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Thread: Uruguay government to sell marijuana to citizens

  1. #1

    Default Uruguay government to sell marijuana to citizens

    http://news.yahoo.com/uruguay-plan-l...003256359.html

    MONTEVIDEO, Uruguay (AP) — Uruguay's national government said Wednesday it hopes to fight a growing crime problem by selling marijuana to citizens registered to buy it, and will send a bill to Congress that would make it the first country in the world to do so.

    Under the plan, only the government would be allowed to sell marijuana and only to adults who register on a government database, letting officials keep track of their purchases over time.





    I guess now we can see if this idea of legalizing will work or not.
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  3. #2

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    I thought drugs were legal in Portugal? Anyway, the tide is, finally, turning.

  4. #3

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    From article:

    There are no laws against marijuana use in Uruguay. Possession of the drug for personal use has never been criminalized.
    - SUPPORT FREE TRADE, SMUGGLE -

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  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls' Revere View Post
    I guess now we can see if this idea of legalizing will work or not.
    Props for Uruguay taking a bold move like this, but this isn't legalizing. It's social medicalizing. Not really different than having to register for Medical Marijuana in some of the approved States.

    I can possibly see doing that for really hard drugs like heroin, but for peaceful hardly addicting pot?! Hopefully it will be a quick bridge to full legalization (i.e. regulating like wine!).


    FREE THE WEED!!!

  6. #5

    Default Uruguay government plans to nationalize marijuana industry

    Thought this was interesting since mj use is already legal there according to the article.

    http://news.yahoo.com/uruguay-plan-l...003256359.html

    MONTEVIDEO, Uruguay (AP) — Uruguay's national government said Wednesday it hopes to fight a growing crime problem by selling marijuana to citizens registered to buy it, and will send a bill to Congress that would make it the first country in the world to do so.

    Under the plan, only the government would be allowed to sell marijuana and only to adults who register on a government database, letting officials keep track of their purchases over time.
    ....
    Uruguayan newspapers have reported that money from taxes on marijuana sold by the government would go toward rehabilitating drug addicts. The government did not provide details.

    There are no laws against marijuana use in Uruguay. Possession of the drug for personal use has never been criminalized.
    Yep...taxes. The gov't wants to nationalize it for the tax money that they're missing out on the unregulated, but legal, free market. By making it gov't sold only, they'll now have to make it illegal to buy outside of the gov't. They're going BACKWARDS.

    And if you want to judge just how few people actually read articles but still comment on them just look at the comments. Most people didn't even read the sentence that said it's already legal there but are posting like Uruguay just legalized and will be the next Amsterdam. Ugh.
    Last edited by devil21; 06-20-2012 at 11:38 PM.
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  7. #6

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    Looks fishy to me , like gun registration ...

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Thought this was interesting since mj use is already legal there according to the article.

    http://news.yahoo.com/uruguay-plan-l...003256359.html



    Yep...taxes. The gov't wants to nationalize it for the tax money that they're missing out on the unregulated, but legal, free market. By making it gov't sold only, they'll now have to make it illegal to buy outside of the gov't. They're going BACKWARDS.

    And if you want to judge just how few people actually read articles but still comment on them just look at the comments. Most people didn't even read the sentence that said it's already legal there but are posting like Uruguay just legalized and will be the next Amsterdam. Ugh.
    Are they going to outlaw people growing it for themselves? I assume most people would just continue to do that instead of buying it from the government.

  9. #8

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    Good question. Have to see the actual bill text to know for sure.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

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  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by jj- View Post
    I thought drugs were legal in Portugal? Anyway, the tide is, finally, turning.
    They are still illegal in Portugal. Difference there being that if you are found with a small quantity you are not sent to jail but forced to go through a rehab program instead. Larger than "personal use" will still send you to jail.
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post

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  11. #10

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    Looks like Uruguay is about to see a drastic reduction in violent crime.
    if modern agriculture continues to follow the path it's on now, it's finished. The food-growing situation may seem to be in good shape today, but that's just an illusion based on the current availability of petroleum fuels. All the wheat, corn, and other crops that are produced on big American farms may be alive and growing, but they're not products of real nature or real agriculture. They're manufactured rather than grown. The earth isn't producing those things.. petroleum is! -Masanobu Fukuoka

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by BenIsForRon View Post
    Looks like Uruguay is about to see a drastic reduction in violent crime.
    I don't know details of Uruguay, but I do know one thing about South America in general: sometimes they barely follow their own laws. So in many places there isn't a big drug-related crime scene despite the fact that drug production thrives.

