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Thread: Germany wants its gold

  1. #1

    Default Germany wants its gold

    Check it out:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-1...-gold-holdings

    I assume the international gold market is as corrupt and full of paper pledges backed by nothing as any other financial market. Assuming that is true, this could be the start of something big. This is not a pipsqueak like Chavez thumbing his nose at the Anglo-American banking cartel. This is the biggest economic powerhouse in Europe tightening its grip on its hard assets. It reminds me of when France and others demanded full conversion of dollars into gold and killed Bretton Woods.

    To all owners of paper claims to gold: don't be the last one to seek redemption.
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  3. #2
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    I have no paper , although , I would not have been bothered to much by having some paper , five years ago , or so , would not want anything I did not hold now.But , that is just me .

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    SOME Germans want their gold apparently.

    A better translation with more information (Der Spiegel's English version)(nothing about repatriating 50 tonnes a year- the Bundesbank doesn't want to spend the money to do it):
    http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-833289.html
    Germans Fret about Their Foreign Gold Reserves

    Germany has gold reserves of just under 3,400 tons, the second-largest reserves in the world after the United States. Much of that is in the safekeeping of central banks outside Germany, especially in the US Federal Reserve in New York. One would think that with such a valuable stash, worth around €133 billion ($170 billion), the German government would want to keep a close eye on its whereabouts. But now a bizarre dispute has broken out between different German institutions over how closely the reserves should be checked.

    Germany's federal audit office, the Bundesrechnungshof, which monitors the German government's financial management, is unhappy with how Germany's central bank, the Bundesbank, keeps tabs on its gold. According to media reports, the auditors are dissatisfied with the fact that gold reserves in Frankfurt are more closely monitored than those held abroad.

    In Germany, spot checks are carried out to make sure that the gold bars are in the right place. But for the German gold that is stored on the Bundesbank's behalf by the US Federal Reserve in New York, the Bank of England in London and the Banque de France in France, the German central bank relies on the assurances of its foreign counterparts that the gold is where it should be. The three foreign central banks give the Bundesbank annual statements confirming the size of the reserves, but the Germans do not usually carry out physical inspections of the bars.

    'No Doubts'

    According to German media reports, the Bundesrechnungshof has now recommended in its confidential annual audit of the Bundesbank for 2011 that Germany's central bank check its foreign gold reserves with yearly spot checks.

    The Bundesbank has rejected the demand, arguing that central banks do not usually check each others' reserves. "The scope of the checks that the Bundesrechnungshof wants does not correspond to the usual practices among central banks," the Bundesbank said in a statement quoted by the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung newspaper. "There are no doubts about the integrity and the reputation of these foreign depositories."

    Now the finance committee of the German parliament, the Bundestag, has gotten involved. Parliamentarians apparently demanded to see the Bundesrechnungshof's audit report on the Bundesbank after they were alarmed by a report in the influential tabloid daily Bild, which claimed that the central bank had not checked its gold reserves in five years.. The Bundesrechnungshof will now provide the committee with its report, a spokesman for the federal auditors confirmed on Monday.

    Germany moved some of its gold reserves abroad during the Cold War to protect them from a possible Soviet attack. Some of the gold was moved back to Frankfurt after the collapse of communism. But the Bundesbank argues that it still makes sense to store some gold in major financial centers so that it can be sold quickly if necessary. Although the Bundesbank does not provide exact details about the distribution, it has revealed that the largest share of Germany's gold is held in New York, followed by Frankfurt, London and Paris.

    Skeptical about the Reserves

    In times of uncertainty about the future of Europe's common currency, gold is a hot topic, and some Germans take a dim view of the fact that much of the country's gold -- which theoretically belongs to the people -- is held abroad. Some members of parliament have even expressed doubts as to whether the foreign gold reserves really exist. Philipp Missfelder, a member of the conservative Christian Democratic Union (CDU), wanted to see the gold for himself and traveled to New York in person to inspect the holdings, according to the newspaper Frankfurter Rundschau. His trip was apparently unsuccessful, though. When he visited the Fed's safes in New York, staff were either unable or unwilling to show him exactly which bars belonged to Germany.

