Iceland's economy is "growing" the same way ours is. Central planners moving money around to hide their inflation. The people are happy that their mortgages are gone, but when the cost of food approaches their old mortgage payments they won't be so happy anymore.
I was trying to convey a sense of sarcasm.Originally Posted by torchbearer
i'm making a list.
rewritten history with armies of their crooks - invented memories, did burn all the books... Mark Knopfler
Your local bank did not steal from the homeowner. The homeowner sought them out for a loan and willingly signed a contract. The deal was struck and because of the loan they had received, they chose to buy a house.
Your local bank did not cause the housing boom and bust cycle.
Borrowers should honor their contracts. There is no free lunch, even if people want it REALLY badly.
There ya go.
Don't you imagine that is why they don't want an audit of the FED.
all the suspects would be known.
rewritten history with armies of their crooks - invented memories, did burn all the books... Mark Knopfler
Yup and boy would that be a glorious day.
You ask a great question at a time when there really isn't any media corporations representing you. So, save the question for now and picket the police instead and then the media corporations second. Picketing the police stations reestablishes our right to peacefully assemble; meanwhile, picketing the media corporations reestablishes our right to freedom of the press.
Are you serious?
It would be easier to ask what laws they didn't break!
Counterfeiting money is a federal crime. The Federal Reserve has counterfeited at least a hundred trillion dollars since 1913.
Refusing to pay back the interest owed to the Fed would be a start (like what Paul proposed).
Last edited by NIU Students for Liberty; 07-31-2012 at 09:39 PM.
Well that is why we have tyranny right now in the USA.
It isn't legal according to the Constitution so they can still be arrested by those upholding the Constitution.
Article One of the United States Constitution, Section 8: Powers of Congress:
To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current coin of the United States;
How have you helped spread the message of Liberty, Peace, & Prosperity today?
"Liberty, when it begins to take root, is a plant of rapid growth." -George Washington
Yes indeed, and all this really does is reward bad choices by giving away free houses to people who couldn't afford them, while people who knew they couldn't afford one get no free houses because they had been renting. It would create a new upper class of people with free houses, living the high life off the banks and the people who didn't tank out loans, while the renters would carry an additional burden and their rent may even raise to compensate for the poor housing market that would result and the subsequent rush to renting due to housing prices being unstable that would happen due to all the people that weren't handed a free house by the government. I am certainly not saying that even more people than proposed should get free houses. I am proposing no free houses, you get something if you buy it.
And why not. Haven't they been the ones doing all the stiffing? Hell, they have stiffed my unborn great grandchildren. America aught to be getting really sore by now with all the stiffing it's been getting.
"The Patriarch"
It sure sounds that way. I pray for Icelanders, they may not know the monster they have enraged against them. The next "false flag" event could very well be in Iceland.
Of course there is no free lunch, but no one in their right mind is going to turn down super low interest rates even below inflation and 60 year mortgages to buy a house. Nope, smart thinking people will jump on that. The banks knew they would, they knew the situation it would produce, they knew they would never recover their money created out of think air and didn't care, they wanted their land and assets on their balance sheets.
It sounded like a pretty bad deal to me, taking on such a large loan without putting much down. It looks like a huge market risk to me. And the rates were not fixed, and that was known. It seems like a bad choice to me so I didn't go forward with that.
Last edited by Yieu; 07-31-2012 at 09:55 PM.
It's been quoted many times but bears repeating.
"Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws."- Mayer Amschel Rothschild, International Banker
What would you lose even if you lost it all later after the bust? Just what you put into it, that's all. The less you put down and the less your monthly payments were the less you lost. For those people it wasn't that bad of a deal even with the bust. They got a house to live in for the monthly price of an apartment and only lost whatever their down payment was.
The Federal Reserve and the elite are the ones who have been getting the free lunch. Not the everyday working folks in America trying to just survive one day at a time. The bankers got a debt reset to the tune of trillions while the people who work for a living did not. Do you understand now why bankers should be arrested and prosecuted for their crimes?
+ trillion
Yes, we need to start over again. New currency, new representatives, new judges, new media, to name just a few. We need a total reset the sooner the better.
Moral Hazard. Malinvestment.
The banks didn't care if the homeowners paid them back, they had guarantees from Fannie/Freddie, Treasury, Congress, The Fed, and President.
Perhaps the best speech on the housing bubble if you haven't seen it:
How have you helped spread the message of Liberty, Peace, & Prosperity today?
"Liberty, when it begins to take root, is a plant of rapid growth." -George Washington
No, it also damages your credit history and ability to get more loans. I do not want to be on the hook for something that I know I cannot pay for. That would be irresponsible of me. What would be the point of buying a house with the intention of letting it get foreclosed due to knowing there might be problems paying if the rate goes up or there are other issues? If you already know that information, then it makes more sense to rent a house if you want a house over an apartment, that way you do not have the liability of the loan. Unless the whole point was to buy a house you can't afford in hopes that the government will give it to you for free?
So you think only those Americans who happened to chose to have a mortgage are worthy of bailing out to give free houses away to?
Why do you think even those who have mortgages are "worthy" of me bailing out for you while I continue to rough it out?
I don't want to be cut a break, and my back is not a place for the government to cut a break for you on.
What are you talking about? No one is getting free houses. No one took out a mortgage thinking, gee, maybe they will let me have it for free if there is a bust. Please, that rhetoric is ridiculous.
