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Thread: Italian court convicts 7 for no quake warning

  1. #1
    Member Zippyjuan's Avatar
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    Default Italian court convicts 7 for no quake warning

    http://enews.earthlink.net/article/t...5-c8a5c3626f93

    There is no reliable way to predict earthquakes.

    ANNALISA CAMILLI
    From Associated Press
    October 22, 2012 1:03 PM EDT

    L'AQUILA, Italy (AP) — An Italian court convicted seven scientists and experts of manslaughter on Monday for failing to adequately warn citizens before an earthquake struck central Italy in 2009, killing more than 300 people.

    The court in L'Aquila also sentenced the defendants to six years in prison. Each one is a member of the national Great Risks Commission.

    In Italy, convictions aren't definitive until after at least one level of appeals, so it is unlikely any of the defendants would face jail immediately.

    Scientists worldwide had decried the trial as ridiculous, contending that science has no reliable way of predicting earthquakes.

    Among those convicted were some of Italy's most prominent and internationally respected seismologists and geological experts, including Enzo Boschi, former head of the national Institute of Geophysics and Volcanology.

    "I am dejected, desperate," Boschi said after the verdict. "I thought I would have been acquitted. I still don't understand what I was convicted of."

    The trial began in September 2011 in this Apennine town, whose devastated historic center is still largely a ghost town.

    The defendants were accused in the indictment of giving "inexact, incomplete and contradictory information" about whether small tremors felt by L'Aquila residents in the weeks and months before the April 6, 2009, quake should have constituted grounds for a quake warning.
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  3. #2
    Untimely ripped fisharmor's Avatar
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    Wow. They've come a long way in the last 70 years, haven't they.....
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  4. #3
    Needs a bigger boat Anti Federalist's Avatar
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    Just another set of victims in the growing world wide trend of criminalizing everything.

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Just another set of victims in the growing world wide trend of criminalizing everything.
    Failing to stop the worst terrorist attack in U.S. history is still legal.

    9/11 Thermate experiments

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  7. #6

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    Weathermen must be shaking in their boots
    Ron Paul: "For those who have asked, I freely confess that Jesus Christ is my personal Savior, and that I seek His guidance in all that I do."

  8. #7

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    on a more serious note this is fucked. Will just lead to scientists not even sharing their opinions since they can now be held liable any time they are wrong.

    Or maybe they should predict a 9.0 earthquake every day - just in case.
    Ron Paul: "For those who have asked, I freely confess that Jesus Christ is my personal Savior, and that I seek His guidance in all that I do."

  9. #8

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    Utter and complete bullshit. What a bunch of pussies we are surrounded by.
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  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackTerrel View Post
    Weathermen must be shaking in their boots
    I shall now sue the local "weatherman" because he told me it would be partly cloudy, but it rained and I had to use an umbrella. Compensation for sour mood, sniffles and calories burned from holding said umbrella is in order.
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  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackTerrel View Post
    Weathermen must be shaking in their boots

    I shouldn't laugh, but lol.
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  12. #11
    Needs a bigger boat Anti Federalist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackTerrel View Post
    on a more serious note this is fucked. Will just lead to scientists not even sharing their opinions since they can now be held liable any time they are wrong.

    Or maybe they should predict a 9.0 earthquake every day - just in case.
    Why do think the "weather people" freak out at every little storm and hurricane?

    They already got sued, for issuing a bad forecast, years ago, but nobody has gone to jail, yet.
    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 10-22-2012 at 02:33 PM.

  13. #12
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    http://voxday.blogspot.com/2012/10/l...cientista.html

    It's both fascinating and informative, isn't it. Scientists are absolutely certain that the science is settled and they are more than willing to declare what laws should be passed, what classes should be taught, and what massive economic interventions and intrusions on individual freedom should be suffered due to the absolute reliability of their scientific knowledge.

    But hold them personally responsible for their predictions and declarations? Well, that's an outrage! Science isn't actually expected to be reliable, after all! I look forward to seeing climate scientists being similarly prosecuted one day for the complete failure of their predictive models.
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  14. #13

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    lol, EarthLink, really???
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  15. #14

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    Possible liability precedence for this?

