Ha, I thought it said globalist.
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Ha, I thought it said globalist.
Seems like something that only you could decide.
You could just tell people that you're a marine biologist. What could possibly go wrong?Originally Posted by TheOraclePaul
I don't know a lot of electricians making $400k per year...
If there are so many surplus geologists how come they are so well paid and have so many open jobs?
In New Zealand:
The Coastguard is a Charity
Air Traffic Control is a private company run on user fees
The DMV is a private non-profit
Rescue helicopters and ambulances are operated by charities and are plastered with corporate logos
The agriculture industry has zero subsidies
5% of the national vote, gets you 5 seats in Parliament
A tax return has 4 fields
Business licenses aren't a thing
Prostitution is legal
We have a constitutional right to refuse any type of medical care
How long is grad school and how much?
Last edited by matt0611; 06-12-2012 at 05:48 PM.
........
Last edited by pcgame; 06-23-2012 at 06:54 PM.
Both. Geothermal power plant.
Specialize in volcanology studies while learning the basics with a part time electrical labor job.
And if you get the Hawaii gig, you can live in a warm climate.
I worked electrical labor for almost two years and learned enough to be a danger to both myself and others -and I live on an active volcano.
I'm sure you could do much better if you applied yourself.
http://www.punageothermalventure.com...ent-technology
PGV, the only commercial geothermal power plant in the state, is in the Puna District of Hawai‘i Island. It’s located about 21 miles south of Hilo. The facility is situated on about 30 acres of a 500-acre plot along the Lower East Rift Zone (LERZ) of the Kilauea Volcano.
Powered by natural heat from the earth, PGV’s power plant has provided stable, sustainable electricity for the Big Island of Hawaii for more than a decade. The plant generates about 20 percent of the electrical energy—and energy diversification—to that market under a Power Purchase Agreement with HELCO.
Last edited by bunklocoempire; 06-12-2012 at 06:07 PM.
http://www.seg.org/careers/employees/view-jobs/joblist
tons of jobs, not...
stable, good $$$, work with hands = electrician
unstable, travel, good $$$, cog in a wheel or government whore = geologist
-Why would you say it's unstable? What about all the electricians I'm reading about that are out of work due to the housing bust? I live in Canada so I really don't know about what the trades are experiencing down there vs here, but housing is WAY overpriced up here and I know a bust will happen soon so I want to pick right.
-Electricians can be brought in from third world countries (look at Dubai) and paid almost nothing. I know there are more regulations over here but that doesn't mean it couldn't happen.
-Regarding the cost of schooling: it's almost free to do a Masters because the school pays you a stipend or gives you a TA position teaching students.
-I'd like to move to: Australia, Europe, US (California/Florida/Colorado) - not in any particular order but I want to know that it's possible with whatever career I choose.
Funny, it's like this thread was tailor-made for me. I have a physics and electronics background, and my first career move was with a mineral exploration geophysics (resistivity and magnetometer surveys).
If you are creative and ambitious, really good at what you do, and focus on applied geology/geophysics, and specifically exploration, and try to avoid dependency on the academic publicly funded "vacuum" side of geology (except as it increases your knowledge in an applied field), your knowledge and ingenuity can translate to real power, and you can make a LOT of money.
If you have geology as a major with a minor in electrical engineering (NOT electrician, but actual electrical engineering), your value as a geologist skyrockets, as you become a specialized breed. Even if you don't apply your knowledge as an entrepreneur, your value to firms like mineral exploration EQUIPMENT companies cannot be underestimated.
Minerals of all kinds are becoming increasingly scarce as an exponential trend that has been maturing for some time, so there really is no shortage of opportunities in applied geology and geophysics.
Hence, I like the suggestion that said "can't you do both?". You can. Simultaneously -- and you multiply your fall-back opportunities.
The thing I consider the most important of all is the quality of life, over and above security or average income for a field. Being an electrician is hard work, and electricians, for as much as they can make, are not that scarce, given that the requirements to work in that field open it up to a lot more competitors. On top of that, the work really is, by and large, mundane. Plus, if you're not planning to be a contractor with employees, ways to multiply or have a vested interest in anything you do are limited. You'll just be trading time for money.
My opinion, were I in your position:
Geology/geophysics (Masters), with a minor (BSEE) in electrical engineering. Do that and you're solid gold, set for life.