    Peter Gauweiler, a Bundestag member with the CDU's Bavarian sister party, the Christian Social Union (CSU), is also skeptical about the foreign gold reserves. In recent years he has attempted to gain more information about Germany's gold through parliamentary questions. Last year, he had an economics professor prepare an expert report on the subject, which concluded that the Bundesbank was not fulfilling its inventory regulations by failing to physically inspect the gold.

    In July 2011, SPIEGEL reported that Bundesbank employees had physically seen the gold in New York within the previous six months. However, the last time it had been checked before that was in June 2007.

    Gauweiler doubts that the Bundesbank would have immediate access to all its gold if necessary, suggesting that part of the gold may have even been lent out -- a claim that the Bundesbank rejects.

    Bringing Back Home


    Some Germans even want to bring the gold reserves back to Germany. An initiative called "Gold Action" is campaigning under the slogan: "Repatriate Our Gold!" Its petition has been signed by prominent industrialist Hans-Olaf Henkel and Frank Schäffler, a parliamentarian with the business-friendly Free Democrats who is known for his euroskeptic views.

    The initiative alleges that there is an "acute" danger that the German gold could be expropriated as a result of the financial and debt crisis. They argue that the German government could soon be forced to sell gold to cover the costs of the crisis.

    But the Bundesbank wants to leave the gold where it is. Observers point out that apart from the high cost of transporting the gold back to Frankfurt, the symbolic effect of Germany repatriating its gold reserves might unsettle the nervous financial markets, who could see it as a sign of an impending collapse of the euro.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 10-22-2012 at 12:08 PM.
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  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    SOME Germans want their gold apparently.

    A better translation with more information (Der Spiegel's English version)(nothing about repatriating 50 tonnes a year- the Bundesbank doesn't want to spend the money to do it):
    http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-833289.html
    Hahahahaha! The German Central Bank doesn't want anyone shining a light into the gold dealings within the Central Bank cartel. Color me not surprised.
    The proper concern of society is the preservation of individual freedom; the proper concern of the individual is the harmony of society.

    "Who would be free, themselves must strike the blow." - Byron

    "Who overcomes by force, hath overcome but half his foe." - Milton

  7. #6

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    So publicly we have his report. Privately they want it home.?

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by jkr View Post
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    +rep too funny
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  9. #8

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    Rehypothecation's a bitch.

    He who defects first, defects best.
    "Like an army falling, one by one by one" - Linkin Park

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphim View Post
    Rehypothecation's a bitch.

    He who defects first, defects best.
    Yup. Like musical chairs, but they keep the music going as long as they can while they continue to remove chairs until there are dozens of people for each chair. Then the music stops.
    The proper concern of society is the preservation of individual freedom; the proper concern of the individual is the harmony of society.

    "Who would be free, themselves must strike the blow." - Byron

    "Who overcomes by force, hath overcome but half his foe." - Milton

  11. #10

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    I was born a defect (from the system).

    I was not left a chair, so I built my own.

    Quote Originally Posted by Acala View Post
    Yup. Like musical chairs, but they keep the music going as long as they can while they continue to remove chairs until there are dozens of people for each chair. Then the music stops.
    "Like an army falling, one by one by one" - Linkin Park

  12. #11

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    I was just wondering today about if other countries ever wondered about our gold. This article says that other countries are wondering where THEIR gold is, too. They store it in foreign countries?? Geez, what a mixed up mess. Seems to be the stuff that world wars are made of to me.

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by wgadget View Post
    I was just wondering today about if other countries ever wondered about our gold. This article says that other countries are wondering where THEIR gold is, too. They store it in foreign countries?? Geez, what a mixed up mess. Seems to be the stuff that world wars are made of to me.
    Well , I have no , real idea what a Country really holds, but , I know what I have in various places .......

