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Thread: MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENT: Lawyers for Ron Paul Lawsuit NOTE: Having the lawsuit not up 4 debate

  1. #601
    I. Background
    The gravamen of Plaintiffs’ First Amended Complaint (“FAC”) is that Defendants have engaged in various acts—often too vaguely described to be intelligible—that have disadvantaged Ron Paul in his quest to be nominated as the Republican Party’s candidate for President at the Republican National Convention commencing on August 27, 2012.
    a. Parties
    1 See Final Vote Results For Roll Call 374, http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2006/roll374.xml
    (reflecting vote on July 13, 2006).
    Case 8:12-cv-00927-DOC-JPR Document 35 Filed 08/07/12 Page 2 of 20 Page ID #:474
    The FAC describes the Plaintiffs as: (1) “National Delegates”; (2) “Alternate National Delegates”; and (3) “State Delegates who elected National Delegates.” FAC at 24:4-19. The National and Alternate National Delegates include “Delegates duly elected but having their Certification [sic] withdrawn.” Id. at 24:15.
    The FAC describes the Defendants as: (1) the Republican National Committee (“RNC”);
    (2) RNC’s Chairman, Reince Priebus; (3) “every State Republican Party and party Chairman within the Jurisdiction of the Ninth Circuit”; and (4) “State Republican Party Organizations participating in a Federal Election for the purpose of nominating a candidate for President of the United States and a candidate for Vice President of the United States.” Id. at 24:15.

    b. Allegations
    While the FAC’s allegations are often duplicative and unclear, they appear to be as follows:
    • “Defendants have unlawfully used State Bylaws.” Id. at 27:5-6.
    • “Defendants have refused to Certify [sic] Delegates who were properly elected.” Id. at 27:7-8.
    • “[I]n almost every state in the United States[,] Defendants engaged in a scheme to intimidate and harass Delegates who were supporting a Candidate that Defendants did not approve of. This harassment included the use of violence, intimidating demands that Delegates sign affidavits under penalty of perjury with the threat of criminal prosecution for perjury as well as financial penalties and fines if the Delegate fails to vote as instructed by Defendants.” Id. at 26:21-26.
    • “Defendants have further harassed and intimidated Plaintiffs with untimely Rule changes designed to deny a quorum or to manipulate Delegates supporting a particular Candidate to be deprived of a fair election in furtherance of a scheme to deny Plaintiffs the right to vote their conscience on all ballots.” Id. at 26:27-28, 27:1-2.
    • “Defendants have altered the voting ballot results to fraudulently reflect an outcome that is inconsistent with the actual voting ballot results for the purpose of certifying a fraudulently selected slate of Delegates to support the Candidate of Defendants [sic] choice rather than the Delegates properly elected all to prevent Plaintiffs from voting their conscience.” Id. at 27:9-12.
    • “[T]here is a systematic campaign of election fraud at State Conventions including programming a voting machine in Arizona to count Ron Paul votes as Governor Romney votes; ballot stuffing, meaning the same person casting several ballots in several State Conventions; altering procedural rules to prevent votes being cast for Ron Paul, all as acts of intimidation to prevent National Delegates from voting their conscience.” Id. at 33:10-15.
    • “Bones have been broken. A gun has been used to threaten a Plaintiff to vote as ordered while inside of a school. Plaintiffs have been followed. Plaintiffs have been threatened with future life-time harassment if Plaintiffs do not vote as directed. Plaintiffs have been threatened to remove their names from this lawsuit or face adverse consequences.” Id. at 34:12-16.
    The sole allegation that references a specific Defendant and specific Plaintiff appears on page 32. There, the FAC alleges that “Plaintiff Renato D’Amico is a duly elected National Delegate from the State of Massachusetts who was unlawfully removed from the State Delegation when he refused to sign” an affidavit “presented by Defendant Republican Party of Massachusetts” requiring him to “swear[] under penalty of perjury that he would vote for Governor Romney.” Id. at 32. The FAC alleges that, “[i]n Massachusetts[,] at least 17 Delegates duly elected were ordered to sign” the same affidavit even though “no Party Rule . . . permits such an [a]ffidavit nor such an ultimatum, nor has said Defendant ever required such an [a]ffidavit in the past.” Id. Plaintiffs “request an order of this Court reinstating Plaintiff Renado D’Amico to his duly elected position as a Certified National Delegate and further requests that all Massachusetts Delegates be reinstated who were removed solely for refusing to sign the
    unlawful [a]ffidavit.” Id.
    Last edited by RonRules; 08-07-2012 at 03:24 PM.
    Statistics don't lie, people do.



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  3. #602
    Quote Originally Posted by ClydeCoulter View Post
    What does this mean? "the Court also DENIES Plaintiffs' Ex Parte Application to Expedite Trial"
    If he files an amended complaint, he will also have to file another application to expedite.

  4. #603
    Quote Originally Posted by ClydeCoulter View Post
    What does this mean? "the Court also DENIES Plaintiffs' Ex Parte Application to Expedite Trial"
    I think it's all good. The judge want a rock solid case and he's allowing a third submittal. That's where we can help provide good data.

    As far as the Expedite Trial, This will be a LONG and tortuous trial. That's good.
    Statistics don't lie, people do.

  5. #604
    c. Procedural history
    On July 5, 2012, Defendants filed the present Motion to Dismiss. Mot. (Dkt. 7). Four days later, this Court denied Plaintiffs’ ex parte application but explained that, if Plaintiffs Case 8:12-cv-00927-DOC-JPR Document 35 Filed 08/07/12 Page 4 of 20 Page ID #:476 wished to file an amended complaint containing the changes outlined in the ex parte application, Plaintiffs were free to do so. See July 9, 2012, Order (Dkt. 10). Plaintiffs filed the FAC, with is the operative pleading in this case, on July 11, 2012. FAC (Dkt. 12). The Court then granted
    Defendants’ request to reinstate their Motion to Dismiss because the FAC added no new factual allegations or legal theories and instead only added new Plaintiffs. See July 12, 2012, Order (Dkt. 13).

