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Thread: does this quote from obama make sense?

  1. #1

    Default does this quote from obama make sense?

    “think about what the governor just said. He said when I took office, the price of gasoline was $1.80, $1.86. Why is that? Because the economy was on the verge of collapse, because we were about to go through the worst recession since the Great Depression, as a consequence of some of the same policies that Governor Romney's now promoting.”



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  3. #2
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    In a recession there is a lot less demand for oil bringing prices down.

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    No , it does not make sense , the same amount of people or more in the world now are not driving to work as then.

  6. #5

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    Does it make sense?

    Anyone who thinks gas was less than two bucks a gallon in 2008 probably couldn't put fuel in a car if he had a gas can and a key to the trunk. He couldn't figure out how to get the nozzle off the pump and turn the thing on.

    The economy is no better now than four years ago. Not one bit. If a lack of demand due to the economic malaise were the only factor, gas would cost about the same now as it did then.

    Obama policies, especially in regard to economics and energy, are pretty damned hard to distinguish from Dubya's, too. In fact, we know his policies are very similar. We don't know that about Romney because Romney is keeping those policies Top Secret. If he told us what his policies are, he'd have to kill us.

    Do they make sense? I don't recall hearing anything during that debate that made much sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Calvin Coolidge View Post
    There is danger of disappointment and disaster unless there be a wider comprehension of the limitations of the law. The attempt to regulate, control, and prescribe all manner of conduct and social relations is very old. It was always the practice of primitive peoples.
    Quote Originally Posted by Will Rogers View Post
    It's a mighty hard thing to tell nowadays whether an idea is revolutionary, or downright conservative.

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    There was a sharp drop in demand for oil when the global economy collapsed. The drop was quicker than production of oil could respond to so prices fell. Demand has risen since then and so have prices. There was not action by the Bush administration which drove down the price of gas and there was no action by Obama which caused it to rise from its low. If Ron Paul was president at the time, the same thing would have happened. If the economy grows faster, so will the demand for oil and the price will rise even more. Most of the increase in demand since then comes from China.
    In China alone consumption has risen by over 4m barrels per day in the past decade, accounting for two-fifths of the global rise. In 2010 consumption exceeded production by over 5m barrels per day for the first year ever, as world oil stocks were run down.
    http://www.economist.com/blogs/daily...nd-consumption

    Chart from same link: (note the dip in demand in 2008):

    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 10-18-2012 at 12:46 PM.
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  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    There was not action by the Bush administration which drove down the price of gas and there was no action by Obama which caused it to rise from its low.
    Kind of strong statements. I think the Dubya Administration does share complicity in the trashing of the economy, for example. And starting a few more Mid-East police actions in Libya, among others, did help increase the oil price.
    Quote Originally Posted by Calvin Coolidge View Post
    There is danger of disappointment and disaster unless there be a wider comprehension of the limitations of the law. The attempt to regulate, control, and prescribe all manner of conduct and social relations is very old. It was always the practice of primitive peoples.
    Quote Originally Posted by Will Rogers View Post
    It's a mighty hard thing to tell nowadays whether an idea is revolutionary, or downright conservative.

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    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Does it make sense?

    Anyone who thinks gas was less than two bucks a gallon in 2008 probably couldn't put fuel in a car if he had a gas can and a key to the trunk. He couldn't figure out how to get the nozzle off the pump and turn the thing on.

    The economy is no better now than four years ago. Not one bit. If a lack of demand due to the economic malaise were the only factor, gas would cost about the same now as it did then.

    Obama policies, especially in regard to economics and energy, are pretty damned hard to distinguish from Dubya's, too. In fact, we know his policies are very similar. We don't know that about Romney because Romney is keeping those policies Top Secret. If he told us what his policies are, he'd have to kill us.

    Do they make sense? I don't recall hearing anything during that debate that made much sense.
    Gas did get below 2 dollars in 2008
    "Look, the American people have chosen to have a fiat money standard because they want a welfare state. You cannot have a gold standard and a welfare state at the same time. You have to make the choice. We have made a decision as a society that we’ll be dealing with the welfare state." -Alan Greenspan

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Does it make sense?

    Anyone who thinks gas was less than two bucks a gallon in 2008 probably couldn't put fuel in a car if he had a gas can and a key to the trunk. He couldn't figure out how to get the nozzle off the pump and turn the thing on.
    Ummm....


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    Kind of strong statements. I think the Dubya Administration does share complicity in the trashing of the economy, for example. And starting a few more Mid-East police actions in Libya, among others, did help increase the oil price.
    I agree he (and Congress) did impact the economy. But they can't target a price like oil (well, to a limited extent they can if they decide to tap the Strategic Oil reserve to increase supplies).
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 10-18-2012 at 01:55 PM.
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  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    I agree he (and Congress) did impact the economy. But they can't target a price like oil (well, to a limited extent they can if they decide to tap the Strategic Oil reserve to increase supplies).
    Which they did to drive the price down to two bucks in time for the election (as some sharp-eyed fact checkers have reminded me)...