Geology, you can go work for an oil/gas/mining company. You could probably make at least twice the electrician if you went that route. Also, as others have said, do what you love first and consider money as a distant second (assuming you are not going into huge amounts of debt slavery for schooling).
I was a union apprentice before (not an electrical apprentice) it wasn't for me. I walked away because I worked my side jobs more than I worked union jobs. Maybe being in the union is a good thing if you are buddies with the business agent. Keep in mind if you go the electrician route that you are nothing more than temp, you work if and when they need you.
Can you even get a minor in EE? Hell, most BSEE take 5 years.
You could always combine the fields as an electricians helper: you take shovel and dig trench for conduit; look at pretty rocks.
Last edited by madengr; 06-12-2012 at 09:50 PM.
-Is it possible to get a 'minor' while you are doing a masters degree? I thought minors were for undergrad?
-What are you doing now? Are you still in the geology field?
-Quality of life is important to me as I like to spend time with my family. Are there good opportunities for high paid work with normal family life (fly in fly out on a 2 week away/ 1 week back doesn't really sound like it would be good for family life)?
It would seem to me there would be more jobs for electricians then for geologists...
Electrician, seems like the safer bet.
Note, this is not a fun job.
It is frustratingly unforgivably technical at times mixed with hard physical labor at others times.
You need to seriously consider the fact that you are going to be stuck lugging 100's of lbs of wire, then spend hours crushed into tight 3ft crawl spaces next to steam pipes that make it like 100ºF and 90% humidity while on your back pinning 100's of pins of breadboard...
I tried it for a year as an E2 apprentice, I couldn't take it. Its a brutal job as the low man on the totem pole!
In this state its like 10,000 hours of apprenticeship to get to take the E1 test, that is 250weeks at 40hour weeks, 4.8 years..
Last edited by LibertyRevolution; 06-12-2012 at 11:11 PM.
Where you a union apprentice or non-union? Industrial or residential? Does it make a big difference (I've heard it does)?
Honestly this is so difficult for me. I think I have ADD. I recently worked an office job and I HATED it - I quit after about 6 months. The politics and chit chatter were driving me nuts - there was no one really doing any work. I also HATED being confined to a chair and constantly felt like I needed to get up and move around.
I have heard about the hard working conditions of electricians. To be honest with you, it kind of sounds like it would be fun not having to sit and stare at a computer. However, I suppose the grass is always greener on the other side. I would definitely like to have some energy once I get home from work, which it sounds like I would be coming home drained.
Last edited by TheOraclePaul; 06-13-2012 at 07:58 AM.
The two seem rather unrelated.
Why not become an electrical engineer. Then you can work as an electrician while you build a resume for that good engineering position.
CPT Jack. R. T.
US Army Resigned - Iraq Vet.
Level III MACP instructor, USYKA/WYKKO sensei
Professional Hunter/Trapper/Country living survivalist.
I'd always do what helps me to start my own business / become independent. I don't know if it's more likely to become some kind of independent consultant as a geologist or to start your own business as an electrician but I personally would take that question into consideration along with likely earning potential, working conditions and what I find more interesting.
Dead end job; you'll hit compression before you are 40, as they try to out-source your job to China or India, or in-source you with indentured servants (i.e. H1B).
.....
Last edited by pcgame; 06-23-2012 at 06:55 PM.
There aren't many geologists, most Universities don't even have a geology department anymore.
If I had to do it over again, I'd have done geology, I even had an offer from a head of a GEO department who said he'd get me a scholarship if I went into it (maybe he was scared for his salary because they couldn't get many students - that was at OK State)
Both are good choices I'd say, but if you choose Electrician prepared to get shocked. It's not fun taking a 220.
I say College is pretty much a rip off though(i've learned most of what I know on my own accord) so the apprenticeship sounds like a natural choice.
good luck chap
Last edited by Arklatex; 06-13-2012 at 11:40 AM.
Sorry, I missed the part where you said you had completed your undergrad work, meaning you already have a degree? In what? In the States you can pursue a higher and lower degrees simultaneously, the lower degree being analogous to a 'minor'. I'm not familiar with Australia's higher education system, and don't know how much math and physics you have under your belt, but the question for me would be how many of the credits accumulated along the way could apply and overlap, making a shorter run at two degrees, or one Masters degree with an unusual skill set.
