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Thread: Curiosity just landed!

  1. #1

    Default Curiosity just landed!

    Last edited by tangent4ronpaul; 08-06-2012 at 12:45 AM.
    Public education is not education ... it is schooling.
    Our military is not defense ... it is warmongering and empire building.
    Government police do not protect ... they control.
    Regulations do not regulate ... they protect the status quo.
    Government banks do not distribute money based on effort ... it is gifted to close friends ... and some of it trickles down.

    The result is war, poverty, fear, chaos, and hopelessness for most people with abundance for a few elite.
    -Travlyr



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  3. #2

    Default

    cheer for another waste of taxpayer money! A speaker even added "it only cost $7 per citizen" "my boss Barack Obama" "I can only think of what Teddy Roosevelt said"....smh

  4. #3

    Default

    Caption this image:



    It's the first image from curiosity.

    -t
    Public education is not education ... it is schooling.
    Our military is not defense ... it is warmongering and empire building.
    Government police do not protect ... they control.
    Regulations do not regulate ... they protect the status quo.
    Government banks do not distribute money based on effort ... it is gifted to close friends ... and some of it trickles down.

    The result is war, poverty, fear, chaos, and hopelessness for most people with abundance for a few elite.
    -Travlyr

  5. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickels View Post
    cheer for another waste of taxpayer money! A speaker even added "it only cost $7 per citizen"
    So "only" around 2.1 billion? Worth it.

  6. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickels View Post
    cheer for another waste of taxpayer money! A speaker even added "it only cost $7 per citizen" "my boss Barack Obama" "I can only think of what Teddy Roosevelt said"....smh
    If you think that this was a waste of taxpayer money then I simply have no words for you.

  7. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RonPaulFanInGA View Post
    So "only" around 2.1 billion? Worth it.
    yep. ONLY. Next time somebody says the national debt works out to be however many tens of thousands per citizens, remember that this ONLY cost $7.

  8. #7

    Default

    Caption me!



    Ouch! - I don't believe I hit the planet that hard...

    Uh, high there really big, scary, praying mantis looking thing. I really am sorry about waking you up... I'll just be on my way now... <gulp>

    WOW! there really is life on this rock!

    Whoo Hoooo! - 7 minutes of terror! - I wanna go again!

    Hay - do you know where I can find Alvin?

    -t
    Last edited by tangent4ronpaul; 08-06-2012 at 01:00 AM.
    Public education is not education ... it is schooling.
    Our military is not defense ... it is warmongering and empire building.
    Government police do not protect ... they control.
    Regulations do not regulate ... they protect the status quo.
    Government banks do not distribute money based on effort ... it is gifted to close friends ... and some of it trickles down.

    The result is war, poverty, fear, chaos, and hopelessness for most people with abundance for a few elite.
    -Travlyr

  9. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RonPaulFanInGA View Post
    So "only" around 2.1 billion? Worth it.
    A Gerald R. Ford class Aircraft carrier costs 14 Billion, including R&D. 9 Billion after R&D Mittens wants to build a couple more of um.

    I'd call 2.1 Billion a bargain and would much rather put science packages on other planets then build more warships.

    -t
    Public education is not education ... it is schooling.
    Our military is not defense ... it is warmongering and empire building.
    Government police do not protect ... they control.
    Regulations do not regulate ... they protect the status quo.
    Government banks do not distribute money based on effort ... it is gifted to close friends ... and some of it trickles down.

    The result is war, poverty, fear, chaos, and hopelessness for most people with abundance for a few elite.
    -Travlyr

  10. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tangent4ronpaul View Post
    A Gerald R. Ford class Aircraft carrier costs 14 Billion, including R&D. 9 Billion after R&D Mittens wants to build a couple more of um.

    I'd call 2.1 Billion a bargain and would much rather put science packages on other planets then build more warships.

