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Thread: Amash channels Machiavelli

  1. #1

    Default Amash channels Machiavelli

    I definitely agree with our man Justin on this one (from his Facebook page):

    My short time in Congress has convinced me of this simple truth—a truth I did not fully appreciate when I arrived: No amount of congeniality can change the system. A raw desire for power drives the Establishment. They respect you only when they fear you.







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  3. #2

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    Just saw that, I'm sure he's right.
    Well, I got Rand started on his campaign (just search around here to see). I advised Thomas Massie before he ran for Congress. I am currently advising 2 liberty campaigns for the state legislature. I ran the war-room and won Minnesota for Ron Paul a few weeks back. There are other things I'm probably forgetting.
    Yet I can't afford $200 to go to a seminar--Matt Collins

  4. #3

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    Me too. Was coming here to post it.

    Hugs, Justin.
    .[QUOTE]"Every great new thought was opposed. Every great new invention was denounced. The first motor was considered foolish. The airplane was considered impossible. The power loom was considered vicious. Anesthesia was considered sinful. But the men of unborrowed vision went ahead. They fought, they suffered and they paid. But they won." - Ayn Rand, The Fountainhead[/QUOTE]
    ..
    .

    I blog at Red State Eclectic, and I tweet here,.

  5. #4

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    If he were really going all Machiavelli, he wouldn't let anyone know that he feels this way.

    I think it's something that he should have probably kept to himself. I'm not sure what is gained by making this statement.

  6. #5

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    He is right.

    I keep that in mind when Ron says things like not wanting or dreaming about becoming president, etc. It's the reason he was able to spend so many years there in DC without becoming absorbed into the establishment.

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingNothing View Post
    If he were really going all Machiavelli, he wouldn't let anyone know that he feels this way.

    I think it's something that he should have probably kept to himself. I'm not sure what is gained by making this statement.
    What is gained? Other than the reaffirmation that this man is one of the greatest members of the legislative branches that we have? Here is the thing about Liberty candidates. Sometimes they say things not because they stand to gain from saying it, but because it needs to be said.

  8. #7

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    I think he said it and doesn't give a damn what anyone thinks. Let's see if he back-tracks and apologizes or if he sticks to his guns like Ron Paul always did.

    Maybe George Washington jumped in the channel as well:

    "Government is not eloquence. It is not reason. It is force."
    Last edited by nobody's_hero; 06-11-2012 at 08:50 PM.
    If something bad happens, we will be blamed. If something good happens, we will get no credit. If nothing happens, we will be forgotten.

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by jcannon98188 View Post
    What is gained? Other than the reaffirmation that this man is one of the greatest members of the legislative branches that we have? Here is the thing about Liberty candidates. Sometimes they say things not because they stand to gain from saying it, but because it needs to be said.
    Eh, I love him. That doesn't mean the statement was thoughtful though. It was brash. It was emotional. It was personal. Those are things a politician should avoid.

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    I think he said it and doesn't give a damn what anyone thinks. Let's see if he back-tracks and apologizes or if he sticks to his guns like Ron Paul always did.
    He needs to stick with it.

    But he said it in a way that.... I don't know. It seemed rushed, or something. Flippant.

  11. #10

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    Respect and fear aren't the same thing...but Amash gets it right...they only respond to what they fear. It's what Max Stirner wanted...associations of psychopaths only joined by their mutual reverence of each other's ruthlessness. Welcome to unethical Egoism ladies and gentlemen...anomie embraced.

    And we really doubt these people are disproprtionately sociopaths up there? And the reason that's the case is...? Could it be the mechanism draws them like flies to turds?
    Last edited by ProIndividual; 06-11-2012 at 09:20 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xerographica View Post

    Yes, I want to force consumers to buy trampolines, popcorn, environmental protection and national defense whether or not they really demand them. And I definitely want to outlaw all alternatives. Nobody should be allowed to compete with the state. Private security companies, private healthcare, private package delivery, private education, private disaster relief, private militias...should all be outlawed.
    ^Minimalist state socialism (minarchy) taken to its logical conclusions; communism.

  12. #11
    Needs a bigger boat Anti Federalist's Avatar
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    I'm so confused right now.

    I thought playing nice and compromising is how you get ahead.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I'm so confused right now.

    I thought playing nice and compromising is how you get ahead.
    Only if your last name is Paul, then some make an exception. Goes against the philosophy but what the hell?

  14. #13

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    Justin has been stepping up his game lately. I love it.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I'm so confused right now.