  13. #12

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    Definitely far different from legalization, and I don't like the idea of the government selling it one bit. It's one thing if they as a country wish to tax it like we do most things (that's a different debate of course, but far less outrageous than the government getting fat off drugs like the CIA does privately).

    I don't like that at all that their government is not only putting themselves in the dope game, but taking over it completely. That's a far cry from legalization, and far worse than just regulating and taxing it. It makes them a monopoly, rather than leaving it to the free market with competition like it should be.

    It even stands to recreate that same violent black market if the government uses this monopoly to drive up prices with no competition. Then the competition, some of them violent because of the illegal nature, will then choose to undercut it with cheaper more affordable herb on the black market.

    Just stupid...
    Last edited by TheGrinch; 06-21-2012 at 02:49 PM.
    I'd rather be a free man in my grave, than be living as a puppet or a slave - Peter Tosh

    The kids they dance and shake their bones,
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    And it's all too clear we're on our own,
    Singing ashes, ashes, all fall down...

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by jj- View Post
    I don't know details of Uruguay, but I do know one thing about South America in general: sometimes they barely follow their own laws. So in many places there isn't a big drug-related crime scene despite the fact that drug production thrives.
    I would disagree with this on the grounds that a fair amount of their violent crime comes from gangs that formed to sell drugs in America. Pablo Escobar and his ilk. If/When America eventually legalizes drugs, I think there will be a very large drop in crime in Mexico, South and Central America. The 50,000 murders in the Mexican drug war over the last 5 years (since the Mexican government started its "crackdown") are a big example.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by BenIsForRon View Post
    Looks like Uruguay is about to see a drastic reduction in violent crime.
    Adding prohibition laws always add more crime, not less.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

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  16. #15

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    I was trying to find stats to see what happened to crime when Prohibition ended in 1933 but statistics from before then are impossible because they weren't tracked prior to then. In general they seemed to follow economic trends of risising during boom times (the Roaring 20's) and falling during the Great Depression more than any changes in the alcohol laws. I suspect that we would see similarly little impact on crime today if marijuana was legalized. The crime rates have already fallen quite a bit.
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post

    Half the crap I write here is just to entertain myself.
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  17. #16

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    Their government sees a way to make more money and that's all there's to it here.

    A more fair thing to do would be to hand out licences to grow marijuana past a set number of plants.
    Last edited by Victor Grey; 06-21-2012 at 07:18 PM.

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    I was trying to find stats to see what happened to crime when Prohibition ended in 1933 but statistics from before then are impossible because they weren't tracked prior to then. In general they seemed to follow economic trends of risising during boom times (the Roaring 20's) and falling during the Great Depression more than any changes in the alcohol laws. I suspect that we would see similarly little impact on crime today if marijuana was legalized. The crime rates have already fallen quite a bit.
    Cannabis is by far the lower end of drug related crime, if you exclude the simple fact that sales and use are illegal (technically "crime"). The vast majority of violent crime comes from crack and heroin and pills and the like.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

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  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by IDefendThePlatform View Post
    I would disagree with this on the grounds that a fair amount of their violent crime comes from gangs that formed to sell drugs in America. Pablo Escobar and his ilk. If/When America eventually legalizes drugs, I think there will be a very large drop in crime in Mexico, South and Central America. The 50,000 murders in the Mexican drug war over the last 5 years (since the Mexican government started its "crackdown") are a big example.
    gangs to sell drugs
    all of South America are just gangs vs gangs...some wear a flag, some don't, some wear different flags.

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    I was trying to find stats to see what happened to crime when Prohibition ended in 1933 but statistics from before then are impossible because they weren't tracked prior to then. In general they seemed to follow economic trends of risising during boom times (the Roaring 20's) and falling during the Great Depression more than any changes in the alcohol laws. I suspect that we would see similarly little impact on crime today if marijuana was legalized. The crime rates have already fallen quite a bit.
    True, you will not see a drastic reduction in crime for all of the other reasons, but it's a matter of not empowering violent criminals by giving them a black market in which to take money and control. There is little doubt that many gangs and drug cartels would not have the power that they have without the drug trade.

