Could China Defeat Us?

[GunnyFreedom]

A Sino-American war of non-nuclear vintage would be determined by the ground upon which it was fought. If we fought them on their turf they would indeed spank us and for several reasons. Firstly, they have a HUGE army, many times the size of ours. Secondly, that army is well trained despite the absence of all the technological bells and whistles. Indeed, if China were to send just a small number of nukes into orbit and detonate them, knocking out GPS, US forces would likely find themselves in a lot of trouble. Whether they would be able to boost warheads to that distance remains a point up for some debate. Next, the Chinese have historically shown a low regard for human life that is largely alien to the modern US military in that I hold zero doubt that in such a confrontation China would induct tens of millions more into their army and send them into wave charges as they did in Korea. Hey, it worked then, why not now? Even if the US forces managed to kill 100 million Chinese combatants, China would still have about 1.3 billion more in reserve. In other words, short of employing nuclear weapons, there is no possible way the USA could defeat China on its own ground.

Likewise, China would not be able to defeat the USA if it were so foolish as to send an armada eastward. Were I CIC and I was informed that a formation of 5000 ships loaded with Chinese troops were on the way to the USA, I would tacnuke them to Davey Jones Locker. If they did not get the message, I would target and obliterate every military site and sea port in China.

We have superior weaponry on our side. They have numbers. We have a heavily armed populace. We both have the Pacific.

Stalemate.

Solid analysis. The only way anybody would win, is for both parties to lose. That means MAD. That means the cockroaches win.

Nobody wants that, really. Not China, not the US, so it's more likely to boil down to intense proxy wars. Current US leadership is stupid enough to fall for that, and once we are heavily degraded chances are we will soon end up with the US confronting Gog and Magog in the valley of Megiddo and all three being completely wiped out.

[GunnyFreedom]

It wouldnt be one on one..Japan and Australia would get involved...three of the strongest navys in the pacific.

Yea china has many reserves but. Im puzzled on how they would transport them to any place that would put united states influence in danger...unless they disabled our satilites I fail to see how china is any sort of short term threat.

Long term is another story.

China has allies too, and I think you overestimate Japan's Navy, the vast majority of which would maintain a defensive posture around Japan.

If we did something that forced a hot-war with China, about the only things we are contemplating to lead there would draw Russia in first. So you have to count the Russian Navy as allied with China. Then you have to draw in the entire Russo-Sino compact nations most of the way into Eastern Europe, not to mention Iran and her satellites.

Add in all the countries pissed at the US for our indiscriminate drone-bombing of their nations, and you end up with a pretty doggone serious coalition that will not be equalized by Japan and Australia. Least of all Japan, who with the historic animosity between them and China, will focus almost entirely on self defense.

If this scenario should come to pass, it won't be 4 or 5 countries, it will be 40 or 50 countries, with huge gargantuan coalitions on both sides. Or all 4 sides since I don't think the divisions will be that clean.

I had actually started tolling up Naval strengths from the several nations (including Japan) to demonstrate the relative strengths, when I realized that there are far too many countries to add in to both sides, and the problem is way too complex to boil down to numbers alone. You also have the fact that the American Navy will be split into 2 or 3 naval battle areas while China will only have to deal with one.

It's not nearly as simple a problem as many believe.

[alucard13mmfmj]

I think China would go for Korea, Japan, Taiwan and pretty much every asian pacific country. Russia goes for Europe.

They need to take out the staging grounds for USA. USA could stage attacks from japan, korea, etc etc. USA can stage attacks from europe and middle east.

USA does have a tactical advantage of having a presence in those countries.. while China/Russia does not really have any friends or allies near the USA to have as a staging area.

[osan]

...unless they disabled our satilites I fail to see how china is any sort of short term threat.

Even so, they would have nothing in terms of credible ability to attack us. We still have a large ICBM stock and could reduce China to universal ash in about 40 minutes' time. They know this and they are not stupid. They bide their time. As we dally, they build their own nukes and delivery systems. When the reach within about 70% of parity with us, that is where the truth will begin coming out because at that point they WILL pose a credible intercontinental threat. At that point we may see their truer long-term aspirations. For me, the ONLY pertinent question of a broad nature is whether they share the goal of the defunct, philosophically bankrupt Soviet Union of taking over the world in the sense of spreading communism to the four corners. They might. Then again, they may be a little smarter than other nations have proven in that they want prosperity for their nation first and do not much care what the rest of the world does so long as it buys their products.