    I thought playing nice and compromising is how you get ahead.
    +rep

    You can't defeat the devil at his own game.

  16. #15

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    This is why it is so important to keep the movement growing. Only a massive block of liberty oriented legislatures wielding shear force of numbers fueled by the passions of conviction will ever have the ablity to strick fear in these people. Amash's, Paul's, and Massie's cannot do it alone.
    I am more and more convinced that man is a dangerous creature and that power, whether vested in many or a few, is ever grasping, and like the grave, cries, 'Give, give.'

    Abigail Adams

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I'm so confused right now.

    I thought playing nice and compromising is how you get ahead.
    Different people and candidates will have different methods. Some will be purists and others incrementalists. Everyone has their role to play.

  18. #17
    Needs a bigger boat Anti Federalist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noneedtoaggress View Post
    +rep

    You can't defeat the devil at his own game.
    Yup.

    Playing a rigged game with rigged rules and crooked refs is not going to end well for you.

  19. #18
    Member bxm042's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schiffheadbaby View Post
    Only if your last name is Paul, then some make an exception. Goes against the philosophy but what the hell?
    Shhhh, Rand has a super secret liberty agenda, so secret only Rand knows about it, and sanctions, compromising, etc, and just pissing off all Ron Paul's supporters in general is a carefully calculated trick to gain the everyman's trust so he can win president and then backstab his new establishment supporters with surprise freedom

    It's cool bro, it's all part of the plan
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
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  20. #19

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    Little known fact about Machiavelli: The Prince was dry sarcasm, not a manual.
    “If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”

    - SAMUEL ADAMS

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by bxm042 View Post
    Shhhh, Rand has a super secret liberty agenda, so secret only Rand knows about it, and sanctions, compromising, etc, and just pissing off all Ron Paul's supporters in general is a carefully calculated trick to gain the everyman's trust so he can win president and then backstab his new establishment supporters with surprise freedom

    It's cool bro, it's all part of the plan
    On a forum filled with delusional conspiracy theorists is it really that surprising their are people who believe this?

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingNothing View Post
    If he were really going all Machiavelli, he wouldn't let anyone know that he feels this way.

    I think it's something that he should have probably kept to himself. I'm not sure what is gained by making this statement.
    It's not useful to him politically to say it, but he may feel that it's useful to us as a warning and a firsthand confirmation of what many of us already knew: The world is run by sociopaths.

    Ron has always been too polite to say it so bluntly, and I suspect he's too "innocent" to really absorb the truth for himself. He's rarely judgmental, and he always tries to see the good in people, even (in all apparent sincerity) referring to his opponents as very "honorable" people, when they're anything but.

    It's jarring to really see, to really comprehend, just how depraved and inherently evil some people are. Seeing the mask slip and fully recognizing the significance can be a life-changing experience. People devoid of a conscience are superficially human - uncannily human and appearing to be the model of normality - but completely empty and alien to the rest of us...and I suspect there are significantly more of them than the 4% of so of the population that statistics indicate (they're notoriously deceptive and chameleonlike, and averse to seeking or maintaining treatment). They rely on our disbelief for cover: Most people turn away and refuse to willingly accept the reality of it except in narrow, remote contexts like conceding the existence of Ted Bundy-like psychopaths, but Justin Amash may just be looking into the heart of darkness with full recognition. These are the people who typically seek power. Even if Justin "knew" going in, knowing about it in an abstract sense is different from really feeling it wash over you. For anyone else thinking of following Justin's path someday, it might help to really reflect on his words and internalize them as much as possible. You really can't be prepared enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I'm so confused right now.

    I thought playing nice and compromising is how you get ahead.
    There's no contradiction here. I don't advocate playing nice, but those who do aren't entirely stupid either (except insofar that "playing nice" stirs up trust issues among our base and fails to motivate people like a good old-fashioned battle cry): People don't "play nice" in the hope that the establishment will take pity or respect us (they won't), but so they have less ammo to manipulate the public against us with. I don't think the tradeoff is worth it, but there's no real contradiction.

    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtomator View Post
    Little known fact about Machiavelli: The Prince was dry sarcasm, not a manual.
    Seriously? I did NOT know that...I always assumed he was just cynical and amoral, and I've only read excerpts...I'll have to look into him a little more. Update: Yeah, it actually appears you may be right...talk about a satire being so subtle it went over the audience's heads, though.
    Last edited by Mini-Me; 06-12-2012 at 01:13 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by President John F. Kennedy
    And we must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent nor omniscient. That we are only 6% of the world's population, and that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94% of mankind. That we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity, and that therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.
    I need an education in US history, from the ground up. Can you help point me to a comprehensive, unbiased, scholarly resource?