    -t
    maybe so but government has no business getting involved with this at all
    “If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”

    - SAMUEL ADAMS

  11. #10
    Member John F Kennedy III's Avatar
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    In what ways did this benefit us?
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
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  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by John F Kennedy III View Post
    In what ways did this benefit us?
    We've had this discussion before, but for 2 examples:
    computer development was massively accelerated. We could currently be using the same level of technology as we did around 1980 or earlier and the idea of personal computers and civilian access to the internet, let alone the WWW would be just a dream in someones head - not to be achieved for several decades. IE we wouldn't be talking now if it were not for NASA. We wouldn't have cell phones either and we'd still be developing 35mm film.

    NASA is also responsible for giving us CAT scans.

    -t
    Public education is not education ... it is schooling.
    Our military is not defense ... it is warmongering and empire building.
    Government police do not protect ... they control.
    Regulations do not regulate ... they protect the status quo.
    Government banks do not distribute money based on effort ... it is gifted to close friends ... and some of it trickles down.

    The result is war, poverty, fear, chaos, and hopelessness for most people with abundance for a few elite.
    -Travlyr

  13. #12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by John F Kennedy III View Post
    In what ways did this benefit us?
    We now have a increased ability to survey mars in ways we have not before. Allowing us to gather data on OTHER PLANETS that could very easily help our own. Not to mention we move ever closer to not having the entire human species being wiped out in one fail swoop. Lots of other "benefits" exist but I believe some have already touched on them.

    But of course that is not what you meant. You meant how does this help us here and now and why should you care or fund it. Well it does not immediately help us this second but programs like this are important not just for the United States but the species as a whole. Now I understand some peoples reservations about funding NASA and I don't hold that against them but to suggest this does not benefit us is short sited. We are EXPLORING, it does not always work but it is an endeavor the ENTIRE human race should be behind.

    This is not even close to any other discussion we could possibly have on this earth about what to fund and what not to. Maybe people need to step back now and days and realize what we as a species have accomplished in less than a century. Maybe just maybe this might not even be about how can this benefit us and maybe just maybe this is about the central driving force the entire species has to explore and discover things about ourselves and the universe we live in. You can have any argument you want about any other thing that is taxpayer funded about being not good for us or gives us no real benefit but this is the absolute only thing that, that argument can not be made about.

    That being said if that is not what you meant then ignore what I said since it would not be applying to you .

    It is sad that most Americans had no clue this was happening today (yesterday). When something like landing something with damn near pinpoint accuracy on an object that is moving and is at an unimaginable distance becomes something not to get exited about then I think this country needs to step back from eating chick fillet thinking that's some sort of thing to brag about and really think about what they are really putting priorities on.

    I guarentee that this will get less "news" time than just one days coverage of the Chick Fillet crap.
    Last edited by Ranger29860; 08-06-2012 at 02:31 AM.

  14. #13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickels View Post
    yep. ONLY. Next time somebody says the national debt works out to be however many tens of thousands per citizens, remember that this ONLY cost $7.
    LOL wait were you being sarcastic about the cost not being worth it? If so it went RIGHT over my head.

  15. #14

    Default

    $2.3 Billion could have put people on Mars in private hands...

    Soon it will, when we figure out the financing. Nearly there.
    Last edited by idiom; 08-06-2012 at 02:52 AM.
    Stop the Looting and Start Prosecuting! Gold plated Tungsten IS Money!
    We Must Dissent A colher não existe.
    A government is just a body of people, notably, usually, ungoverned.

    "You mean this entire war started because The Empire dressed as the enemy? That's exactly what happened in the last major war! Our government is so stupid!"

  16. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by idiom View Post
    $2.3 Billion could have put people on Mars in private hands...
    I doubt it. Actually spending 2.3 billion to gather more data than ever before about Mars might actually be worth something, not worth 2.3 billion, but worth something nevertheless. So no matter what this won't be a complete loss like the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have been.

  17. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by idiom View Post
    $2.3 Billion could have put people on Mars in private hands...



    So why has it not been done before?

