california prop discussion

[KerriAnn]

Wanted to post a thread to hopefully start some conversation about the props on the ballot for november. I haven't had a lot of time to research what's going to be on the ballot yet, but i have looked at two so far:

Prop 32, which I plan on voting no, unless someone can convince me otherwise.

http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.ph...tiative_(2012)

Like I said, I haven't looked into much of it yet, but it seems like another state statute that has exemptions for large corporations to give them an advantage over other smaller corporations.


Prop 34, which I think I will vote yes...

http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.ph...tiative_(2012)

I'm all for repealing the death penalty!


Here's a link to the rest of California's ballot measures coming up in November:

http://www.ballotpedia.org/wiki/inde...t_propositions

Comments?

[KerriAnn]

Prop 37: Mandatory labeling of GMOs

http://www.ballotpedia.org/wiki/inde...ed_Food_(2012)

Monsanto is the biggest "no" donor. Not surprised. I will vote yes, just because of that.

And this is interesting-

"Other opponents include:

The California Republican Party."

[dannno]

I'm in CA and I'm pretty torn on some of these myself.

Prop 32 won't really affect corporations because that isn't how they give money to political candidates. It was written by one of the Kochs in order to stop the tide of money coming in from unions. If it does hurt the ability of small businesses to donate, I'd like to know more. It would be a HUGE blow to the ability of Democrats to raise money for political races around the state, though.

Philosophically, there is nothing stopping the individuals in those unions from donating to those same politicians or political organizations on their own, so I'm not sure if I have a big problem with it. Some people are forced to join unions, and even though apparently you can jump through some hoops to have the portion of your union dues that go towards that sort of stuff exempted, money is fungible and you are still forced to support an organization that is fueling differing political beliefs.

I have a thread on that prop here:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...unded-by-Kochs


Prop 34

I want to repeal the death penalty, but I don't want to increase police department funding by $100 million even if it is "for rape and murder" because again... money is fungible. They are supposed to be solving rape and murder cases with the money we already give them and on top of that they do a lot more that they shouldn't be doing. If you give them more money to do what they are supposed to be doing already, that gives them the money they already have to do more of what they shouldn't be doing like arresting people for growing cannabis with or without a medicinal license.

Undecided.


Prop 37

This is an extremely anti-liberty proposition, but we live in an extremely anti-liberty country, so lets see if things balance out. We subsidize GMO with our tax dollars and so it's in the vast majority of our food supply, not to mention our food's food supply (most cows eat GMO food).

People don't have a fair choice between GMO and non-GMO foods because the GMO foods are so much cheaper due to the subsidies.. So most people choose the food that is more affordable not knowing whether it contains GMO ingredients.

Theoretically I could have no problem with this bill, but I need to know a little more. Let's say I want to start making and selling my own baba ghanoush. I need a licensed food kitchen. Check. I need to put the required nutritional information on there. Check. I need to put on there that it is non-GMO. Ok. Now how much does the certification cost me? If it costs very little, then great.. but if it costs a lot then this is going to favor bigger food businesses who can afford the non-GMO certification.

I need to know more.

[sailingaway]

I don't know about prop 32. Like you I was going to vote no on it, first, because that is my default vote on propositions, second, because I understand it cherry picks to whom it applies and with the Kochs involved, that is quite possibly more than just targeting unions. As a general rule I don't think govt should handle this except through the appropriations process. No one with a govt contract above $X can lobby, that sort of thing. Otherwise there are 1st amendment concerns and I think we have to be really careful. Public unions I can see targeting because the taxpayers are paying for the manipulation of the taxpayers. Otherwise, the Kochs are corporatist and I don't like them writing legislation any more than I like our state legislators writing legislation.

But I'm still not really sure on that one.

[dannno]

^32

[sailingaway]

^32

yeah, I edited it.

[tsai3904]

Prop 32 is simple. It prevents unions and corporations from automatically deducting union dues from members' paychecks.

I don't know of any corporations that do this so this is really just targeted at unions.

If you don't believe public sector unions should automatically deduct union dues from their members, vote yes on Prop 32.

This doesn't ban unions or corporations from getting involved in politics. This bans AUTOMATIC payroll deductions. If people want to voluntarily give to their unions, they still can.

This seems like a no brainer to me to vote yes on Prop 32.

Here are the top 10 contributions to No on 32:

CA Teachers Assn	$16,452,509
SEIU	$6,788,969
CA Prof Firefighters	$2,601,580
AFSCME	$1,634,725
CA Labor Federation	$1,372,431
Peace Officers Assn	$1,276,846
CA School Employees Assn	$1,050,000
CA Faculty Assn	$1,027,471
CA Federal of Teachers	$800,000
Intl Assn of Firefighters	$500,000

[dannno]

bump

[KerriAnn]

Prop 32 is simple. It prevents unions and corporations from automatically deducting union dues from members' paychecks.

I don't know of any corporations that do this so this is really just targeted at unions.

If you don't believe public sector unions should automatically deduct union dues from their members, vote yes on Prop 32.

This doesn't ban unions or corporations from getting involved in politics. This bans AUTOMATIC payroll deductions. If people want to voluntarily give to their unions, they still can.

This seems like a no brainer to me to vote yes on Prop 32.

My husband is a union worker, and he currently has his dues taken out of his paychecks. It wasn't always like that. I can remember when the dues weren't automatically deducted, and if he forgot to pay his stupid dues, he would have been in big trouble (contract!).

I don't see how changing the process in which dues are collected would benefit the worker.

Not trying to argue with you, just trying to see this clearly.

EDIT: I am reading the bill, and I don't think it's about what you think it's about... Isn't it about Unions using thier members dues to contribute to politics?

Here's an excerpt from the "no" camp:

"Business Super PACs and independent expenditure committees are exempt from Prop. 32’s controls. These organizations work to elect or defeat candidates and ballot measures but aren’t subject to the same contribution restrictions and transparency requirements for campaigns themselves. A recent Supreme Court decision allows these groups to spend unlimited amounts of money. Prop. 32 does nothing to deal with that. If Prop. 32 passes, Super PACs, including committees backed by corporate special interests, will become the major way campaigns are funded. These groups have already spent more than $95,000,000 in California elections since 2004. Our televisions will be flooded with even more negative advertisements."

[KerriAnn]

WOW! and just when i thought prop 37, the GMO labeling initiative, was a good thing, i read this:

"Exempt from this requirement: made from animals fed or injected with genetically engineered material but not genetically engineered themselves"

That's bullshit!