    II. Legal Standard
    Under Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 12(b)(6), a complaint must be dismissed when a plaintiff’s allegations fail to set forth a set of facts which, if true, would entitle the complainant to relief. Bell Atl. Corp. v. Twombly, 550 U.S. 544, 555 (2007); Ashcroft v. Iqbal, 556 U.S. 662, 679 (2009) (holding that a claim must be facially plausible in order to survive a motion to dismiss). The pleadings must raise the right to relief beyond the speculative level; a plaintiff must provide “more than labels and conclusions, and a formulaic recitation of the elements of a cause of action will not do.” Twombly, 550 U.S. at 555 (citing Papasan v. Allain, 478 U.S. 265, 286 (1986)). On a motion to dismiss, this court accepts as true a plaintiff’s well-pled factual allegations and construes all factual inferences in the light most favorable to the plaintiff.

    Manzarek v. St. Paul Fire & Marine Ins. Co., 519 F.3d 1025, 1031 (9th Cir. 2008). The court is not required to accept as true legal conclusions couched as factual allegations. Iqbal, 556 U.S. at 678. In evaluating a Rule 12(b)(6) motion, review is ordinarily limited to the contents of the complaint and material properly submitted with the complaint. Clegg v. Cult Awareness Network (LOL), 18 F.3d 752, 754 (9th Cir. 1994); Hal Roach Studios, Inc. v. Richard Feiner & Co., Inc., 896 F.2d 1542, 1555 n.19 (9th Cir. 1990). Under the incorporation by reference doctrine, the court may also consider documents “whose contents are alleged in a complaint and whose authenticity no party questions, but which are not physically attached to the pleading.” Branch v. Tunnell, 14 F.3d 449, 454 (9th Cir. 1994), overruled on other grounds by 307 F.3d 1119, 1121 (9th Cir. 2002).

    A motion to dismiss under Rule 12(b)(6) can not be granted based upon an affirmative defense unless that “defense raises no disputed issues of fact.” Scott v. Kuhlmann, 746 F.2d 1377, 1378 (9th Cir. 1984). For example, a motion to dismiss may be granted based on an affirmative defense where the allegations in a complaint are contradicted by matters properly subject to judicial notice. Daniels-Hall v. Nat’l Educ. Ass’n, 629 F.3d 992, 998 (9th Cir. 2010). In addition, a motion to dismiss may be granted based upon an affirmative defense where the complaint’s allegations, with all inferences drawn in Plaintiff’s favor, nonetheless show that the affirmative defense “is apparent on the face of the complaint.” See Von Saher v. Norton Simon Museum of Art at Pasadena, 592 F.3d 954, 969 (9th Cir. 2010).
    Additionally, Federal Rule of Evidence 201 allows the court to take judicial notice of certain items without converting the motion to dismiss into one for summary judgment. Barron v. Reich, 13 F.3d 1370, 1377 (9th Cir. 1994). The court may take judicial notice of facts “not subject to reasonable dispute” because they are either: “(1) generally known within the territorial jurisdiction of the trial court or (2) capable of accurate and ready determination by resort to sources whose accuracy cannot reasonably be questioned.” Fed. R. Evid. 201; see also Lee v. City of Los Angeles, 250 F.3d 668, 689 (9th Cir. 2001) (noting that the court may take judicial notice of undisputed “matters of public record”), overruled on other grounds by 307 F.3d 1119, 1125-26 (9th Cir. 2002). The court may disregard allegations in a complaint that are contradicted by matters properly subject to judicial notice. Daniels-Hall v. Nat’l Educ. Ass’n, 629 F.3d 992, 998 (9th Cir. 2010).

    Dismissal without leave to amend is appropriate only when the court is satisfied that the deficiencies in the complaint could not possibly be cured by amendment. Jackson v. Carey, 353 F.3d 750, 758 (9th Cir. 2003); Lopez v. Smith, 203 F.3d 1122, 1127 (9th Cir. 2000) (holding that dismissal with leave to amend should be granted even if no request to amend was made). Rule 15(a)(2) of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure states that leave to amend should be freely given “when justice so requires.” This policy is applied with “extreme liberality.” Morongo Band of Mission Indians v. Rose, 893 F.2d 1074, 1079 (9th Cir. 1990).
    Last edited by RonRules; 08-07-2012 at 03:29 PM.
    Statistics don't lie, people do.

  6. #605
    stupid legal speak..... someone describe wtf he response was and were to go further in plain english.

  7. #606
    III. Discussion

    Defendants argue that: (1) the First Amended Complaint (“FAC”) is too vague and conclusory to satisfy the pleading standard; and (2) to the extent that the FAC is intelligible, this Court should not adopt Plaintiffs’ interpretation of Section 1971(b) of the Voting Rights Act because it would violate Defendants’ First Amendment right of association. Plaintiffs do not substantively respond to these arguments and instead raise two procedural objections. The Court first addresses Plaintiffs’ objections and then turns to Defendants’ arguments.

    a. Plaintiffs’ procedural objections do not address the merits of Defendants’ Motion to Dismiss Plaintiffs’ Opposition opens with two arguments that this Court addresses briefly because they do not go to the merits of this case. First, Plaintiffs argue that Defendants failed to meet and confer with Plaintiffs prior to filing this Motion and in violation of Local Rule 7-3. Opp’n at 1-3. Even assuming this is true, Plaintiffs can hardly fault Defendants for failing to follow this Local Rule given that Plaintiffs repeatedly filed ex parte applications seeking orders from this Court without providing Defendants an opportunity to respond and in violation of Local
    Rule 7-19. See e.g., July 9, 2012, Order (Dkt. 10) (denying Plaintiffs ex parte relief for, among
    other things, failure to follow Local Rule 7-19).

    Second, Plaintiffs accuse Defendants’ attorneys of having a conflict of interest with their clients because “[s]everal Defendants in this case are duly elected party chairmen who are open supporters of Dr. Ron Paul.” Opp’n at 4. This argument fails for so many reasons, one of which is that a plaintiff can not defeat a motion to dismiss by simply casting aspersions on the defendant’s attorney. Rather, a plaintiff must engage the merits of the motion to show that the defendant has not actually met its burden.

    b. With one exception, Plaintiffs’ allegations are not sufficiently intelligible for this Court to even analyze whether they can state a claim A court considering a motion to dismiss “can choose to begin by identifying pleadings [within the complaint] that, because they are no more than conclusions, are not entitled to the assumption of truth.” Ashcroft v. Iqbal, 556 U.S. 662, 677 (2009). In this section, the Court first explains why it will not consider at this late date the DVDs recently filed by Plaintiffs. The Court next identifies those pleadings in the FAC that are conclusory or not sufficiently plausible.
    Finally, the Court concludes that only one page in the FAC contains allegations that are sufficiently intelligible for this Court to even analyze whether they can state a claim. At the outset, the Court notes that it is profoundly difficult to discern Plaintiffs’ legal theory because Plaintiffs’ Opposition does not cite a single case regarding the Voting Rights Act, much less any case regarding election law or the First Amendment. However, the FAC itself suggests2 and at oral argument Plaintiffs confirmed that Plaintiffs bring this action under
    Section 1971(b) of the Voting Rights Act. Section 1971(b) provides in relevant part that “[n]o person . . . shall intimidate, threaten, coerce, or attempt to intimidate, threaten, or coerce any other person for the purpose of interfering with the right of such other person to . . . vote as he may choose . . . for the office of President . . . [or] Delegates . . . at any general . . . or primary election held . . . for the purpose of selecting or electing any such candidate.” 42 U.S.C. § 1971(b).3
    Last edited by RonRules; 08-07-2012 at 03:33 PM.
    Statistics don't lie, people do.