  18. #17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger29860 View Post


    So why has it not been done before?
    Zero return for one. Which means you either need to figure out how to get the return, or have $2.3 Billion to throw away. And that is what a Non-American company could do it for. American companies end up at around $5 Billion to do it.

    But it will happen shortly. We now have two private space stations and several private manned launchers coming online. The people behind these ventures have the will to throw a lot of cash at going to Mars for the hell of it, but not quite all the cash just yet. But it is happening.

    Quickest way to do it would be to post a $4 Billion prize for the first group to land and a $1 Billion prize for the second and that would resolve the financing problems.
    Last edited by idiom; 08-06-2012 at 02:57 AM.
    Stop the Looting and Start Prosecuting! Gold plated Tungsten IS Money!
    We Must Dissent A colher não existe.
    A government is just a body of people, notably, usually, ungoverned.

    "You mean this entire war started because The Empire dressed as the enemy? That's exactly what happened in the last major war! Our government is so stupid!"

  19. #18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by idiom View Post
    $2.3 Billion could have put people on Mars in private hands...

    Soon it will, when we figure out the financing. Nearly there.
    The folks that won the X-Prize were rewarded with 10 Million. It cost them 100 Million to develop and launch a ship twice that briefly entered low earth orbit and couldn't even escape earths gravity.

    I don't think private enterprise is up to sending anything to Mars anytime soon - especially not for 2.3 Billion.

    -t
    Last edited by tangent4ronpaul; 08-06-2012 at 03:02 AM.
    Public education is not education ... it is schooling.
    Our military is not defense ... it is warmongering and empire building.
    Government police do not protect ... they control.
    Regulations do not regulate ... they protect the status quo.
    Government banks do not distribute money based on effort ... it is gifted to close friends ... and some of it trickles down.

    The result is war, poverty, fear, chaos, and hopelessness for most people with abundance for a few elite.
    -Travlyr

  20. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger29860 View Post


    So why has it not been done before?
    Uh, because only the government wastes money like that. Private sector knows billions of dollars to examine a space rock with nothing on it isn't a worthwhile investment.

  21. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by idiom View Post
    Zero return for one. Which means you either need to figure out how to get the return, or have $2.3 Billion to throw away. And that is what a Non-American company could do it for. American companies end up at around $5 Billion to do it.

    But it will happen shortly. We now have two private space stations and several private manned launchers coming online. The people behind these ventures have the will to throw a lot of cash at going to Mars for the hell of it, but not quite all the cash just yet. But it is happening.

    Quickest way to do it would be to post a $4 Billion prize for the first group to land and a $1 Billion prize for the second and that would resolve the financing problems.
    Don't get me wrong I hope private entities do this and hell I would donate to them in a heartbeat If I was able to. I just am of the opinion that this was the right way to spend tax money and if anything for what they did and compare it to what other parts of the budget cost I think this could be argued the best bang for the buck we could realistically hope for. 2.3 billion is a drop in the bucket NASA's budget is only roughly .5% of the entire budget. Hell cut back the MIC and give it 1.0% total and imagine what they could do.

  22. #21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RonPaulFanInGA View Post
    Uh, because only the government wastes money like that. Private sector knows billions of dollars to examine a space rock with nothing on it isn't a worthwhile investment.

    lol you can't seriously consider this a waste of money?

  23. #22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger29860 View Post
    lol you can't seriously consider this a waste of money?
    So, what tangible things are the U.S. taxpayers getting for their unapproved "investment" of billions of dollars? Some exciting pictures of Mars' surface? Hope of finding some frozen water? Information about rocks on Mars?

    Sounds productive. I can't imagine why wealthy entrepreneurs aren't falling all over themselves to get a piece of that action.

  24. #23

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RonPaulFanInGA View Post
    So, what tangible things are the U.S. taxpayers getting for their unapproved "investment" of billions of dollars? Some exciting pictures of Mars' surface? Hope of finding some frozen water? Information about rocks on Mars?