    Not that it wasn't too little too late to get that bastard McCain elected.
    Quote Originally Posted by Calvin Coolidge View Post
    There is danger of disappointment and disaster unless there be a wider comprehension of the limitations of the law. The attempt to regulate, control, and prescribe all manner of conduct and social relations is very old. It was always the practice of primitive peoples.
    Quote Originally Posted by Will Rogers View Post
    It's a mighty hard thing to tell nowadays whether an idea is revolutionary, or downright conservative.

  13. #12

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    Gas prices are still pretty low... Unless you are buying gas with dollars.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

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    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Which they did to drive the price down to two bucks in time for the election (as some sharp-eyed fact checkers have reminded me)...

    Not that it wasn't too little too late to get that bastard McCain elected.
    Any links to tapping the Strategic Reserve in 2008?

    On April 25, 2006, President Bush announced a temporary halt to petroleum deposits to the SPR as part of a four point program to alleviate high fuel prices.[citation needed]

    On January 23, 2007, President Bush suggested in his State of the Union speech that Congress should approve expansion of the current reserve capacity to twice its current level.[10]

    In April 2008, Speaker Pelosi called on President Bush to suspend purchases of oil for the Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPR) temporarily.

    On May 12, 2008, Rep. Peter Welch (D, Vermont) and 63 co-sponsors introduced the Strategic Petroleum Reserve Fill Suspension and Consumer Protection Act bill (H.R.6022), to suspend the acquisition of petroleum for the Strategic Petroleum Reserve.[11]

    On May 16, 2008, the U.S. Department of Energy said it would halt all deliveries to the Strategic Petroleum Reserve sometime in July. This announcement came days after Congress voted to direct the Bush administration to do the same. The U.S. Department of Energy did not state when the shipments would resume.[12]

    On May 19, 2008, President Bush signed the Act passed by the Congress, which he previously opposed.[13]

    On January 2, 2009, the U.S. Energy Department said that it would begin buying approximately 12,000,000 barrels (1,900,000 m3) of crude oil to fill the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, replenishing supplies that were sold after hurricanes Katrina and Rita in 2005. The purchase will be funded by the roughly $600 million received in 2005 from the emergency sales.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strateg...United_States)

    Combined with another timeline:
    http://www.treehugger.com/cars/2008-...in-review.html
    July 7, 2008—Crude oil prices settled-in at a new record of $147 per barrel. The U.S. average price for regular gasoline climbs to an all-time high of $4.11 per gallon. Road trip style vacations are put on hold for many summer travelers.

    Aug. 5, 2008—Oil prices fall below $120 a barrel. Treehuggers search for the good within the escalating gas prices.

    Sept. 15, 2008—The barrel continues to drop below $100 a barrel for the first time in six months. The idea of a serious financial industry recession is discussed as the market literally begins to melt down!

    Oct. 16, 2008—Oil prices fall below $70 a barrel, which is less than half of its July peak. Signs of $1.99 a gallon gas brings celebration to the masses. Some consumers begin to talk about dragging out their gas guzzling SUV's and Winnebago's for the first time in months.

    Nov. 3, 2008—U.S. Gas prices drop to $1.72 a gallon. Some gas stations even roll out a $.99 cent promotional deal. Treehuggers question whether the sudden drop is as good as most consumers seem to think it is.

    Dec. 17, 2008—OPEC removes 2.2 million barrels from its daily production. Crude oil collapses to $40 a barrel, becoming the lowest price in almost 4 years.

    Dec. 19, 2008—After weeks of negotiation, Bush approves the emergency bailout of the U.S. auto industries big three, giving them $17.4 billion in rescue loans. Treehugger questions whether the government is doing the right thing.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 10-18-2012 at 02:33 PM.
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  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bohner View Post
    Ummm....

    Let's look at that chart in context with Obama's quote...

    “think about what the governor just said. He said when I took office, the price of gasoline was $1.80, $1.86. Why is that? Because the economy was on the verge of collapse, because we were about to go through the worst recession since the Great Depression, as a consequence of some of the same policies that Governor Romney's now promoting. ”

    First of all, the statement about prices was more or less true, but never put into any meaningful context in the debate. The average weekly price of gas was $1.90/gallon.

    The rest of the statement was also technically true, albeit an extremely poor choice of words, again with no context. GWB's second term started with gas at around $1.90, and ended about the same rate: around $1.90. Pay no attention to what happened in between? The economy was ALREADY "on the verge of collapse", before Obama took office. In reality, gas prices steadily soared under both Dubya's terms. The downward momentary spike, only at the end of those two terms, came on the heels of the housing bubble crash, while Dubya was still in office.

    The $1.80, $1.86 prices were NEVER, EVER the norm. They are transient values that only applied to parts of 2004 and a small part of the end of 2008/beginning of 2009.

  16. #15

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    http://www.energy-daily.com/reports/...s_ask_999.html

    Baton Rouge, Louisiana (AFP) Sept 3, 2008
    US President George W. Bush said Wednesday that he would release oil from the US strategic reserve "upon requests" from companies in the wake of Hurricane Gustav.

