A conversation about 9/11 between myself and a friend of mine on Facebook.
Windsor Tower in Madrid, Spain burned for 20+ hours and never collapsed.
No steel frame structure has ever collapsed due to fire, before or after 9/11. On 9/11, 3 collapsed, due to "structural failure from fires".
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My friend: And the integrity of the buildings was compromised by the impact of a plane.
Me: The only parts of the plane that could have damaged the building significantly were the titanium engines. However, the planes did not sever the central support beams on every floor, which is the only thing that can allow a building to fall at freefall speeds. Building 9 was never hit with a plane and had a design similar to the Windsor building, and was actually reinforced. It was never struck with debris from the first two towers. Reporters were saying that it collapsed 10 minutes before it came down. Fire personnel were recorded saying that they were going to bring the building down. The one guy that witnessed the explosions inside building 9 and was willing to testify died of a heart attack.
Her: Dumb.
Me: I see I have won the argument.
Her: Hahah, have you? You really, REALLY think the gov't planned on killing 3,000 Americans? If you HONESTLY believed that, why the fuck are you still living in America? Better get out before they get you next, right?
Me: There are several problems with your side of the argument. First, you refute nothing I have said. Second, you attribute things to me which I have not said. Third, an ad hominem attack is the same as conceding the argument to the other person. Fourth, your application of the "love it or leave it" response is flawed at its most basic level. You are implying that loving my country is the same as loving and trusting the actions of my government, when it is totally unrelated. You somehow believe that it is unpatriotic to mistrust and challenge the actions of one's own government. It was our founding fathers that believed that that act of mistrust was the single most patriotic thing you could do. "Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."
Thomas Jefferson
A couple of minutes later, she deleted her comments.
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Originally Posted by ninepointfive