  8. #607
    i. The Court can not consider Plaintiffs’ late-filed DVDs

    On a motion to dismiss, a district court may only consider additional material if it is judicially noticeable or “properly submitted as part of the complaint.” Hal Roach Studios, Inc. v. Richard Feiner & Co., Inc., 896 F.2d 1542, 1555 n.19 (9th Cir. 1989). The Court reviews the Motion to Dismiss without considering the contents of several DVDs that Plaintiffs recently filed because these DVDs do not fall into either of these categories.
    First, the contents of Plaintiffs’ DVDs—which appear to be testimony by various Plaintiffs—are not judicially noticeable because they are neither “generally known within the territorial jurisdiction of the trial court” nor “capable of accurate and ready determination by resort to sources whose accuracy cannot reasonably be questioned.” Fed. R. Evid. 201; see also Lee v. City of Los Angeles, 250 F.3d 668, 689 (9th Cir. 2001).
    Second, these DVDs were not properly submitted as part of the complaint because Plaintiffs filed them after Defendants moved to dismiss the FAC. Plaintiffs cannot defend against a motion to dismiss by relying on new allegations in their Opposition that are absent from the operative pleading. See Car Carriers, Inc. v. Ford Motor Co., 745 F.2d 1101, 1107 (7th Cir. 1984); Nguyen v. JP Morgan Chase Bank, No. SACV 11-01908 DOC (ANx), 2012 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 12070, ay *9 (C.D. Cal. Feb. 1, 2012). The policy reason for this rule is twofold.
    First, a court construes well-pled pleadings liberally on a motion to dismiss because the plaintiff’s attorney must certify that “factual contentions have evidentiary support,” and the attorney can be severely punished if this statement is later revealed to be false. See Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 11(b)(3). In contrast, allegations in material not attached to the complaint do not necessarily come with these enforceable promises by an attorney. Second, the purpose of a motion to dismiss is to provide the defendant with an opportunity to respond to the allegations against him; a defendant is denied this opportunity if a plaintiff can defeat a motion to dismiss by perpetually filing additional material not included in the complaint.
    Statistics don't lie, people do.

  9. #608
    ii. The FAC is riddled with conclusory allegations lacking plausibility

    As previously noted, a court accepts as true a plaintiff’s well-pled factual allegations and construes all factual inferences in the light most favorable to the plaintiff. Manzarek v. St. Paul reading a complaint’s allegations liberally is that a plaintiff often must sue before she has had the benefit of discovery and that defendants are frequently in a better position to know the details of how their acts caused the plaintiff’s harm. However, this policy justification vanishes where the harm to the plaintiff is unclear. Thus, pleadings must raise the right to relief beyond the speculative level; a plaintiff must provide “more than labels and conclusions.” Twombly,
    550 U.S. at 555.
    The following allegations use mere labels and conclusions from which the Court can not discern what Plaintiffs’ harm is, much less who has done what to whom.
    • “Defendants have unlawfully used State Bylaws.” FAC 27:5-6.
    • “Defendants have refused to Certify [sic] Delegates who were properly elected.” Id. at 27:7-8.
    • “[I]n almost every state in the United States[,] Defendants engaged in a scheme to intimidate and harass Delegates who were supporting a Candidate that Defendants did not approve of. This harassment included the use of violence, intimidating demands that Delegates sign affidavits under penalty of perjury with the threat of criminal prosecution for perjury as well as financial penalties and fines if the Delegate fails to vote as instructed by Defendants.” Id. at 26:21-26.
    • “Defendants have further harassed and intimidated Plaintiffs with untimely Rule changes designed to deny a quorum or to manipulate Delegates supporting a particular Candidate to be deprived of a fair election in furtherance of a scheme to deny Plaintiffs the right to vote their conscience on all ballots.” FAC 26:27-28, 27:1-2.
    • “Defendants have altered the voting ballot results to fraudulently reflect an outcome that is inconsistent with the actual voting ballot results for the purpose of certifying a fraudulently selected slate of Delegates to support the Candidate of Defendants [sic] choice rather than the Delegates properly elected all to prevent Plaintiffs from voting their conscience.” Id. at 27:9-12.
    • “[T]here is a systematic campaign of election fraud at State Conventions including programming a voting machine in Arizona to count Ron Paul votes as Governor Romney votes; ballot stuffing, meaning the same person casting several ballots in several State Conventions; altering procedural rules to prevent votes being cast for Ron Paul, all as acts of intimidation to prevent National Delegates from voting their conscience.” Id. at 33:10-15.
    • “Bones have been broken. A gun has been used to threaten a Plaintiff to vote as ordered while inside of a school. Plaintiffs have been followed. Plaintiffs have been threatened with future life-time harassment if Plaintiffs do not vote as directed. Plaintiffs have been threatened to remove their names from this lawsuit or face adverse consequences.” Id. at 34:12-16.
    These allegations are all riddled with the same error. For example, Plaintiffs’ vague reference to “State Bylaws” gives this Court no inkling as to which of the 50 states and which of the millions of pages of bylaws Plaintiffs refer. Similarly, Plaintiffs’ use of the passive voice renders it impossible to discern who broke the bones of whom, who pointed a gun at whom, and whether any of the more than 100 Defendants were even involved. Finally, Plaintiffs’ vague allegations of voting ballot fraud occurring somewhere at sometime and apparently committed simultaneously by all “Defendants” lacks plausibility. While Plaintiffs make an oblique reference to a voting machine somewhere in Arizona, the lack of clarity in this allegation is insufficient to raise it to a level above mere speculation.
    Thus, this Court does not accept these allegations as true. See McHenry v. Renne, 84 F.3d 1172, 1176 (9th Cir. 1996) (affirming dismissal of complaint where lower court reasoned that complaint failed to “clearly and concisely explain[] which allegations are relevant to which defendants” and noted that the “purpose of the court system is not, after all, to provide a forum for storytelling or political griping, but to resolve legal disputes”).
    Last edited by RonRules; 08-07-2012 at 03:37 PM.
    Statistics don't lie, people do.