    "Last night we got a request from a company doing business here in Louisiana and we met that request. And so oil was released from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve. And we will continue to do that upon requests by companies," he said.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 10-18-2012 at 02:45 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Calvin Coolidge View Post
    There is danger of disappointment and disaster unless there be a wider comprehension of the limitations of the law. The attempt to regulate, control, and prescribe all manner of conduct and social relations is very old. It was always the practice of primitive peoples.
    Quote Originally Posted by Will Rogers View Post
    It's a mighty hard thing to tell nowadays whether an idea is revolutionary, or downright conservative.

  17. #16

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    In any case, we know that the Obama intention is to reduce demand, by force if necessary, as opposed to an energy policy that would have the effect of increasing supply. If you believe in liberty, one of the two approaches is clearly preferable to the other.
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    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    http://www.energy-daily.com/reports/...s_ask_999.html

    Baton Rouge, Louisiana (AFP) Sept 3, 2008
    US President George W. Bush said Wednesday that he would release oil from the US strategic reserve "upon requests" from companies in the wake of Hurricane Gustav.

    "Last night we got a request from a company doing business here in Louisiana and we met that request. And so oil was released from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve. And we will continue to do that upon requests by companies," he said.
    Thanks. Looks like they "lent" one company one million barrels of oil from the reserve. That would not have made much dent in the global supply or the price of oil though. Global production is about 87 billion barrels a day. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...oil_production

    (My link is wrong date and hurricane. Looking for relevant one. Sorry.)

    Those too were small loans apparently and not significant withdrawls- enough to maintain supplies, not to increase them to the point them would have had any depressive impact on prices.
    http://www.fossil.energy.gov/program...-drawdown.html
    September 1, 2008, Hurricane Gustav entered Louisiana west of New Orleans as a Category Two hurricane. The storm disrupted the production of oil in the Gulf and damaged the petroleum industry infrastructure necessary to receive, process and distribute the crude oil and product. The Secretary of Energy announced that DOE would favorably consider requests for releases of crude oil from the SPR in order to supply refineries that were still able to operate. The SPR releases would be executed using the Secretary's emergency test exchange authority. The first request was received on September 2nd and was quickly approved. Additional requests followed and were also approved.

    The first delivery began on September 9, 2008. As the SPR continued to review requests for emergency loans and deliver oil following Hurricane Gustav, the Nation was watching the progress of Hurricane Ike as it moved towards the U.S. Gulf Coast.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 10-18-2012 at 03:31 PM.
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  19. #18

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    Another indisputable wiki quote.

    I don't personally know that Marathon was the only beneficiary. And the mere announcement that reserves will be released is generally sufficient to affect the price...
    Quote Originally Posted by Calvin Coolidge View Post
    There is danger of disappointment and disaster unless there be a wider comprehension of the limitations of the law. The attempt to regulate, control, and prescribe all manner of conduct and social relations is very old. It was always the practice of primitive peoples.
    Quote Originally Posted by Will Rogers View Post
    It's a mighty hard thing to tell nowadays whether an idea is revolutionary, or downright conservative.

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    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Another indisputable wiki quote.

    I don't personally know that Marathon was the only beneficiary. And the mere announcement that reserves will be released is generally sufficient to affect the price...
    (Wiki link was only to show global oil production figures)

    Let's see what happened. The hurricane was the start of September 2008. What did the price of oil do?
    http://www.fedprimerate.com/crude-oil-price-history.htm
    Looks like it was already trending down from July but the end of September is the same as the beginning of September.
    July 11, 2008 $145.08
    July 18, 2008 $128.88
    July 25, 2008 $123.26
    August 1, 2008 $125.10
    August 8, 2008 $115.20
    August 15, 2008 $113.77
    August 22, 2008 $114.59
    August 29, 2008 $115.46
    September 5, 2008 $106.23
    September 12, 2008 $101.18
    September 19, 2008 $104.55
    September 26, 2008 $106.89
    What about gas prices?
    http://money.cnn.com/2008/11/26/news...sink/index.htm
    Prices at the pump have been on a rollercoaster in 2008. Soaring prices curtailed travel this summer, and Americans waited months for a reprieve. They cut back spending in order to fill their gas tanks.

    When the price reached the record-high $4.114 a gallon set on July 17, gas prices had risen already 35% year-over-year.

    Gas prices finally began to sink on Aug. 21, as the dollar strengthened and oil prices saw their biggest drop in 17 years.

    Late August brought Hurricane Gustav threatening infrastructure in the Gulf of Mexico. The storm shut down nearly all crude oil production and 82% of natural gas production in the Gulf region. Soon after, Hurricane Ike loomed over Texas and gas prices shot up in September, reaching more than $5 per gallon in some parts of the country during the early part of the month.

    On Sept. 16, gas prices started declined as crude prices began trending lower amid weakening demand.

    Meanhwile, the global economic slowdown continued to churn. The government's $700 billion Wall Street bailout plan punished the dollar, and on Sept. 21, oil prices posted their biggest one-day dollar gain.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 10-18-2012 at 04:07 PM.
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