    It's not a matter of curtailing criminals who if bent on doing so can find other means, but to not give them the power of being able to profit and abuse the black market that illegality brings about... Let alone the fact that it's illegal in itself already enables enough violence without recourse, but when you take into account that our policies are providing their bankroll, it's flat out sickening...
    Last edited by TheGrinch; 06-21-2012 at 08:43 PM.
    I'd rather be a free man in my grave, than be living as a puppet or a slave - Peter Tosh

    The kids they dance and shake their bones,
    While the politicians are throwing stones,
    And it's all too clear we're on our own,
    Singing ashes, ashes, all fall down...

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by LibForestPaul View Post
    gangs to sell drugs
    all of South America are just gangs vs gangs...some wear a flag, some don't, some wear different flags.
    I concur, this further empowers government by tax revenue. Legal without the tax issue I can support.
    - SUPPORT FREE TRADE, SMUGGLE -

    2 + 2 = 5.

  22. #21

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    That's the city and country I'm moving to in December...who says there are no free-er countries than America? They also have no income tax on foreign derived income, and since all my income is from poker online, I'll pay no income taxes!

    BTW..I'm against them doing this...it will monopolize the competitive marijuana trade, and thereby not only violate the privacy of users, but also cause prices for the drug increase, quality of the weed to decrease, and accountability of the supplier (the monopolist) to decrease. They would be better off just legalizing it and allowing it like alcohol.

    They'll figure it out over time though.
    Last edited by ProIndividual; 06-21-2012 at 09:53 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xerographica View Post

    Yes, I want to force consumers to buy trampolines, popcorn, environmental protection and national defense whether or not they really demand them. And I definitely want to outlaw all alternatives. Nobody should be allowed to compete with the state. Private security companies, private healthcare, private package delivery, private education, private disaster relief, private militias...should all be outlawed.
    ^Minimalist state socialism (minarchy) taken to its logical conclusions; communism.

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by IDefendThePlatform View Post
    I would disagree with this on the grounds that a fair amount of their violent crime comes from gangs that formed to sell drugs in America. Pablo Escobar and his ilk. If/When America eventually legalizes drugs, I think there will be a very large drop in crime in Mexico, South and Central America. The 50,000 murders in the Mexican drug war over the last 5 years (since the Mexican government started its "crackdown") are a big example.
    Uruguay has comparable crime rates to the United States.

    Why?

    Similar gun rights.
    Last edited by ProIndividual; 06-21-2012 at 09:50 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xerographica View Post

    Yes, I want to force consumers to buy trampolines, popcorn, environmental protection and national defense whether or not they really demand them. And I definitely want to outlaw all alternatives. Nobody should be allowed to compete with the state. Private security companies, private healthcare, private package delivery, private education, private disaster relief, private militias...should all be outlawed.
    ^Minimalist state socialism (minarchy) taken to its logical conclusions; communism.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    They are still illegal in Portugal. Difference there being that if you are found with a small quantity you are not sent to jail but forced to go through a rehab program instead. Larger than "personal use" will still send you to jail.
    Rehab in Uruguay is totally voluntary...you still go to court if caught with too much of a drug (I think it's like 25 grams or something of marijuana), but it's not technically a crime per se, nor is it to grow a certain amount for personal use. If you refuse rehab, you go home. It's just a way to force you into court to be offered rehab.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xerographica View Post

    Yes, I want to force consumers to buy trampolines, popcorn, environmental protection and national defense whether or not they really demand them. And I definitely want to outlaw all alternatives. Nobody should be allowed to compete with the state. Private security companies, private healthcare, private package delivery, private education, private disaster relief, private militias...should all be outlawed.
    ^Minimalist state socialism (minarchy) taken to its logical conclusions; communism.

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Cannabis is by far the lower end of drug related crime, if you exclude the simple fact that sales and use are illegal (technically "crime"). The vast majority of violent crime comes from crack and heroin and pills and the like.
    That depends if you're talking about crimes committed by users in order to obtain and/or who are under the influence of, or if you're talking about violent crimes by organized criminals who traffic in it. The former, yes you're correct, weed is about the most benign of anything. But the latter is a big problem...