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    Quote Originally Posted by wgadget View Post
    I was just wondering today about if other countries ever wondered about our gold. This article says that other countries are wondering where THEIR gold is, too. They store it in foreign countries?? Geez, what a mixed up mess. Seems to be the stuff that world wars are made of to me.
    Most of the gold owned by central banks and governments were held in London and New York or Fort Knox. When gold was sold or traded to another country instead of facing the risks and costs of shipping the gold around, the gold stayed in the vaults it was originally in- they moved the pallets for one country either to another room in the vaults or sometimes just a different corner of the room representing that country and placed a sign indicating who's gold it was. For some countries, they may not have had a location they considered safe and secure enough to store their own gold in their own country.
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  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    For some countries, they may not have had a location they considered safe and secure enough to store their own gold in their own country.
    And there's the rub, and the irony for those who are buying PM's as a hedge, and concerned about confiscation by thieves, public or private. Whole countries are in that same boat, realizing that while they may control their populations to an extent, even they are not safe from enemies foreign. A war breaks out, a whole country is defeated, and its gold is ransacked, the windfall going to the foreign victors.

    Solution: Get the biggest, baddest inmate you can find on prison planet, and ask him to look after it for you (honor among people-controlling thieves and all that).

    Uncle Sam: "Sure, we'll look after your gold for you! We only steal from our own citizens (FDR 1933), certainly not from other countries (Nixon 1971)."

    The ultimate solution (for ordinary people, not governments and their centralized banks): Get as many freely floating competing currencies in circulation as possible, and all that gold becomes a relative non-factor.

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Most of the gold owned by central banks and governments were held in London and New York or Fort Knox. When gold was sold or traded to another country instead of facing the risks and costs of shipping the gold around, the gold stayed in the vaults it was originally in- they moved the pallets for one country either to another room in the vaults or sometimes just a different corner of the room representing that country and placed a sign indicating who's gold it was. For some countries, they may not have had a location they considered safe and secure enough to store their own gold in their own country.
    What could go wrong with a system like that?
    The proper concern of society is the preservation of individual freedom; the proper concern of the individual is the harmony of society.

    "Who would be free, themselves must strike the blow." - Byron

    "Who overcomes by force, hath overcome but half his foe." - Milton

  17. #16

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    This Marketwatch article is about the ten countries that control the world's gold. If you jump to page 10, you can read about Germany, who has the second most gold after the USA. I found the article very interesting.

    http://www.marketwatch.com/story/10-...ink=MW_popular

  18. #17

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    Coincidentally, the European Central Bank's leader addressed the Germans yesterday. They appear to be worried about INFLATION.

    http://mobile.businessweek.com/artic...arket-is-wrong
    Last edited by wgadget; 10-25-2012 at 04:27 PM.

  19. #18

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    With all the bailout talk in Europe (and generally accepted that Germany catches the brunt of the devaluation), I wonder if German politicians aren't waking up to the realities of what's going on with their country's gold and is now clashing with the Bundesbank (another Rothschild controlled central bank) about the status of their gold reserves. Sorta like if Congress here started seriously putting pressure on the Fed to fully audit our gold holdings like RP has advocated. Germans are known to be much more serious folk than Americans are so maybe they are indeed looking to be the first defector. Interesting development nonetheless.
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  20. #19

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    The thread title is disturbing grammatically. It's part of an odd manner of speech I've observed the last decade or so. Inanimate nouns like "Germany" cannot, by their nature, (verb) anything. People who write these headlines should instead write "German Officials", "German People", or whatever animate noun(s) apply. Just a pet peeve. My OT rant is now done. /end ramble
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  21. #20

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    "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    The thread title is disturbing grammatically. It's part of an odd manner of speech I've observed the last decade or so. Inanimate nouns like "Germany" cannot, by their nature, (verb) anything. People who write these headlines should instead write "German Officials", "German People", or whatever animate noun(s) apply. Just a pet peeve. My OT rant is now done. /end ramble
    The Planet Earth wants HB34 to chill.
    The proper concern of society is the preservation of individual freedom; the proper concern of the individual is the harmony of society.