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  11. #609
    iii. The sole intelligible allegation is that a specific Defendant removed elected delegates who refused to vote for a particular nominee at the convention

    The sole allegation that is pled with some clarity is that the Defendant Republican Party of Massachusetts removed at least 17 elected delegates from the state delegation for the national convention because those delegates refused to sign an affidavit promising to vote for a particular nominee. Specifically, Plaintiffs allege that “Plaintiff Renato D’Amico is a duly elected National Delegate from the State of Massachusetts who was unlawfully removed from the State Delegation when he refused to sign” an affidavit “presented by Defendant Republican Party of Massachusetts” requiring him to “swear[] under penalty of perjury that he would vote for Governor Romney.” FAC at 32. Plaintiffs also allege that, “[i]n Massachusetts[,] at least 17 Delegates duly elected were ordered to sign” the same affidavit even though “no Party Rule . . .permits such an [a]ffidavit nor such an ultimatum, nor has said Defendant ever required such an [a]ffidavit in the past.” Id. Plaintiffs “request an order of this Court reinstating Plaintiff Renado D’Amico to his duly elected position as a Certified National Delegate and further requests that all Massachusetts Delegates be reinstated who were removed solely for refusing to sign the unlawful [a]ffidavit.” Id.
    This pleading is the sole intelligible pleading in the FAC because the Court can at least discern who did what to whom. Thus, the Court will construe the FAC as making only this allegation and analyze only this allegation in the next section to determine whether Plaintiffs have stated a claim.
    Statistics don't lie, people do.

  12. #610
    Isn't it wonderful.. that Ron Paul's name has been attached to this lawsuit is such a fashion...
    DO YOU THINK THEY COULD OF BROUGHT THIS SUIT UNDER ANOTHER NAME...
    DO YOU THINK THEY COULD OF NOT HUNG ON THE COAT TAILS OF RON PAUL AND AVOIDED DRAGGING HIS NAME THROUGH THE MUD!!!!!!!...
    For the foregoing reasons, the Court GRANTS Defendants’ Motion to Dismiss.
    However, the Court dismisses WITHOUT PREJUDICE. The Court will afford Plaintiffs a third
    and final opportunity to attempt to sufficiently plead a violation of Section 1971(b) of the
    Voting Rights Act. See Schreiber Distributing Co. v. Serv-Well Furniture Co., 806 F.2d 1393,
    1401 (9th Cir. 1986).
    Because the Court grants Defendants’ Motion to Dismiss, the Court also DENIES
    Plaintiffs’ Ex Parte Application to Expedite Trial [16].
    Plaintiffs shall file an amended complaint, if at all, on or before August 20, 2012.
    DATED: August 7, 2012
    __________________________________
    DAVID O. CARTER
    UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE

  13. #611
    c. Plaintiffs fail to state a claim under Section 1971(b) of the Voting Rights
    Act

    Defendants argue that a court order reinstating delegates would violate Defendants’ First Amendment right to exclude certain people from leadership positions in their party. Mot. 12-15. Defendants’ argument appears to be that Plaintiffs’ interpretation of the Voting Rights Act would violate Defendants’ First Amendment right to exclude, and thus this Court should not adopt Plaintiffs’ interpretation because it would render the Voting Rights Act unconstitutional.

    4 The First Amendment limits federal encroachment on political parties’ right to exclude. This First Amendment right also limits states’ encroachment on political parties’ nominee selection process because the First Amendment is incorporated by the Fourteenth Amendment against the Recently, in Northwest Austin Municipal Utility District No. One v. Holder, the United States Supreme Court was confronted with a constitutional challenge to a different section of the Voting Rights Act not at issue here. See 557 U.S. 193, 205 (2009) (discussing challenge to 42 U.S.C. §§ 1973b, 1973c). The Supreme Court chose to avoid addressing the constitutional issue
    and instead resolved the dispute through statutory interpretation. Id. The Court did so by invoking the canon of constitutional avoidance, which instructs courts to “not decide a constitutional question if there is some other ground upon which to dispose of the case.” Id.; see also Simmons v. Galvin, 575 F.3d 24, 42 (1st Cir. 2009) (following Northwest Austin to avoid reaching “the serious constitutional questions which . . . would be raised were we to adopt plaintiffs’ construction of the statute” because “courts, particularly in [Voting Rights Act] cases, should avoid deciding constitutional issues where statutory interpretation obviates the issue”).
    This Court follows the United States Supreme Court’s direction in Northwest Austin and thus does not address the merits of Defendants’ argument that Plaintiffs’ interpretation of Section 1971(b) of the Voting Rights Act would be unconstitutional. As detailed below, the Court first describes the contours of Defendants’ First Amendment right to exclude. Second, the Court describes Plaintiff’s interpretation of the Voting Rights Act. Finally, the Court concludes that no authority supports Plaintiffs’ interpretation of Section 1971(b), but that that there are several indisputably constitutional alternative interpretations of Section 1971(b). Because
    Plaintiffs’ allegations do not state a claim under these alternative interpretations, the Court GRANTS Defendants’ Motion to Dismiss WITHOUT PREJUDICE.
    Statistics don't lie, people do.

  14. #612
    Political parties have a limited right to exclude people from membership and leadership roles

    Although Defendants’ right-to-exclude argument references both the First and the Fourteenth Amendment, the latter’s incorporation of the former against the states does not appear to be a relevant defense where, as here, Defendants appear to argue that a federal court’s order based on Plaintiffs’ interpretation of a federal law would violate Defendants’ right to exclude.