  23. #22

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by IDefendThePlatform View Post
    I definitely agree with our man Justin on this one (from his Facebook page):

    My short time in Congress has convinced me of this simple truth—a truth I did not fully appreciate when I arrived: No amount of congeniality can change the system. A raw desire for power drives the Establishment. They respect you only when they fear you.




    And this is precisely the reason that we have a Second Amendment. FEAR! If we the people would shout from the roof tops "Give me liberty or give me death" all the while firing wildly into the air with an AK-47. We wouldn't have the problems that we do today.

    Serious: Not kidding.
    I've started a war! A one man crusade against the Faux conservative "Radio Mafia". I will NOT back down, I will not waver, Join me now or get the hell out of my way!!

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtomator View Post
    Little known fact about Machiavelli: The Prince was dry sarcasm, not a manual.
    But at the University of Chicago it is taught with dead seriousness. Machiavelli is the patron saint of the neo-cons. Machiavelli is featured in all of the political science and philosophy readings and U of C students must write many papers on ol' Nick and the students responses are gauged for future placement in the machine. I know--I was there.

    Please move this thread to hot topics with the rest of the depressing signposts on the destruction of the last chance humanity ever had for pure-Rothbardian-Ron-Paulian libertarianism to save it from certain ruin.

  26. #25

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    “it is much safer to be feared than loved because ...love is preserved by the link of obligation which, owing to the baseness of men, is broken at every opportunity for their advantage; but fear preserves you by a dread of punishment which never fails.”
    ― Niccolò Machiavelli, The Prince

  27. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by ProIndividual View Post
    Respect and fear aren't the same thing...but Amash gets it right...they only respond to what they fear. It's what Max Stirner wanted...associations of psychopaths only joined by their mutual reverence of each other's ruthlessness. Welcome to unethical Egoism ladies and gentlemen...anomie embraced.

    And we really doubt these people are disproprtionately sociopaths up there? And the reason that's the case is...? Could it be the mechanism draws them like flies to turds?
    Which is why the government should fear the people. Which it currently doesn't.

  28. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfgang Bohringer View Post
    But at the University of Chicago it is taught with dead seriousness. Machiavelli is the patron saint of the neo-cons. Machiavelli is featured in all of the political science and philosophy readings and U of C students must write many papers on ol' Nick and the students responses are gauged for future placement in the machine. I know--I was there.

    Please move this thread to hot topics with the rest of the depressing signposts on the destruction of the last chance humanity ever had for pure-Rothbardian-Ron-Paulian libertarianism to save it from certain ruin.
    The book hasn't been a staple in poli-sci, business, psychology, and philosophy courses because it is a great example of satire. It's featured so often because the lessons contained within it are useful.

    The book is accurate, regardless of how you feel about how it portrays humans.

  29. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingNothing View Post
    If he were really going all Machiavelli, he wouldn't let anyone know that he feels this way.

    I think it's something that he should have probably kept to himself. I'm not sure what is gained by making this statement.
    Maybe it was said for the sake of his supporters. Maybe it's a shot across the bow of the enemies to let them know he's not going to let them keep screwing with him.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
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  30. #29
    Lone Coyote ClydeCoulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingNothing View Post
    If he were really going all Machiavelli, he wouldn't let anyone know that he feels this way.

    I think it's something that he should have probably kept to himself. I'm not sure what is gained by making this statement.
    Maybe it's not about "gain", maybe it's about letting people know just how bad it is.

    edit: not everyone seeks gain continuosly above all else.
    "When a portion of wealth is transferred from the person who owns it—without his consent and without compensation, and whether by force or by fraud—to anyone who does not own it, then I say that property is violated; that an act of plunder is committed." - Bastiat : The Law

    "nothing evil grows in alcohol" ~ @presence

  31. #30
    Moderatorus Emeritus Cowlesy's Avatar
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    His post means something not-good happened for him either with committee appointments or getting legislation passed, I imagine.

    Let us know how we can help, Justin.
    "Your mother's dead, before long I'll be dead, and you...and your brother and your sister and all of her children, all of us dead, all of us..rotting in the ground. It's the family name that lives on. It's all that lives on. Not your personal glory, not your honor, but family." - Tywin Lannister


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