I suppose time will tell.

[presence]

China already defeated us.


Dollar no longer primary oil currency as China begins to sell oil using Yuan

http://www.examiner.com/article/doll...oil-using-yuan

its over.

[Dianne]

China already defeated us... why the post?

Obama pledged as collateral to China, all United States Land, and all men with legs and feet to secure 16 trillion borrowed from them.

You and I are already owned by China, yes, they did defeat us; and not one military strike at hand.

[presence]

You and I are already owned by China, yes, they did defeat us; and not one military strike at hand.

“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

[idiom]

If America and China went into an actual hot war, it would all be over in about two hours. 5000 warheads vs ~200. America could conceivably win that, America minus 200 down-towns would still be formidable.

Conventionally, China cannot project power at all. They can defend their coastline reasonably, but that's about it.

China's best weapons are information and economics. 70% of the chips and components in American military hardware are sourced from China, even though this is supposed to be illegal.

[FindLiberty]

Agree. It would be better if war could be avoided. Maybe we could offer up some more slaves instead.

If America and China went into an actual hot war, it would all be over in about two hours. 5000 warheads vs ~200...

America may run out of nukes long before all of China's massive Mfr capability could be wiped out.

...America minus 200 down-towns would still be formidable. Conventionally, China cannot project power at all. They can defend their coastline reasonably, but that's about it...

China's 200 nukes are overkill enough, but they would still be unable to find America's Mfr capabilities to destroy them because they are already pretty much wiped out. e.g., If they nuked Detroit, the impact would be negligible other than watching the radiation plume blow somewhere else by prevailing winds. But, if China had 2,000 nukes instead of 200, they might be able to target all of America's Manufacturing suppliers if they also started bombing factories that are now re-located in China and scattered around in several other countries.

...China's best weapons are information and economics. 70% of the chips and components in American military hardware are sourced from China...

If China sends some coded, secret "Kracken" signal that activates self-destruct features already hidden in most of those chips and components, hundreds of millions of angry Americans would attempt to roll off their couches and eventually stand up and demand replacement HDTV equipment that would, of course, be manufactured in China. This would strengthen China's Mfr and economic base.

Many would soon become lost if China wiped out our orbital GPS satellite system in a first strike.

China misses a powerful tool in their warfare arsenal if they rely only on software "Kracken" commands to disable all military and infrastructure electronics. Imagine the additional psychological fear and dilemma impact Americans would face if China only had EMP nukes to accomplish that Kracken electronic destruction mission the old fashion way... "Do I share some of my tin foil hat material with my TV and PC to protect them from EMP damage?" "Is aluminum foil good enough, or do I need to buy premium quality tin?" And, "Should I continue to wear my tin foil hat to protect my brain since I can always buy replacement electronics, but with this new Robe-Omnie Medical Care, I'm not sure I'll like my new brain, or even notice it at all, if my old one gets damaged."

Americans would be paralyzed, as if they had all plugged up kidneys after eating bad pet food from China.

On the other hand, if China wanted to save America from self-destruction, they might nuke our banks, federal reserve money sources and all major government buildings and centers of political power while sparing American military installations that could be used in case America was ever attacked by an enemy.

[Icymudpuppy]

China is not interested in a military confrontation with us for many reasons. However, if it were to come to it... In conventional war, yes, they could defeat us. Infantry always has been the deciding branch of the military. Their infantry outnumbers us about 10 to 1. All our tanks, missiles, aircraft, etc would give us a better kill ratio, but not THAT good. Realistically, to avoid getting crushed, non-conventional nuclear, biological, and Chemical weapons would likely be used by the USA. However, once we deploy them, China will as well. Best case scenario is a draw.

More realistically, China will continue to use their larger population and greater manufacturing capacity to slowly drain our economy until they effectively own our entire country.

China understands the long game. USA is a flash in the pan, and they can wait us out.
China has over 6000 years of recorded history though you wouldn't likely learn about it in US public schools or Christian young earth schools/homeschool because China's history is older than Judaisms.