    Political parties and their members have a First Amendment right to association free from federal encroachment; this right includes the “right to exclude” people from membership or leadership roles in the party in certain circumstances. California Democratic Party v. Jones, 530 U.S. 567, 574, 120 S. Ct. 2402, 2408, 147 L. Ed. 2d 502 (2000) (“[A] corollary of the right to associate is the right not to associate.”); New York State Bd. of Elections v. Lopez Torres, 552 U.S. 196, 202 (2008); Democratic Party of United States v. Wisconsin, 450 U.S. 107, 121 (1981). This right to exclude includes the right to “choose a candidate-selection process that will in [the party’s] view produce the nominee who best represents its political platform.” Lopez Torres, 552 U.S. at 202. It also “encompasses a political party’s decisions about the identity of, and the process for electing, its leaders.” Eu v. San Francisco Cnty. Democratic Cent. Comm., 489 U.S. 214, 224, 229 (1989) (“Freedom of association means . . . that a political party has a right to identify the people who constitute the association . . . and to select a standard bearer who best represents the party’s ideologies and preferences.”) (quotation marks and citations omitted).
    “In no area is the political [party’s] right to exclude more important than in the process of selecting its nominee.” Jones, 530 U.S. 567, 568 (2000). “That process often determines the party’s positions on the most significant public policy issues of the day, and even when those positions are predetermined it is the nominee who becomes the party’s ambassador to the general electorate in winning it over to the party’s views.” Id. “[B]eing saddled with an unwanted, and possibly antithetical, nominee would . . . severely transform” the party. Id. at579; see also Eu, 489 U.S. at 231 n.21.
    Of course, “[n]either the right to associate nor the right to participate in political activities is absolute.” Democratic Party of United States v. Wisconsin, 450 U.S. 107, 124 (1981). For example, a political party’s right to exclude does not protect a party’s demand of ideological fealty from its members where such a demand violates other constitutional rights, such as the Fifteenth Amendment. See Baskin v. Brown, 174 F.2d 391, 392 (4th Cir. 1949) (holding that political party’s rules, including rule in which “voting in the primaries was conditioned upon the voter[] taking an oath that he believed in social and educational separation of the races,” violated the Fifteenth Amendment); Morse v. Republican Party of Virginia, 517 U.S. 186, 200 n.17, 228-29 (1996) (citing Baskin v. Brown favorably as “in accord with the commands of the Fifteenth Amendment and the laws passed pursuant to it”); Lopez Torres, 552 U.S. at 203 (“These [associational] rights are circumscribed, however, when . . . , for example, the party’s racially discriminatory action may become state action that violates the Fifteenth Amendment.”).
    The Voting Rights Act as enacted under Congress’ “power to enforce the provisions of the Fifteenth Amendment.” City of Boerne v. Flores, 521 U.S. 507, 518, 117 S. Ct. 2157, 2163, 138 L. Ed. 2d 624 (1997); Shelby County, Ala. v. Holder, 679 F.3d 848, 864 (D.C. Cir. 2012)
    (“[W]hen reauthorizing the [Voting Rights] Act in 2006, Congress expressly invoked its enforcement authority under both the Fourteenth and Fifteenth Amendments.”). “[W]hen Congress seeks to combat racial discrimination in voting—protecting both the right to be free from discrimination based on race and the right to be free from discrimination in voting, two rights subject to heightened scrutiny—it acts at the apex of its power.” Shelby County, 679 F.3d at 860; see also City of Boerne v. Flores, 521 U.S. 507, 518 (1997) (“Legislation which deters or remedies constitutional violations can fall within the sweep of Congress’ enforcement power even if in the process it prohibits conduct which is not itself unconstitutional.”). Thus, a political parties’ First Amendment right to exclude does not per se render the Voting Rights Act unconstitutional. See Morse v. Republican Party of Virginia, 517 U.S. 186, 214-15, 228 (1996)
    (rejecting political party’s argument that its First Amendment right to exclude trumped 42 U.S.C. § 1973c, a different section of the Voting Rights Act not at issue in this case.).
    Furthermore, election laws often impose “some burden” on a First Amendment right to associate. Burdick v. Takushi, 504 U.S. 428, 433 (1992). The level of scrutiny with which a court reviews the challenged law depends on its effect upon the First Amendment right. See id. at 434. Currently, the standard of review applied in challenges to the Voting Rights Act “remains unsettled.” Shelby County, Ala. v. Holder, 679 F.3d 848, 859 (D.C. Cir. 2012) (noting that Supreme Court’s decision in Northwest Austin could be perceived as a “powerful signal”
    that the Supreme Court would depart from the “rationality” review it previously applied in Katzenbach); see also Nw. Austin Mun. Util. Dist. No. One v. Holder, 557 U.S. 193, 204 (2009) (declining to resolve parties’ disagreement “on the standard to apply in deciding whether .
    Congress exceeded its Fifteenth Amendment enforcement power in extending the preclearance requirements” of 42 U.S.C. §§ 1973b and 1973c, Voting Rights Act sections not at issue here).
    However, courts attempting to determine the standard of review that applies have resolved this question “by using traditional principles of deferential review” to federal laws, including the canon of construction that such laws are entitled to a “presumption of validity.” Shelby County, 679 F.3d at 861-62.5
    Plaintiffs make literally no argument and cite no case law to explain what government interest their interpretation of Section 1971(b) serves. Because the American court system is an adversarial one, this Court may not make arguments on Plaintiffs’ behalf. But this is not to say that more complete briefing by Plaintiffs could not elucidate a governmental interest. Indeed, in Lopez Torres, the Supreme Court observed that “the State can require” and courts have previously “permitted States to [undermine] ‘party bosses’ by requiring party-candidate
    selection through processes more favorable to insurgents.” See Lopez Torres, 552 U.S. 196, 205 (2008). Justice Scalia—hardly a champion of campaign finance reform—has even conjectured that a governmental interest may exist in crafting a nominee selection process that avoids “plac[ing] a high premium upon the ability to raise money.” See id. In addition, the Supreme Court has rejected a political party’s argument that its First Amendment right to exclude allowed
    it to condition delegate status on payment of a $45 fee in violation of 42 U.S.C. § 1973c, which is a section of the Voting Rights Act not at issue in this case. See Morse v. Republican Party of Virginia, 517 U.S. 186, 214-15, 228 (1996).
    The Court included the foregoing section to explain Defendant’s First Amendment right to exclude and some of its limitations. However, the Court need not reach “the serious constitutional questions” raised if the Court were to adopt Plaintiffs’ interpretation of the Voting Rights Act because “courts, particularly in [Voting Rights Act] cases, should avoid deciding constitutional issues where statutory interpretation obviates the issue.” Simmons v. Galvin, 575 F.3d 24, 42 (1st Cir. 2009).
    Last edited by RonRules; 08-07-2012 at 03:46 PM.
    Statistics don't lie, people do.

