! All 100% taxable income. The IRS does not participate in CPI adjustments, and makes no such distinctions. So what you PAID for your item in 1978 is your ONLY PROOF--your receipt--of cost of goods that you can deduct as being not part of the 'profit'. What you RECEIVED in barter exchange for that item has a fair market value that is only reckoned in 2012 terms.

    That's why there is no need to make barter illegal. It's already part of a state racket that is positively criminal, and they'll only seek ways to control and regulate it even more.
    So if I take two dozen eggs from my chickens and go across the road and give them to the dairy farmer and he in return gives me a gallon of milk, we somehow are magically going to be taxed for our trade?



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  11. #9
    ^^ Not magically - by gun point if they are so inclined to chase you down for the money.
    "Like an army falling, one by one by one" - Linkin Park

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphim View Post
    ^^ Not magically - by gun point if they are so inclined to chase you down for the money.
    Damn, those drones are getting so sophisticated they can even spot a person giving someone eggs and getting milk in return.

    Edit:
    Next I suppose they will try to tax me for returning the cup of sugar I borrowed the other day.
    Last edited by Dr.3D; 11-01-2012 at 04:20 PM.

  13. #11
    Hahaha.

    Realistically, as government on all levels continue to see their revenues drop and their expenditures expand - they will get VERY nitpicky about peoples transactions and the tax implications.

    The squeeze is already on, but it will get worse.

    I can see it now, Mr Obama:

    "The barter economy threatens the United States of America. To barter is unAmerican - pay your taxes."


    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    Damn, those drones are getting so sophisticated they can even spot a person giving someone eggs and getting milk in return.

    Edit:
    Next I suppose they will try to tax me for returning the cup of sugar I borrowed the other day.
    "Like an army falling, one by one by one" - Linkin Park

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphim View Post
    "The barter economy threatens the United States of America. To barter is unAmerican - pay your taxes."
    More likely:

    "The barter economy is becoming an increasingly sophisticated weapon for terrorists, drug dealers and tax evaders who are engaged in sophisticated money laundering and other illicit activity. To separate the Money-Laundering Criminals from the Good And Wonderful Bartering Taxpayers, we are requiring that everyone apply for a John Q. Public Good Patriotic Citizen Bartering License. Once you pay your small fee, our sophisticated technological advancements will take over from there, as we are striving to make it very easy to report your Clean Taxable Barter Activity online.

    If you know of anyone who is engaged in illegal barter, call our hotline. Fulfilling your patriotic duty could result in a cash reward!



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