    Sounds productive. I can't imagine why wealthy entrepreneurs aren't falling all over themselves to get a piece of that action.
    It obviously isn't worth the risk to private investors or they would have sent their own rovers up already. I think we should all be able to agree on that much, because like it or not it is a fact.

  25. #24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RonPaulFanInGA View Post
    So, what tangible things are the U.S. taxpayers getting for their unapproved "investment" of billions of dollars? Some exciting pictures of Mars' surface? Hope of finding some frozen water? Information about rocks on Mars?

    Sounds productive. I can't imagine why wealthy entrepreneurs aren't falling all over themselves to get a piece of that action.
    I already wrote a pretty good sized post on this earlier in this thread so read that if you want my opinion.

    As for the second part of your post. You bet the SECOND we stumble across something like a enormous precious mineral site on mars on one of these mission private companies would come out of the woodwork trying to capitalize it. There is little to no driving force present to pay for the overhead of the cost of even trying to discover profit making things in space at the moment. As technology advance I am sure that companies would be going out on their own to find these things just because overhead would be less. But why hold ourselves down as a species in the meantime?

    Also something being productive does not always mean that it is a profit generating endeavor.

  26. #25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RonPaulFanInGA View Post
    So, what tangible things are the U.S. taxpayers getting for their unapproved "investment" of billions of dollars? Some exciting pictures of Mars' surface? Hope of finding some frozen water? Information about rocks on Mars?

    Sounds productive. I can't imagine why wealthy entrepreneurs aren't falling all over themselves to get a piece of that action.
    I can't help myself I have to keep going lol.

    You would be surprised what useless information we pull out of rocks. Why do you think we have scientist all over the world still exploring rocks here on earth? Both in a environmental way and in a money making way? What happens if we drill into a rock on mars and all of a sudden we discover a new element? What if we discover a new type of ore? One that would not have occurred on earth and would allow us to do things we could not imagine? What happens if we take a picture and catch life? Or drill into a rock and detect organic fossils?

    For frozen water the same applies. If it was not worth anything scientifically then why the hell are we drilling ice cores? What if we find froze micro organism?

    Not productive my ass.

  27. #26

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tangent4ronpaul View Post
    The folks that won the X-Prize were rewarded with 10 Million. It cost them 100 Million to develop and launch a ship twice that briefly entered low earth orbit and couldn't even escape earths gravity.

    I don't think private enterprise is up to sending anything to Mars anytime soon - especially not for 2.3 Billion.

    -t
    It cost them $30 Million to get to the X-Prize marker of 2 Flights above 100km. The X-15 cost $1.5 Billion in adjusted dollars and also achieved two flights above 100km.

    The Rest of the money spent by Virgin Galactic since has gone into a second generation craft and an orbital launch platform. The will have developed six aircraft and an orbital launch vehicle from scratch for under $300 Million.
    Stop the Looting and Start Prosecuting! Gold plated Tungsten IS Money!
    We Must Dissent A colher não existe.
    A government is just a body of people, notably, usually, ungoverned.

    "You mean this entire war started because The Empire dressed as the enemy? That's exactly what happened in the last major war! Our government is so stupid!"

  28. #27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by idiom View Post
    It cost them $30 Million to get to the X-Prize marker of 2 Flights above 100km. The X-15 cost $1.5 Billion in adjusted dollars and also achieved two flights above 100km.

    The Rest of the money spent by Virgin Galactic since has gone into a second generation craft and an orbital launch platform. The will have developed six aircraft and an orbital launch vehicle from scratch for under $300 Million.
    I like Virgin's space program don't get me wrong. But the price may have been slightly cheaper due to certain space technology having been developed by NASA

  29. #28

    Default

    I think the scientific spend in basic science is justified. I think it could be a lot more effective if it wasn't tied to the MIC for historical reasons.

    Most of the tech for going to Mars has likewise long since been developed by Nasa. That is why private estimates of a Mission are so low.

