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Thread: North Korean soldier kills two officers, defects to south

  1. #1

    Default North Korean soldier kills two officers, defects to south

    ...but when the trumpets blew again and the knights charged, the name they cried was "Stannis! Stannis! STANNIS!"



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  3. #2

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    Considering the fact some soldiers were also involved in a shoot out some months back, it is safe to say the North Korean force cannot be one million strong anymore.

  4. #3

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    Latest info i read on NK is that they are having severe food shortages, and one of the ways they are going to try and increase production is by "allowing" the farmers to keep more of their produce for market sales.

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    Next year could be worse: (article one month old):
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8830CO20120904


    Destitute North Korea's grain harvest seen falling sharply

    Chronically hungry North Korea could lose as much as 13 percent of its grain harvest this year as a result of drought followed by widespread flooding, a South Korean official said on Tuesday.

    The grim forecast follows a warning last week by an aide worker just back from a visit to the destitute North that it could be facing a return to famine which cost the lives of an estimated 1 million North Koreans in the 1990s.

    "North Korea's food situation next year could be difficult," the South Korean official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, told Reuters.

    He estimated the crop loss at 600,000 tonnes in a country which even when in years of good harvest has to turn to the outside world for help to feed its population of 24 million.

    The expected grain shortage coincides with the isolated North Korean government's promises to reform its broken economy and attempts to increase its contacts with the outside world, especially ally China which helps prop up its neighbor.

    The United Nations estimates that the North needs around 5.3 million tonnes of grain a year and can normally produce 4.5 million tonnes. The predicted shortfall this year is equivalent to a 13 percent drop.

    The head of Danish aid group Mission East told Reuters last week after a visit to affected areas the North could be heading back into famine.

    Kim Hartzner said that after the heavy flooding, including from a typhoon in August, the North had little capacity to deal with any more damage.
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  6. #5

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    Man, I can't imagine how shitty it'd be to live in NK. I worked with a guy who fled from there when he was 19 or 20. He said they were shooting at him as he was running, had to swim across a crazy river, and all kinds of other madness... He was a good guy.

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    Changing would be extremely hard on people should North Korea open up more. They briefly allowed exchanges between North and South Korea and as bad as things are in the North, the people from there were ready to return after their stays in the South because everything was so foreign to what they were accustomed to. EVen though they used to be one country, they diverged so much since the separation that they can no longer relate to each other much beyond calling themselves Koreans.
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  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Changing would be extremely hard on people should North Korea open up more. They briefly allowed exchanges between North and South Korea and as bad as things are in the North, the people from there were ready to return after their stays in the South because everything was so foreign to what they were accustomed to. EVen though they used to be one country, they diverged so much since the separation that they can no longer relate to each other much beyond calling themselves Koreans.
    our world views compose of all the information we take in and process. media controls our world views by filtering information to us and thus controls our world views.
    the differences between NK and SK can be attributed by each regions media fed world views.
    had the NK people grew up in a free state with free media with liberty slant, their world views would reflect that info.
    Last edited by torchbearer; 10-07-2012 at 12:08 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Changing would be extremely hard on people should North Korea open up more. They briefly allowed exchanges between North and South Korea and as bad as things are in the North, the people from there were ready to return after their stays in the South because everything was so foreign to what they were accustomed to. EVen though they used to be one country, they diverged so much since the separation that they can no longer relate to each other much beyond calling themselves Koreans.
    They were ready to return because they had left families there and/or because they were hand-picked by the regime to those visits - they weren't common North Koreans.

    That's exactly the spin and propaganda that was used to be told about East Germany and the rest of the Soviet block. Just a rationale to justify keeping the status quo. Change in North Korea would be hard on the oligarchy that rules the country and keeps the rest of the population enslaved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by youngbuck View Post
    Man, I can't imagine how shitty it'd be to live in NK. I worked with a guy who fled from there when he was 19 or 20. He said they were shooting at him as he was running, had to swim across a crazy river, and all kinds of other madness... He was a good guy.
    Anyone who flees repression, can't be anything other than a good guy. They're usually the most anti-authoritarian types of people out there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by youngbuck View Post
    Man, I can't imagine how shitty it'd be to live in NK. I worked with a guy who fled from there when he was 19 or 20. He said they were shooting at him as he was running, had to swim across a crazy river, and all kinds of other madness... He was a good guy.
    Dude is nothing short of a hero.
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  12. #11

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    I highly recommend this documentary. It explains how difficult it is to come out of the county. Not only that, who ever defects knows their family will be in a concentration camp for the rest of their lives:

    Statistics don't lie, people do.