  15. #613
    the Court concludes that no authority supports Plaintiffs’ interpretation of Section 1971(b), but that that there are several indisputably constitutional alternative interpretations of Section 1971(b). Because
    Plaintiffs’ allegations do not state a claim under these alternative interpretations, the Court GRANTS Defendants’ Motion to Dismiss WITHOUT PREJUDICE.
    So now he needs to state a c/a under those alternate interpretations asap and we need to get the facts to him so he can.

    Did the judge give any clue during the argument what 'alternative interpretations' he had in mind? This is key.

    violation of contract because the rules party members vote and participate under should govern maybe? What arguments did the judge seem receptive to?
    Last edited by sailingaway; 08-07-2012 at 03:47 PM.
    "Integrity means having to say things that people don't want to hear & especially to say things that the regime doesn't want to hear.” -Ron Paul

    "Bathtub falls and police officers kill more Americans than terrorism, yet we've been asked to sacrifice our most sacred rights for fear of falling victim to it." -Edward Snowden

  16. #614
    Plaintiffs interpret the phrase “intimidate, threaten, or coerce” in Section 1971(b) of the Voting Rights Act to include a political party’s conditioning of delegate status on a promise to vote for a particular nominee

    Plaintiffs appear to sue under Section 1971(b) of the Voting Rights Act. See FAC at 26:3-7 (quoting language from Section 1971(b)). This section provides in relevant part that “[n]o person . . . shall intimidate, threaten, coerce, or attempt to intimidate, threaten, or coerce any other person for the purpose of interfering with the right of such other person to . . . vote as he may choose . . . for the office of President . . . [or] Delegates . . . at any general . . . or primary
    election held . . . for the purpose of selecting or electing any such candidate.” 42 U.S.C. § 1971(b).
    Plaintiffs make no argument in their Opposition. However, the facts they allege suggest that Plaintiffs believe they can state a claim under Section 1971(b) because the phrase “intimidate, threaten, or coerce” encompasses Defendant Republican Party of Massachusetts’ conditioning of delegate status upon the putative delegate signing an affidavit promising to vote for a particular nominee where no state law or party rule expressly authorizes said Defendant’s act.
    Statistics don't lie, people do.

  17. #615
    Quote Originally Posted by judge
    Because the American court system is an
    adversarial one, this Court may not make arguments on Plaintiffs’ behalf.
    Bull$#@!, they just did it for the defendants on Obamacare ! Where's the redress?
    "When a portion of wealth is transferred from the person who owns it—without his consent and without compensation, and whether by force or by fraud—to anyone who does not own it, then I say that property is violated; that an act of plunder is committed." - Bastiat : The Law

    "nothing evil grows in alcohol" ~ @presence

    "I mean can you imagine what it would be like if firemen acted like police officers? They would only go into a burning house only if there's a 100% chance they won't get any burns. I mean, you've got to fully protect thy self first." ~ juleswin

  18. #616
    iii. No authority supports Plaintiffs’ interpretation of the Section 1971(b) of the Voting Rights Act

    The Court has found only four dozen cases discussing Section 1971(b) of the Voting Rights Act. None of these cases interpret the phrase “intimidate, threaten, or coerce” as broadly as Plaintiffs urge. The Court reviews one such case, U.S. by Katzenbach v. Original Knights of Ku Klux Klan (“Ku Klux Klan”), to provide an example of an indisputably constitutional definition of the phrase “intimidate, threaten, or coerce” and to illustrate the kind of evils the Voting Rights Act was designed to encompass. In Ku Klux Klan, the court found that
    defendants’ “acts of economic coercion, intimidation, and violence directed at Negro citizens . .. for the purpose of deterring their registering to vote” violated Section 1971. 250 F. Supp. 330,355 (E.D. La. 1965). In Ku Klux Klan, defendants’ “coercive tactics” included a “six men . . .wrecking crew” to punish people as young as twelve years old who were “violating Southern traditions” by, for example, patronizing facilities that “allow[ed] Negroes to use White rest rooms.” Id. 338-40. Defendants went to a restaurant where “Negroes [were] seeking service” and entered “brandishing clubs, ordered the Negroes to leave and threatened to kill Sam Barnes,
    a member of the Bogalusa Voters League.” Id. at 341. Defendants “entered [a] park and dispersed the Negro citizens with clubs, belts, and other weapons” with “the purpose of interfering with the enjoyment of the park by Negroes and white CORE workers who were . . . using the facilities for the first time on a non-segregated basis.” Id. at 341-42; see also U.S. v. McLeod, 385 F.2d 734, 741 (5th Cir. 1967) (holding that defendant county officials’ “pattern of baseless arrests and prosecutions” of participants in black voter registration drive violated Section 1971(b)).
    While these examples are not the only definitions of the phrase “intimidate, threaten, or coerce,” they at least demonstrate that there are several constitutional interpretations of Section 1971(b) of the Voting Rights Act that do not violate Defendants’ First Amendment right. Plaintiffs do not allege any acts akin to those done by defendants in cases discussing Section 1971(b). Nor do Plaintiffs make any argument or cite any case law or legislative history regarding Section 1971(b) to explain why the phrase “intimidate, threaten, or coerce” should be extended to the act at issue here, namely, a political parties’ conditioning of delegate status upon the putative delegate signing an affidavit promising to vote for a particular nominee where no state law or party rule expressly authorizes that affidavit.
    Given that Plaintiffs do not allege any acts akin to the cases discussing section 1971(b), the Court GRANTS Defendants’ Motion to Dismiss. In addition, because the Court grants Defendants’ Motion to Dismiss, the Court also DENIES Plaintiffs’ Ex Parte Application to Expedite Trial.
    Statistics don't lie, people do.