    The $5 Billion Mars Mission design was examined by Nasa and found to be workable. It was adopted as the new standard mission plan, although Nasa's version cost $30 Billion. Alterations to it have since grown the price of Nasa's baseline mission to $100 Billion mostly due to requirements to use military rockets and somehow, lower tolerance to mission risk than a private mission could sustain.
    Last edited by idiom; 08-06-2012 at 03:55 AM.
    Stop the Looting and Start Prosecuting! Gold plated Tungsten IS Money!
    We Must Dissent A colher não existe.
    A government is just a body of people, notably, usually, ungoverned.

    "You mean this entire war started because The Empire dressed as the enemy? That's exactly what happened in the last major war! Our government is so stupid!"

  30. #29

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by idiom View Post
    It cost them $30 Million to get to the X-Prize marker of 2 Flights above 100km. The X-15 cost $1.5 Billion in adjusted dollars and also achieved two flights above 100km.

    The Rest of the money spent by Virgin Galactic since has gone into a second generation craft and an orbital launch platform. The will have developed six aircraft and an orbital launch vehicle from scratch for under $300 Million.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ansari_X_Prize

    The Ansari X Prize was a space competition in which the X Prize Foundation offered a US$10,000,000 prize for the first non-government organization to launch a reusable manned spacecraft into space twice within two weeks. It was modeled after early 20th-century aviation prizes, and aimed to spur development of low-cost spaceflight.

    Created in May 1996 and initially called just the "X Prize", it was renamed the "Ansari X Prize" on May 6, 2004 following a multi-million dollar donation from entrepreneurs Anousheh Ansari and Amir Ansari.

    The prize was won on October 4, 2004, the 47th anniversary of the Sputnik 1 launch, by the Tier One project designed by Burt Rutan and financed by Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen, using the experimental spaceplane SpaceShipOne. $10 million was awarded to the winner, but more than $100 million was invested in new technologies in pursuit of the prize.

    -t
    Public education is not education ... it is schooling.
    Our military is not defense ... it is warmongering and empire building.
    Government police do not protect ... they control.
    Regulations do not regulate ... they protect the status quo.
    Government banks do not distribute money based on effort ... it is gifted to close friends ... and some of it trickles down.

    The result is war, poverty, fear, chaos, and hopelessness for most people with abundance for a few elite.
    -Travlyr

  31. #30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tangent4ronpaul View Post
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ansari_X_Prize

    The Ansari X Prize was a space competition in which the X Prize Foundation offered a US$10,000,000 prize for the first non-government organization to launch a reusable manned spacecraft into space twice within two weeks. It was modeled after early 20th-century aviation prizes, and aimed to spur development of low-cost spaceflight.

    Created in May 1996 and initially called just the "X Prize", it was renamed the "Ansari X Prize" on May 6, 2004 following a multi-million dollar donation from entrepreneurs Anousheh Ansari and Amir Ansari.

    The prize was won on October 4, 2004, the 47th anniversary of the Sputnik 1 launch, by the Tier One project designed by Burt Rutan and financed by Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen, using the experimental spaceplane SpaceShipOne. $10 million was awarded to the winner, but more than $100 million was invested in new technologies in pursuit of the prize.

    -t
    There were more than a dozen teams. Several of them continue. The investment was not all made by one company in one project. The marginal cost of the Spaceshipone flights was $300,000 by the fourth flight.

    Competitors have marginal costs one third of that.

    That is the benefit of the prizes is that a number of companies through their resources at a project without the government picking a single winning technology to get all the funding.

    If the government posted a $100 Million prize similar for Mars data they would not have to spend a dime until the mission was successful and they wouldn't have to overpay. Second and Third place prizes mellow the risk, and lead to multiple systems being developed to completion.
    Last edited by idiom; 08-06-2012 at 04:18 AM.
    Stop the Looting and Start Prosecuting! Gold plated Tungsten IS Money!
    We Must Dissent A colher não existe.
    A government is just a body of people, notably, usually, ungoverned.

    "You mean this entire war started because The Empire dressed as the enemy? That's exactly what happened in the last major war! Our government is so stupid!"

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