I am an active member of the AGU and the GSA, and have made presentations at annual meetings. But it's not my field, per se. All of my work is self-funded, as an avocation, with no real commercial interests on my part. I just never lost interest (love, really) in geology and geophysics, generally speaking. It's still a frontier, and quite exciting to me. The first four years of my adult working life were spent in mineral and oil exploration fields, but only as an electrical engineer/technical side, from resistivity and magnetometer survey equipment for mineral exploration, to "wireline logging" equipment in the oil field ("tools" with radioactive sources lowered into an open or cased hole at a drilling site). However, I have been self-employed most of my adult life, with most of my time spent serving the semiconductor industry.-What are you doing now? Are you still in the geology field?
I told my son years ago never to look at any field generically, or with a "masses" mindset, except to generally quantify it -- before actually taking a good, hard look. Your job isn't to simply "find a high paying job in a field", but rather to carve out and explore your favorite niche within that field; something that excites you, fits your favorite mode of thinking, working and living, where you can excel in your chosen specialty to the point where your "competition" becomes nothing more than a handful of welcome and relatively few colleagues. And that can be in any field.-Quality of life is important to me as I like to spend time with my family. Are there good opportunities for high paid work with normal family life (fly in fly out on a 2 week away/ 1 week back doesn't really sound like it would be good for family life)?
A geologist out in the sun doing field work; surveying, coring, or taking samples with a rock pick comes to the mind of most who think about geology, and while that happens it is most definitely not the whole picture. Geology was once used as the label that encompasses all the hard geosciences, but it's evolved into kind of a misnomer now, with distinctions between geology and geophysics blurred to the casual observer. Geology is more focused on the empirical and qualitative, studying the composition and history of rock on all scales, while geophysics tends to focus more on quantitative, mathematically driven physics-based models that are more qualitative, less empirical. However, both geology and geophysics have myriad branches, many of which dovetail and crossover, and many of which have virtually no emphasis on field work. It's so specialized in so many cases that the number of opportunities are practically limitless for anyone who actually goes in and studies both fields.
I don't where in Oz you are, but Oceana's IGC is having a giant meeting in a couple of months. If you have the opportunity to attend, and you can get to Brisbane, I think you would find it an enormous eye-opener -- and pay closest attention to the vendors there, as that could also be the source of niche market for you.
http://www.34igc.org/
That's just one - but you can make a lot of friends there, and get invaluable input from a lot of people. Listen especially to the grumblers - the whiners and complainers (most of whom are trapped in academia, dependent on publishing, playing politics, and seeking out the next "funding opportunity"). Then look at the obviously happy ones, and specifically why it is they're happy. There are many, many good opportunities for high paid work with normal family life in all the geosciences. Whatever you do, don't go in without a road map. Quantify it - find your favorite opportunity and specifically target it.
Hey Steven - all great advice! I'm actually a Canadian. I honestly don't know what field of geology I would be interested in - I just started thinking back to my undergrad and that my earth science courses I enjoyed a lot. I think I would prefer to be a biologist but I'm practical enough to realize that you won't make a good living doing that.
I like the idea of geology because it would allow me to live where I want to live in the world: somewhere warm where I can go scuba diving as often as possible. If that is a good enough motivator for me to get the job and work hard, then I will.
Is geology a difficult field? How often do you have to write reports - I feel like that element of it could get boring very quickly? Thanks again.
Remember that while I've worked with hundreds of geologists and geophysicists, I am neither. At least not by degree, as I am mostly self-taught (or taught by those in the field). Again, it depends on the branch of geology you go into, and what role you intend to play in that branch. As an empirical science, it can be documentation intensive. Ultimately, the fruits of your work equates to knowledge, and therefore reports of some kind. But that doesn't necessarily mean that you're busily writing them from day to day (like a cop who has write detailed reports on daily events). Even if you're into something that involves intensive data collection, it could be automated. Or you may end up collecting data while someone else crunches numbers or writes reports.
If you're plugged into the academia vacuum side of geology, the odds of you having to conform dogmatically to a methodology and behave more like a habitual report-writing bureaucrat are definitely increased (even as your value is decreased). Commercial interests tend to be less focused on you being a scribe and more focused on accuracy and actionable information as your end result.