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  20. #617
    Plaintiffs make literally no argument and cite no case law to explain what government interest their interpretation of Section 1971(b) serves. Because the American court system is an adversarial one, this Court may not make arguments on Plaintiffs’ behalf. But this is not to say that more complete briefing by Plaintiffs could not elucidate a governmental interest. Indeed, in Lopez Torres, the Supreme Court observed that “the State can require” and courts have previously “permitted States to [undermine] ‘party bosses’ by requiring party-candidate
    selection through processes more favorable to insurgents.” See Lopez Torres, 552 U.S. 196, 205 (2008). Justice Scalia—hardly a champion of campaign finance reform—has even conjectured that a governmental interest may exist in crafting a nominee selection process that avoids “plac[ing] a high premium upon the ability to raise money.” See id. In addition, the Supreme Court has rejected a political party’s argument that its First Amendment right to exclude allowed
    it to condition delegate status on payment of a $45 fee in violation of 42 U.S.C. § 1973c, which is a section of the Voting Rights Act not at issue in this case. See Morse v. Republican Party of Virginia, 517 U.S. 186, 214-15, 228 (1996).
    The Court included the foregoing section to explain Defendant’s First Amendment right to exclude and some of its limitations. However, the Court need not reach “the serious constitutional questions” raised if the Court were to adopt Plaintiffs’ interpretation of the Voting Rights Act because “courts, particularly in [Voting Rights Act] cases, should avoid deciding constitutional issues where statutory interpretation obviates the issue.” Simmons v. Galvin, 575 F.3d 24, 42 (1st Cir. 2009).
    ok. your next post was more clear about what they want to see in the complaint.
    "Integrity means having to say things that people don't want to hear & especially to say things that the regime doesn't want to hear.” -Ron Paul

    "Bathtub falls and police officers kill more Americans than terrorism, yet we've been asked to sacrifice our most sacred rights for fear of falling victim to it." -Edward Snowden

  21. #618
    d. This holding is extremely narrow

    The Court emphasizes the narrowness of its holding. Defendants advocate a constricted interpretation of Section 1971(b) of the Voting Rights Act. All too frequently, parties that urge a constricted interpretation of the Voting Rights Act do so to accomplish exactly that which the Voting Rights Act is designed to prevent: disenfranchisement of voters who historically have suffered discrimination. See e.g., Ku Klux Klan, 250 F. Supp. 330 (E.D. La. 1965). As numerous courts have recognized, such “discrimination in voting is uniquely harmful in several ways: it cannot be remedied by money damages and . . . lawsuits to enjoin discriminatory voting laws are costly, take years to resolve, and leave those elected under the challenged law with the benefit of incumbency.” Shelby County, Ala. v. Holder, 679 F.3d 848, 861 (D.C. Cir. 2012).

    This Court has no desire for its holding—which is reached under the limited facts of this case and without substantive legal argument by Plaintiffs—to be refashioned into a weapon wielded by those who wish to prolong the “blight of racial discrimination in voting, which has infected the electoral process in parts of our country for nearly a century.” See State of S.C. v. Katzenbach, 383 U.S. 301, 308 (1966). There is a very real risk that those who employ discriminatory practices will use any legal argument available, including this Court’s decision, to oppose future litigation brought under the Voting Rights Act. As Congress found when it reauthorized the Voting Rights Act in 2006, “between 1982 and 2005, minority plaintiffs obtained favorable outcomes in some 653 . . . suits” brought under a different section of the Voting Rights Act than that at issue here, and these lawsuits provided “relief from discriminatory voting practices in at least 825 counties.” Shelby County, 679 F.3d at 868.

    Between 1982 and 2004, an additional “105 successful . . . enforcement actions were brought” under another section of the Voting Rights Act. Id. at 870. Based on this evidence and extensive additional documentation, Congress found that “serious and widespread intentional discrimination persisted” and concluded that the work of the Voting Rights Act “is not yet done.” Id. at 872, 873.

    To avoid this decision being misused, the Court emphasizes what this case is not. This is not a case in which Defendants’ conditioning of delegate status is based on a racial motive or has a disparate impact on minority voters. This is not a case alleging abuse of government officials’ authority. This is not a case where Defendants’ acts were accomplished through violence or economic coercion, given that Plaintiffs’ allegations regarding broken bones and guns are inadequately pled. Finally, this is not a case alleging a violation of a specific law (other than 42 U.S.C. § 1971(b)) or specific party rule, given that Plaintiffs’ allegations regarding unspecified “State Bylaws” are unintelligible.

    Thus, the Court’s extremely narrow holding in this case leaves unscathed both the Voting Rights Act and political parties’ First Amendment right of association.
    Last edited by RonRules; 08-07-2012 at 03:57 PM.
    Statistics don't lie, people do.

  22. #619
    Quote Originally Posted by libertylastchance View Post
    Isn't it wonderful.. that Ron Paul's name has been attached to this lawsuit is such a fashion...
    DO YOU THINK THEY COULD OF BROUGHT THIS SUIT UNDER ANOTHER NAME...
    DO YOU THINK THEY COULD OF NOT HUNG ON THE COAT TAILS OF RON PAUL AND AVOIDED DRAGGING HIS NAME THROUGH THE MUD!!!!!!!...
    For the foregoing reasons, the Court GRANTS Defendants’ Motion to Dismiss.
    However, the Court dismisses WITHOUT PREJUDICE. The Court will afford Plaintiffs a third
    and final opportunity to attempt to sufficiently plead a violation of Section 1971(b) of the
    Voting Rights Act. See Schreiber Distributing Co. v. Serv-Well Furniture Co., 806 F.2d 1393,
    1401 (9th Cir. 1986).
    Because the Court grants Defendants’ Motion to Dismiss, the Court also DENIES
    Plaintiffs’ Ex Parte Application to Expedite Trial [16].
    Plaintiffs shall file an amended complaint, if at all, on or before August 20, 2012.
    DATED: August 7, 2012
    __________________________________
    DAVID O. CARTER
    UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE
    My concern is the FINAL part. WE have to make sure this is GOOD. How do we do that?
    "Integrity means having to say things that people don't want to hear & especially to say things that the regime doesn't want to hear.” -Ron Paul

    "Bathtub falls and police officers kill more Americans than terrorism, yet we've been asked to sacrifice our most sacred rights for fear of falling victim to it." -Edward Snowden

  23. #620
    IV. Disposition

    For the foregoing reasons, the Court GRANTS Defendants’ Motion to Dismiss.
    However, the Court dismisses WITHOUT PREJUDICE. The Court will afford Plaintiffs a third and final opportunity to attempt to sufficiently plead a violation of Section 1971(b) of the Voting Rights Act. See Schreiber Distributing Co. v. Serv-Well Furniture Co., 806 F.2d 1393, 1401 (9th Cir. 1986). Because the Court grants Defendants’ Motion to Dismiss, the Court also DENIES Plaintiffs’ Ex Parte Application to Expedite Trial [16].
    Plaintiffs shall file an amended complaint, if at all, on or before August 20, 2012.
    DATED: August 7, 2012
    __________________________________
    DAVID O. CARTER
    UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE
    Statistics don't lie, people do.