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  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Why do think the "weather people" freak out at every little storm and hurricane?

    They already got sued, for issuing a bad forecast, years ago, but nobody has gone to jail, yet.
    Did not know this but sadly it's not surprising anymore.
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  17. #16

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    We should tie them up, throw them in the water and see if they float to determine if they're witches too

  18. #17

    Default ITALY: 7 Quake Experts Convicted of MANSLAUGHTER; "Failure to Warn"

    I consider myself innocent before God and men...

    An Italian court convicted seven scientists and experts of manslaughter on Monday for failing to adequately warn citizens before an earthquake struck central Italy in 2009, killing more than 300 people. The court in L'Aquila also sentenced the defendants to six years in prison. Each one is a member of the national Great Risks Commission.

    Scientists worldwide had decried the trial as ridiculous, contending that science has no reliable way of predicting earthquakes. Among those convicted were some of Italy's most prominent and internationally respected seismologists and geological experts, including Enzo Boschi, former head of the national Institute of Geophysics and Volcanology.
    http://www.myfoxdc.com/story/1988201...-quake-warning
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    Last edited by presence; 10-22-2012 at 05:12 PM.
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    http://my.earthlink.net/article/int?...f-7254107e6ab6

    Italy disaster experts quit over quake trial

    ROME (AP) — Four top Italian disaster experts quit their posts Tuesday, saying the manslaughter convictions of former colleagues for failing to adequately warn of a deadly 2009 earthquake means they can't effectively perform their duties.

    A court in the quake-devastated town of L'Aquila convicted seven former members of Italy's so-called "Great Risks Commission" and sentenced each of them to six years in prison, prompting predictions that experts would be discouraged from working in Italy for fear of similar risks of prosecution.

    Commission President Luciano Maiani and two other members resigned, along with a top official for earthquake and volcano risk in the national Department of Civil Protection. Maiani said Monday's court ruling made it impossible to work in a "calm and efficient" way.

    Prosecutors alleged the defendants — who included some of Italy's most internationally respected quake experts — didn't properly inform town residents of the risk of a big quake following weeks of small tremors. But scientists have ridiculed the case, saying earthquakes cannot be accurately predicted. The convictions are expected to be appealed.

    With the verdict, "we understood why the Great Risks Commission has that name," a front-page commentary began in Corriere della Sera, a Milan daily. "The great risks are those to its members, as one deduces from the verdict."

    Senate President Renato Schifani has called the convictions and prison terms "strange, embarrassing."

    Many scientists and commentators have noted that the court case failed to address a major cause of fatalities in disasters like quakes and mudslides: erecting homes, schools, hospitals and other public buildings on quake-prone terrain without the proper construction techniques or materials to make the structures more resilient.
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  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackTerrel View Post
    Weathermen must be shaking in their boots
    quote of the day
    It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen
    to set brush fires in peoples minds! Revolution is Action upon Revelation!

    The small green parakeet, Tito, was flung helplessly from the cage, landing on the floor. When a girl screamed, the officer sneerd:
    "F*** THE BIRD !!!"
    ...and stomped on it with his jackboot. READ MORE: http://www.policestateusa.com/2013/n...lugo-parakeet/


  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackTerrel View Post
    on a more serious note this is fucked. Will just lead to scientists not even sharing their opinions since they can now be held liable any time they are wrong.

    Or maybe they should predict a 9.0 earthquake every day - just in case.
    Well what if they get hit by a 9.1 earthquake? They'll just get sued for not predicting it to be as strong.

    Here's what I'm wondering now: if scientists and experts in Italy all quit as a result of this decision, and civilization in Italy implodes as a result of the havoc of manslaughter and destruction wreaked on it as a result, will this court itself be tried and convicted for that?

    The Italian people better do something about this for their own sake, i.e. have this decision overturned and have this court shut down immediately, if they don't want their civilization to implode.

  22. #21

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    sad day for science... if someone can predict earthquakes in advance, he or she be one of the most important person(s) on earth.