    "Who would be free, themselves must strike the blow." - Byron

    "Who overcomes by force, hath overcome but half his foe." - Milton

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Acala View Post
    The Planet Earth wants HB34 to chill.
    lolz I'm chilled...bad grammar and usage just irks me. As does singing out of tune and a number of other things.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul
    The government is incapable of doing what it's supposed to do. A job like the provision of security is something best left to private institutions.
    My music/art page is here"government is the enemy of liberty"-RP
    That which doesn't kill me has made a grave tactical error
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    This whole board is a thoughtcrime in progress.
    Quote Originally Posted by danke View Post
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  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Acala View Post
    The Planet Earth wants HB34 to chill.
    And I bet Uranus wants him to stay on Planet Earth.
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  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    And I bet Uranus wants him to stay on Planet Earth.
    With its monopoly on space-time, the Universe wants everyone to stay put and chill. Brrrr...all this global cooling gives me the pee shivers something fierce.

  26. #25

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    This situation reminds me of the old goldsmiths (the original banks) who used to keep peoples gold and then give them a certificate of deposit, and then the smith's would loan the gold out to other parties, knowing that the depositors wouldn't want to withdraw all their gold at once. Of course, this was totally wrong, and many goldsmith's went out of business when their depositors began to make withdrawls in mass. This same situation could happen again, but on a global scale, and at that point, whosoevers holding the real physical metal, will be rewarded BIGTIME.
    Last edited by DFF; 10-25-2012 at 06:45 PM.

  27. #26

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    I believe it's called a figure of speech...Part as a whole or personification or something.

    The headline should be the least of our worries, imo.

  28. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acala View Post
    Check it out:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-1...-gold-holdings

    I assume the international gold market is as corrupt and full of paper pledges backed by nothing as any other financial market. Assuming that is true, this could be the start of something big. This is not a pipsqueak like Chavez thumbing his nose at the Anglo-American banking cartel. This is the biggest economic powerhouse in Europe tightening its grip on its hard assets. It reminds me of when France and others demanded full conversion of dollars into gold and killed Bretton Woods.

    To all owners of paper claims to gold: don't be the last one to seek redemption.
    I can see the headlines... "German court officials all die in freak airline disaster..."
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  29. #28

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    Germans cause alarm with visit to Iran (BTW, the article states that GERMANY is IRAN'S BIGGEST TRADING PARTNER).

    http://www.jpost.com/International/A...aspx?id=289103

    Found on today's Drudge Report. For some reason the Germans are getting a lot of financial press of late.

  30. #29

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    A little more US/German angst, perhaps? (From Germany/Iran Wiki page)

    Trade

    Around 50 German firms have their own branch offices in Iran and more than 12,000 firms have their own trade representatives in Iran. Several renowned German companies are involved in major Iranian infrastructure projects, especially in the petrochemical sector, like Linde, BASF, Lurgi, Krupp, Siemens, ZF Friedrichshafen, Mercedes, Volkswagen and MAN (2008).[25]

    In 2005 Germany had the largest share of Iran's export market with $5.67 billion (14.4%).[26] In 2008, German exports to Iran increased 8.9 percent and comprised 84.7 percent of the total German-Iranian trade volume. The overall bilateral trade volume until the end of September 2008 stood at 3.23 billion euros, compared to 2.98 billion euros the previous year.[25][27] The value of trade between Tehran and Berlin has increased from around 4.3 billion euro in 2009 to nearly 4.7 billion euro in 2010.[28]

    The German Chambers of Industry and Commerce (DIHK) has estimated that economic sanctions against Iran may cost more than 10,000 German jobs and have a negative impact on the economic growth of Germany. Sanctions would especially hurt medium-sized German companies, which depend heavily on trade with Iran.[25] There has been a shift in German business ties with Iran from long-term business to short-term and from large to mid-sized companies which have less business interests in the US and thus are less prone to American political pressure.[29]

  31. #30

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    alleged update says germans are getting interference from the Fed on gold holdings. Not sure this is current events.

    http://www.silverdoctors.com/german-...ow-inspection/
    Last edited by devil21; 11-10-2012 at 04:12 AM.
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