  24. #621
    Quote Originally Posted by RonRules View Post
    IV. Disposition

    For the foregoing reasons, the Court GRANTS Defendants’ Motion to Dismiss.
    However, the Court dismisses WITHOUT PREJUDICE. The Court will afford Plaintiffs a third and final opportunity to attempt to sufficiently plead a violation of Section 1971(b) of the Voting Rights Act. See Schreiber Distributing Co. v. Serv-Well Furniture Co., 806 F.2d 1393, 1401 (9th Cir. 1986). Because the Court grants Defendants’ Motion to Dismiss, the Court also DENIES Plaintiffs’ Ex Parte Application to Expedite Trial [16].
    Plaintiffs shall file an amended complaint, if at all, on or before August 20, 2012.
    DATED: August 7, 2012
    __________________________________
    DAVID O. CARTER
    UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE
    there is the huge problem. This next complaint needs to be good we don't want a motion to dismiss WITH prejudice which would mean they couldn't bring suit again . When I was doing my own 'conspiracy think' on this my concern was that the case wouldn't be thrown away. I got over that because our delegates ARE doing it, and because no one else seems to be planning to do anything else.
    "Integrity means having to say things that people don't want to hear & especially to say things that the regime doesn't want to hear.” -Ron Paul

    "Bathtub falls and police officers kill more Americans than terrorism, yet we've been asked to sacrifice our most sacred rights for fear of falling victim to it." -Edward Snowden

  25. #622
    I think this is a great opportunity. The judge basically tells us step by step what needs to be added. A dismissal and leave to amend is a great thing.

    The judge clearly sees this is a worthwhile case and must have worked till 1 or 2 AM to prepare this ruling.

    We're on!
    Statistics don't lie, people do.

  26. #623
    Ok,so they dismissed the case we lost fkn wonderful!!!! They are all in on it!!! Judges too!!!! My wife works in a court house very very corrupt!!!! The saying goes its not what you know it's who you know!!! Thats what they go by in the courthouses!!

  27. #624
    Quote Originally Posted by RonRules View Post
    I think this is a great opportunity. The judge basically tells us step by step what needs to be added. A dismissal and leave to amend is a great thing.

    The judge clearly sees this is a worthwhile case and must have worked till 1 or 2 AM to prepare this ruling.

    We're on!
    I agree that the judge put a lot of himself into this. I hope we can capitalize on it.
    "Integrity means having to say things that people don't want to hear & especially to say things that the regime doesn't want to hear.” -Ron Paul

    "Bathtub falls and police officers kill more Americans than terrorism, yet we've been asked to sacrifice our most sacred rights for fear of falling victim to it." -Edward Snowden



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  29. #625
    Quote Originally Posted by rb3b3 View Post
    Ok,so they dismissed the case we lost fkn wonderful!!!! They are all in on it!!! Judges too!!!! My wife works in a court house very very corrupt!!!! The saying goes its not what you know it's who you know!!! Thats what they go by in the courthouses!!
    It is not over.

    Quote Originally Posted by losinglife View Post
    stupid legal speak..... someone describe wtf he response was and were to go further in plain english.
    Plaintiffs (Ron Paul delegates) shall file an amended complaint with specifics (who, what, where, when, how and refile case. It has to be done in less than 13 days.

    That is it as short as possible.


    Edit:
    Can someone put this in one google document so it is not cut into pieces? I am very interested in this and would like to study it a bit further.

    Edit 2:
    Dont panic I got the towel. It is not over it, is not done, it is maybe begining of the end but it is not over.

    Edit 3:
    @sailingaway: Yea but for final and last complaint judge pretty clearly wrote what he needs, where improvements are needed and what to add im final complaint...

    Edit 4:
    Someone ask R. Gilbert what he needs and what he needs to get all information and ask it fast. There is not much time!

    Edit 5:
    If people here want to help there needs to be clear plan how and who and when...
    Last edited by Barrex; 08-07-2012 at 04:09 PM.
    Today I decided to get banned and spam activism on this forum...

    SUPPORT RANDPAULDIGITAL GRASSROOTS PROJECTS TODAY!

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    For more info. or to help spread the word, go to the promotion thread here.



    Quote Originally Posted by orenbus View Post
    If I had to answer this question truthfully I'd probably piss a lot of people off lol, Barrex would be a better person to ask he doesn't seem to care lol.


  30. #626
    Quote Originally Posted by rb3b3 View Post
    Ok,so they dismissed the case we lost fkn wonderful!!!! They are all in on it!!! Judges too!!!! My wife works in a court house very very corrupt!!!! The saying goes its not what you know it's who you know!!! Thats what they go by in the courthouses!!
    Huh?

  31. #627
    Quote Originally Posted by Barrex View Post
    Plaintiffs (Ron Paul delegates) shall file an amended complaint with specifics (who, what, where, when, how and refile case. It has to be done in less than 13 days.

    That is it as short as possible.
    Barrex, can you make heads or tails out of what the judgment reads? It appears as though he's giving hints of case law that might be used, is that true?
    "When a portion of wealth is transferred from the person who owns it—without his consent and without compensation, and whether by force or by fraud—to anyone who does not own it, then I say that property is violated; that an act of plunder is committed." - Bastiat : The Law

    "nothing evil grows in alcohol" ~ @presence

    "I mean can you imagine what it would be like if firemen acted like police officers? They would only go into a burning house only if there's a 100% chance they won't get any burns. I mean, you've got to fully protect thy self first." ~ juleswin

  32. #628
    Quote Originally Posted by Barrex View Post
    It is not over.



    Plaintiffs (Ron Paul delegates) shall file an amended complaint with specifics (who, what, where, when, how and refile case. It has to be done in less than 13 days.

    That is it as short as possible.
    where do you see the 13 days? I missed that.
    "Integrity means having to say things that people don't want to hear & especially to say things that the regime doesn't want to hear.” -Ron Paul

    "Bathtub falls and police officers kill more Americans than terrorism, yet we've been asked to sacrifice our most sacred rights for fear of falling victim to it." -Edward Snowden

  33. #629
    I don't know.
    Last edited by lawdida; 09-10-2012 at 01:45 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by CPUd View Post
    Righteous mutiny - RPF is taking over the lawsuit.
    Boom:

    Are we just playing around?

    The Grand Shi Strategy

  34. #630
    Watch the media with big headlines: Ron Paul lawsuit dismissed!
    Statistics don't lie, people do.

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