  13. #12

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    This is also very good and fresh out:





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    Default Seriously ZippyJuan?

    "Changing would be extremely hard on people should North Korea open up more. They briefly allowed exchanges between North and South Korea and as bad as things are in the North, the people from there were ready to return after their stays in the South because everything was so foreign to what they were accustomed to. EVen though they used to be one country, they diverged so much since the separation that they can no longer relate to each other much beyond calling themselves Koreans." -ZippyJuan

    Changing was also extremely hard on the holocaust survivors because they were malnourished and sometimes so much good food killed them. From what I've read it seems many North Koreans live in what is essentially the same life as people being held in Nazi death camps. Yeah, maybe a regime change and more freedom would be a shock to their system so to speak, but their lives and their children's and grandchildren's lives would GREATLY improve. A move to a freerer society would be the best thing to ever happen to them and with the reports of the people who have escaped, it sounds like North Koreans want change, but can't say it because in their country people are treated worse than slaves with the military having perks like having their own whores so as to keep them loyal. Yeah, North Koreans may not be able to relate to free people, but to use that as a reason to state, "Changing would be extremely hard on them" is just flat ridiculous. I have to hear an explanation on this. Do you really believe after living in a free state for five years the North Koreans would be protesting in order to return to the old ways? Give me a BREAK! They are starving and many times being killed like dogs for looking at an official the wrong way.

  15. #14

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    The problem is the contrasting cultures. Since the split, the South has become very modern and westernized while much of the North really never left the 50s. The Kims have gone to great lengths to successfully filter out every possible outside influence. I had to laugh at people who were stupid enough to consider Ron Paul an "isolationist". If there's ever been an example of an isolationist country, it's North Korea. I don't think Ron Paul planned to turn us into North Korea.
    ...but when the trumpets blew again and the knights charged, the name they cried was "Stannis! Stannis! STANNIS!"

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Austrian Econ Disciple View Post
    Anyone who flees repression, can't be anything other than a good guy. They're usually the most anti-authoritarian types of people out there.
    You'd think that, but Marco Rubio.

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Changing would be extremely hard on people should North Korea open up more. They briefly allowed exchanges between North and South Korea and as bad as things are in the North, the people from there were ready to return after their stays in the South because everything was so foreign to what they were accustomed to. EVen though they used to be one country, they diverged so much since the separation that they can no longer relate to each other much beyond calling themselves Koreans.

    Not a single economists believes the North Korean model is sustainable. Even Kim Jung Un's brother said publicly that the North Koreans government believes their system will collapse within a few decades. It's either they have Capitalistic reforms or the nation will crash. There is no question about that. The reformation wouldn't be that difficult, and some smaller capitalistic market reforms were enacted last year. They seem to be successful so far.

    Also, I have no clue what you're talking about this instance where North & South Koreans could freely interact with one another. There was a situation back in the Bush era where North Koreans could visit South Korean relatives. But they were all elderly and by no means were given a chance to move to the South. So you're statement is completely off and a bit odd to be honest with you.

  18. #17

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    Ironically NK can manufacture heavy artillery and weapons, but it can't feed its people. One interesting note is that North Korea invented Vinylon a fabric and celebrated that as a success of their "ingenuity".
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  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanilluxe View Post
    Ironically NK can manufacture heavy artillery and weapons, but it can't feed its people. One interesting note is that North Korea invented Vinylon a fabric and celebrated that as a success of their "ingenuity".
    How is it ironic? It's a communist shithole whose leaders value artillery and weapons more than its people.
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  20. #19

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    South Korea has been heavily subsidized by the US Taxpayers for the past 62 years. All the US military bases/installations, weapons, 10,000s in US personnel, and very favorable trade agreements.

    North Korea mostly on their own.
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    Adjusting to living in the free world is definitely a significant challenge for most North Korean defectors. I remember reading an interview with one who found it alarming and dangerous that South Korean newspapers criticized the president of the South. The idea of openly criticizing leaders was so foreign to him, he could hardly believe it was allowed. But despite the challenges they face, but the vast majority of refugees are happy they fled the Hermite Kingdom. Here's an interesting short video I found with some interviews with North Korean refugees:

    http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/n...er-north-korea
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  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by RonRules View Post
    I highly recommend this documentary. It explains how difficult it is to come out of the county. Not only that, who ever defects knows their family will be in a concentration camp for the rest of their lives:

    60 minutes had a piece not long ago about when someone committs a crime against the regime; they not only jail the person who did it but 3 generation of the person's family.
    In 200 years the American people have replaced 1 dictator 3,000 miles away with 3,000 dictators 1 mile away.


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