    The Feds here estimate that 60% to 70% of the profits of the Mexican drug cartels comes from marijuana. These are the cartels who are murdering thousands near the border. If they were to legalize it in the US, it would seriously undermine the profits of these guys and would reduce the violence immensely because their inventory and their overall business would suddenly be crippled.

    The violent crime associated with marijuana is quite significant, but again, it's not because of the weed, it's entirely because of the prohibition (i.e. the obscene profit incentives created by that prohibition).
    Last edited by WhistlinDave; 06-21-2012 at 10:11 PM.
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  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by ProIndividual View Post
    Uruguay has comparable crime rates to the United States.

    Why?

    Similar gun rights.
    Gun rights are very important to crime rates. But so is ending the drug war. From Jacob Hornbergers blog at the Future of Freedom Foundation:

    And then there are the adverse collateral effects of the drug war. There are the robberies, burglaries, thefts, and muggings by which drug addicts try to get the money to pay the enormous black-market prices for their drugs. There are the gang wars, the murders, the assassinations, and other violence that come with black-market drug-war activity. There are the bribes and payoffs to law-enforcement agents, prosecutors, and judges to get them to look the other way or to provide leniency.

    It would be difficult to come up with a better example of a government disaster than the drug war.

    Of course, some drug-war proponents still hold out hope for one final drug-war program: bring in the military. The idea is that by shipping U.S. troops who have been battle-tested in Iraq and Afghanistan to the U.S.-Mexico border, the war on drugs would finally be won.

    What such drug-war proponents fail to realize is that that program has already been tried and, like all the others, has proven to be a manifest failure.

    Look at Mexico, where the president of that country deployed the Mexican military to the border regions in an attempt to finally win the war on drugs. The result? Some 50,000 dead people in the last six years alone. Gruesome tales of kidnapping, torture, assassination, and murder, along with massive drug-war corruption within the military and other government agencies. The harder the military cracked down, the worse the violence became.

  27. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by WhistlinDave View Post
    That depends if you're talking about crimes committed by users in order to obtain and/or who are under the influence of, or if you're talking about violent crimes by organized criminals who traffic in it. The former, yes you're correct, weed is about the most benign of anything. But the latter is a big problem...
    Brick weed isn't why Mexican cartels are cutting off people's heads on the roadside. If that was the case then there would have been huge drug wars on the border during the 70's. The War on Drugs wasn't truly implemented until the 80's....then the supply vs. demand for any illegal substance shot through the roof and the violence that comes with that erupted.

    Watch a friggin episode of Breaking Bad please.

    (And this is only discussing national drug policy. On a local level there's practically no violence in the cannabis trade. It's a small business like any other, unless you're a big fish.)
    Last edited by devil21; 06-23-2012 at 02:58 AM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

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  28. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by ProIndividual View Post
    Rehab in Uruguay is totally voluntary...you still go to court if caught with too much of a drug (I think it's like 25 grams or something of marijuana), but it's not technically a crime per se, nor is it to grow a certain amount for personal use. If you refuse rehab, you go home. It's just a way to force you into court to be offered rehab.
    Hey Dumbass. If you are going to quote me in your signature at least have the dignity to include my entire quote. Why did you cut 1/2 of my quote out? I mean I know you are a dumbass anarchist, but at least be honest. Rothbard is the one who said it in 'For A New Liberty'. See my signature where I included the entire quote. Honesty is what the liberty movement is about.
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  29. #28

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    To me it looks like the Uruguayan government is becoming a drug cartel.

  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Demigod View Post
    To me it looks like the Uruguayan government is becoming a drug cartel.
    Exactly. And only 3% of the people can understand that.. even when told directly.

  31. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Travlyr View Post
    Hey Dumbass. If you are going to quote me in your signature at least have the dignity to include my entire quote. Why did you cut 1/2 of my quote out? I mean I know you are a dumbass anarchist, but at least be honest. Rothbard is the one who said it in 'For A New Liberty'. See my signature where I included the entire quote. Honesty is what the liberty movement is about.
    Chillax travylr. Take a forum break.

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