Most, if not all, who took out mortgages before the bust only saw the benefit, not the downside. The benefits were low interest, low monthly payments, and the biggest benefit of them all, rising house prices! Many people who got a house then saw it as a solid investment. Of course they were wrong, very wrong, but they were misled by the talking heads and so-called experts. The banks knew the situation quite well. They knew they were creating an artificial housing boom with their loans and kept doing it anyway. They did not care, they wanted the bust to occur to lower everyones property value so they could eventually step in a buy large tracts of land for pennies on the dollar. It was all planned out from the start to occur exactly the way it has been occurring.
The majority of Americans having too much debt affects ALL Americans, including the debt free Americans. If you bought a house before the bust and paid for it without a loan then you have lost quite a significant amount of capital. There is a good reason there is so much debt today, it is primarily caused by there not being enough jobs that pay a living wage left in America. Outsourcing, insourcing, and shipping whole plants overseas has killed the American economy. No one, except the bankers, is getting anything for free.
Last edited by RickyJ; 08-01-2012 at 12:49 AM.
Some here have proposed having the government eliminate all mortgage debt, which means proposing having the government give mortgate holders free houses. They don't care that this would negatively impact the economy and put further strain on the non-mortgage holders that still have to pay. That is what I am talking about. There is no reason this random section of the population should be given free houses over any other section of the population.
Is it well known that asking for the elimination of mortgage debt is asking for free houses specifically for mortgage holders? This is section 8 housing specifically for mortgage holders. What reason would there be to give free houses to that subsection of the population, in particular? Why not just claim you can print everything from thin air and give everyone mansions? The point is, being a mortgage holder is an arbitrary reason for the government grant you a house over. The housing market would raise prices to try to compensate for the massive loss, and those who are currently not mortgage holders would have a much tougher time ever going from renting to owning due to the government giveaway. A government mortgage debt relief program is the same as a government free housing program.
Rising housing prices indicated instability to me, which was a big factor in why I chose not to buy a mortgage. It's not buying a house, it's buying a mortgage. The bank owns the house, so until you have purchased it from the bank you do not have a claim of ownership.
Yes, I have seen that, and that is a problem that should be prevented, and the plan has not executed yet so there is time for things to not go that badly.
Last edited by Yieu; 08-01-2012 at 12:36 AM.
How many here actually clicked through and read the articles at the link? I suspect not many or this would be a different thread.
Iceland did not forgive home loan debt, just anything above 110% when the home was underwater. They still had to pay off the home.
Toward the bottom of that web page they discuss what happened to banking in Iceland. I believe it was 2002 when 85% of the banks were privatized and this resulted in economic growth. They pushed easy electronic banking and low interest rates, so attracted international business. They also took on huge loans from big European banks (Britten/Holland) and the the IMF. This all ties back to the FED as a main source of money. So we had the international monetary crisis and they got dragged down by it and the country declared bankruptcy. Iceland then decided to tax their citizens to pay off this huge debt. The citizens revolted, and threw out the government. It was largely peaceful, some rock throwing and such. They elected a new government who selected people to rewrite their constitution and, did the home debt forgiveness and then nationalized the banks. The citizens put to a vote whether to repay the British and Dutch banks and 96% said no. International pressures threatened to freeze the accounts of Icelandic citizens held in their banks, a IMF loan to Iceland was frozen and threats were made to embargo the country - making it the Cuba of the north...
What happened then? Well, from the first video on the page: The economy tanked. Going down 6.8% or something the first year. The next year it went up 2.6%, the next year it went up 2.6% and it's still going up today. This country broke with the International banking community and is prospering.
In case anyone is thinking about it: Icelandic is one of the hardest languages to learn. The weather cold, land barren. The women are hot! Alcoholism is common. Don't know about job prospects, immigration, getting citizenship, gun rights, cost of living or any of that. Never looked into it. But it is starting to look like one of the freest countries in the world.
I've seen a lot of ignorant comments in this thread about banks and the FED. Banks do not like to make loans to people that do not look like good risks to pay them back. The housing crisis was created because Congress passed the "Community Reinvestment and Development Act". This forced banks to give loans to people they deemed high risk for default. To what extent the CRDA (or is that CDRA?) was a liberal agenda and to what extent did some big banking interests lobby for it is a different question. But no, your local bank does not want to re-possess your home, car or whatever. They like people that pay off their loans.
As to the FED - how are you going to starve it? seriously??? Your bank deals with the FED, not you. It loans them money at low interest rates and your bank charges higher interest rates and is allowed to "create money out of thin air" for every dollar it has deposited. It loans something like 8$ for every one in it's accounts, because they expect the loaned money to be paid back with interest. Besides, even if you could "stave it" - they loan money to banks and very low interest rates and create that money from "thin air". ie: they print it. So they don't get their measly interest back - they would just print more money and you would end up paying for it anyway through inflation - the other tax! $20 a gallon milk sound good to you? Your cost of living increase has not and won't keep up - if you can find a job, that is...
-t
Then why are you paying for theirs?
1776 > 1984
The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.
The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide
Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled
Totally against the Iceland model.
It will not work out in the end. Forgiving debt only encourages more people to take on more stupid debt. Instead, people who can't pay need to go bankrupt. You aren't entitled to $#@! and have such paid for by others. Very bad model.
Also, why brag about a 2% growth and out growing the Euro area? Socialism is collapsing all around Iceland due to massive debt loads so in essence it's not hard to outgrow the rest of Europe.
Besides, Iceland's GDP is a whopping $15 billion. Apple alone makes more money than that. So there really isn't much to brag about.
Last edited by Liberty74; 08-01-2012 at 06:21 AM.
If Rand does not win the Republican nomination, he should buck the controlled two party system and run as an Independent for President in 2016 and give Americans a real option to vote for.
We are all born libertarians then something goes really wrong. Despite this truth, most people are still libertarians yet not know it.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Connect With Us