I'm much older now, but if I had it to do all over again, I would take the advice I've given in this thread. And my target would be as an applied geophysicist with an electrical engineering foundation (where you can actually design your own tools, or tools for others). And remember - for as much as I LOVE and respect geology and geologists, it's MUCH easier for a geophysicist to become or be considered a geologist than it is for a geologist to become or be considered a geophysicist. That's mostly because geology is so diverse that much of it can be learned in the field, whereas geophysics requires a math/physics foundation that can't be learned on the job, and must be laid down in classrooms. And there's a definite pecking order to that as a result.
Good luck to you! I sincerely hope that whatever road(s) you take gives you an environment that makes you want to leap out of bed every morning for the rest of your life.
I don't recall reading that in Crashproof; maybe it was one of his later books. I read a recent book, and I'll post the name later when I remember it, that warns all knowledge work is subject to the global race to the bottom. Engineering is no longer a career, rather a job, and a commodity at that, which even IEEE admits. Believe me, if most corporations could have a guy doing integrated circuit design in a dirt floor hut for a bowl of rice a day, they'd be fighting like dogs to outsource the work to maximize the profit for that quarter. I knew a gal that alternated between working as an engineer in an IC fab, and driving a truck; as I said, it's just a job. Look how companies, such as HP who were a world leader in test and measurement, with long term research, have been destroyed, and now produce garbage commodity products.
I'd only recommend going into engineering if you really love messing with circuits, already doing it as a hobby. China is where it's at now; technologically, this country is dead. The whole "we need more STEM graduates" is a sham to eroded the salary base even further.
Last edited by madengr; 06-13-2012 at 09:37 PM.
It was non-union, it was small 2 man company. So it would be me and 2 guys on a big job, but most jobs was just me and one the bosses.
The year I spent we did all retrofit work. No new construction. We did both residential and commercial.
I would pull 90% the wire for the jobsite, I would install all the equipment and boxes.
I would then do all the E2 pinning, security alarms, fire alarms, and the phones, video, network.
That would be what was typical for me to do on a site as an E2 apprentice.
Was I being abused as far as getting stuck on the $#@! end of the stick every time? You bet.
That is what happens when you work for a small business, when its just you and owner, guess who is crawling in that tight hot space?
You know what though, I don't think i would have had it any other way...
I learned a lot, more than I would if I was at some union site with a dozen people on it.
There is something to be said for having 1 on 1 training.
I may not have my E2 cert.. but I can wire alarms, networks, video surveillance, and phones without having to call someone to do it for me.
So either way, I think it was a year well spent, I just couldn't live through 4 more of it..
Do you ever regret not getting fully certified? Based on the work you saw the fully qualified (journeymen) electricians doing, do you think that would have been enjoyable? I understand apprentices perform more manual labor tasks. I want to know I would be working towards something enjoyable though, even if it's a few years down the road.
Demand for geologists is cyclical - depends primarily on drilling. A price collapse will minimize the amount of exploration going on. I know one very experienced geologist, who has not worked in geology in 15 years ....
Out of every one hundred men they send us, ten should not even be here. Eighty will do nothing but serve as targets for the enemy. Nine are real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, upon them depends our success in battle. But one, ah the one, he is a real warrior, and he will bring the others back from battle alive.
Duty is the most sublime word in the English language. Do your duty in all things. You can not do more than your duty. You should never wish to do less than your duty.
My brothers a couple hours away from being a Journeyman electrician and has been unemployed since 2009. He wont move to North Dakota though where there is jobs but no housing.
I'm in sales. I like it, but I've always been independant and couldn't probably handle a normal week for a F500 company. Only problem is sometimes money flows in like clockwork and other times its barley a trickle.
A geologist studies rocks right? Is there a lot of inherent value in that? Is that used to create new things or produce something or is it just something used by other geology teachers in order to teach other geologists how to become geologists (sorta like getting an English degree so that you can go on to become an English teacher so that you can teach others with English degrees to become English teachers)? I am curious as I do not know enough about the field and what they do.
Just about everybody uses electricity. There will always be a need for people who know how to make it work.
Last edited by Elwar; 06-14-2012 at 09:09 AM.
Definition of political insanity: Voting for the same people expecting different results.
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