  23. #22

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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-20039769
    23 October 2012 Last updated at 10:43 ET
    Italy disaster head Luciano Maiani quits over L'Aquila

    The sentences handed down on Monday shocked
    the scientific community



    The head of Italy's disaster body, Luciano Maiani, has resigned to protest against prison sentences passed on seven colleagues over the 2009 earthquake in L'Aquila.
    Six scientists and an ex-official were convicted of multiple manslaughter for giving a falsely reassuring statement.
    Prof Maiani, a physicist, said the Serious Risks Commission could not work "in such difficult conditions".
    The 6.3 magnitude quake killed 309 people and left the city in ruins.
    Prof Maiani's decision to quit was announced by the Italy's Civil Protection department, which said the commission's vice-president, Mauro Rosi, and emeritus president Giuseppe Zamberletti had also tendered their resignations.
    "The situation created by yesterday's sentence... is incompatible with running the commission's work in a calm and efficient manner and with its role of giving high level advice to the organs of the state," Mr Maiani said in a statement on the department's website.
    "These are professionals who spoke in good faith and were by no means motivated by personal interests, they had always said that it is not possible to predict an earthquake," he told the Corriere della Sera newspaper.
    "This is the end of scientists giving consultations to the state," warned Prof Maiani, a world-renowned physicist who was director general of the Cern nuclear research centre in Switzerland from 1999-2003.
    'Perverse and ludicrous' The group, all members of the National Commission for the Forecast and Prevention of Serious Risks, were accused of having provided "inaccurate, incomplete and contradictory" information about the danger of the tremors felt ahead of the 6 April 2009 quake.

    THOSE CONVICTED
    • Franco Barberi, head of Serious Risks Commission
    • Enzo Boschi, former president of the National Institute of Geophysics
    • Giulio Selvaggi, director of National Earthquake Centre
    • Gian Michele Calvi, director of European Centre for Earthquake Engineering
    • Claudio Eva, physicist
    • Mauro Dolce, director of the the Civil Protection Agency's earthquake risk office
    • Bernardo De Bernardinis (pictured), former vice-president of Civil Protection Agency's technical department


    At a meeting a few days before the deadly quake, they had told officials in L'Aquila that, while a major earthquake was not impossible, it was not likely.
    On the night of the quake, many people are said to have remained in their homes and died because of the advice, while others who had decided to remain outside in the street survived.
    In their closing statements at the trial in L'Aquila on Monday, prosecutors quoted a witness whose father died.
    Guido Fioravanti called his mother straight after the first tremor. "I remember the fear in her voice. On other occasions they would have fled but that night, with my father, they repeated to themselves what the risk commission had said. And they stayed."
    However, the six-year jail sentences have shocked the scientific community.
    The prestigious science journal, Nature, said "the verdict is perverse and the sentence ludicrous". It called for protests against the sentence's severity and at scientists being criminalised "for the way their opinions were communicated".
    Leading political figures in Italy suggested that the case had blurred the lines between science and public life.
    "The risk is that doubt will no longer be allowed to form part of scientific judgement," Interior Minister Anna Maria Cancellieri said. "The role of science is not the same as politics or administration."
    The speaker of the lower house of the Italian parliament, Gianfranco Fini, was more blunt in his assessment of the verdict: "I trust it will be corrected on first appeal."
    Among those convicted are some of Italy's most prominent and internationally respected seismologists and geological experts.
    Their defence had called for their acquittal, arguing that it was impossible to predict an earthquake. More than 5,000 scientists said the same thing when they wrote an open letter to Italian President Giorgio Napolitano in support of the men in 2010.
    Reacting to the verdict against him, Bernardo De Bernardinis, former vice-president of the Civil Protection Agency's technical department, said: "I believe myself to be innocent before God and men."
    While the seven men involved are appealing against their convictions - and remain free while they do so - all are facing the prospect of being barred from ever holding public office again.
    Last edited by HOLLYWOOD; 10-23-2012 at 03:21 PM.
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  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by HOLLYWOOD View Post
    Wow, it has started to happen immediately. No surprise there from me.

  25. #24

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    And the worlds scientists are beginning to 'Go Galt'.

  26. #25

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    The world is losing its mind.
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    See something, say something?





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