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Thread: [Video] Rand Paul On the Record w/ Greta talking about ending Pakistani aid

  1. #1

    [Video] Rand Paul On the Record w/ Greta talking about ending Pakistani aid




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  4. #3
    From 2:00 on, Rand Paul brings the philosophy of peace and non-intervention to the masses of braindead Fox News viewers.

    The keyboard warriors on here who question Rand should be ashamed of themselves.

  5. #4
    By the way, this thread has been up for hours and it has only received 48 views. This confirms, as we see in other threads, that most people attack Rand from a position of ignorance. They don't even know what his votes are, they don't listen to his arguments, and they don't care to look in to it. They are fine with getting all of their information from leftist blogs.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    By the way, this thread has been up for hours and it has only received 48 views. This confirms, as we see in other threads, that most people attack Rand from a position of ignorance. They don't even know what his votes are, they don't listen to his arguments, and they don't care to look in to it. They are fine with getting all of their information from leftist blogs.
    I'm convinced that most of them don't have even close to the same goals as Dr. Paul, let alone Rand.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    I'm convinced that most of them don't have even close to the same goals as Dr. Paul, let alone Rand.
    Yep. Many people (some people here too) are not sophisticated enough to understand the political motivations of the anti-Rand machine. The anti-Rand machine will try from any and every angle (even from a pseudo-liberty angle) to destroy Rand before 2016. They know what he represents and they know he is a serious threat to this evil corporatocracy.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    I'm convinced that most of them don't have even close to the same goals as Dr. Paul, let alone Rand.
    I'm convinced, that most of us are convinced that Rand's argumentation is heinously flawed, and bearing on so weak as to damage any credibility, and indeed, does damage to the philosophy at the very least. I've never seen Rand give the argument that there is no authorization anywhere either ethically, or legally to steal from the individual American to give to any person, let alone any other country. He doesn't even call it what it is - BRIBERY (with stolen money). So, no, I'm not too enthused with this sort of drivel. Ethics and morals aren't about merely the consequences, or actions, but the reasoning and thought-process that goes into the justification for those actions.

    This fundamental thesis is the reason why liberalism (libertarianism) ended up almost relished to the dustbin of history because of people like Mill, Bentham, and the rest (see: Rand following their ridiculously bad argumentation and flawed syllogisms). Yeah, those criticism's don't mean squat to the unthinking supporters, but to many of us they are very important. I am dismayed when I see the cognitive dissonance of Obama supporters who value peace, or civil liberties, and rationalize to themselves. I see the same traits in many Rand supporters. I am sure Rand knows this too. I presume he is either too tepid or he doesn't believe in what he used to profess any more. In either case, Rand...not so good.

    (Seriously, this is without going into about five flawed statements Rand presented in this interview) Seems like McCain and Graham and the gang been rubbing off on him.
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  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Austrian Econ Disciple View Post
    I'm convinced, that most of us are convinced that Rand's argumentation is heinously flawed, and bearing on so weak as to damage any credibility, and indeed, does damage to the philosophy at the very least. I've never seen Rand give the argument that there is no authorization anywhere either ethically, or legally to steal from the individual American to give to any person, let alone any other country. He doesn't even call it what it is - BRIBERY (with stolen money). So, no, I'm not too enthused with this sort of drivel. Ethics and morals aren't about merely the consequences, or actions, but the reasoning and thought-process that goes into the justification for those actions.

    This fundamental thesis is the reason why liberalism (libertarianism) ended up almost relished to the dustbin of history because of people like Mill, Bentham, and the rest (see: Rand following their ridiculously bad argumentation and flawed syllogisms). Yeah, those criticism's don't mean squat to the unthinking supporters, but to many of us they are very important. I am dismayed when I see the cognitive dissonance of Obama supporters who value peace, or civil liberties, and rationalize to themselves. I see the same traits in many Rand supporters. I am sure Rand knows this too. I presume he is either too tepid or he doesn't believe in what he used to profess any more. In either case, Rand...not so good.

    (Seriously, this is without going into about five flawed statements Rand presented in this interview) Seems like McCain and Graham and the gang been rubbing off on him.
    So basically, you agree with me. You could have summed that up in just a few words.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    So basically, you agree with me. You could have summed that up in just a few words.
    If you ever stopped with the fallacious logic for a moment you might learn a thing or two. You've turned into one of the worst trolls on RPF.

    Here, let me help you with how you sound:

    Last edited by Austrian Econ Disciple; 05-31-2012 at 12:12 AM.
    School of Salamanca - School of Austrian Economics - Liberty, Private Property, Free-Markets, Voluntaryist, Agorist. le monde va de lui mÍme

    "No man hath power over my rights and liberties, and I over no mans [sic]."

    What, sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty.

    www.mises.org
    www.antiwar.com
    An Arrow Against all Tyrants - Richard Overton vis. 1646 (Required reading!)

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Austrian Econ Disciple View Post
    I'm convinced, that most of us are convinced that Rand's argumentation is heinously flawed, and bearing on so weak as to damage any credibility, and indeed, does damage to the philosophy at the very least. I've never seen Rand give the argument that there is no authorization anywhere either ethically, or legally to steal from the individual American to give to any person, let alone any other country. He doesn't even call it what it is - BRIBERY (with stolen money). So, no, I'm not too enthused with this sort of drivel. Ethics and morals aren't about merely the consequences, or actions, but the reasoning and thought-process that goes into the justification for those actions.

    This fundamental thesis is the reason why liberalism (libertarianism) ended up almost relished to the dustbin of history because of people like Mill, Bentham, and the rest (see: Rand following their ridiculously bad argumentation and flawed syllogisms). Yeah, those criticism's don't mean squat to the unthinking supporters, but to many of us they are very important. I am dismayed when I see the cognitive dissonance of Obama supporters who value peace, or civil liberties, and rationalize to themselves. I see the same traits in many Rand supporters. I am sure Rand knows this too. I presume he is either too tepid or he doesn't believe in what he used to profess any more. In either case, Rand...not so good.

    (Seriously, this is without going into about five flawed statements Rand presented in this interview) Seems like McCain and Graham and the gang been rubbing off on him.
    I agree with pretty much everything you say here. These utilitarian arguments suck in my opinion and they are not convincing or moving to me in any way. But I still see some value in these ideas at least being presented to the sheep who have Greta playing in the background while they stare and drool at the boob toob with their brain on flatline.

    By the way, criticisms like yours AED, are criticisms I RESPECT. Your criticism are the right ones. The kids who come on here and say "Rand is a neocon" I have no respect for.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    From 2:00 on, Rand Paul brings the philosophy of peace and non-intervention to the masses of braindead Fox News viewers.

    The keyboard warriors on here who question Rand should be ashamed of themselves.
    I'm glad to see Rand do this. I'm also disappointed to see him do other things. It's possible to have a nuanced view of a politician.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    By the way, this thread has been up for hours and it has only received 48 views.
    10:58 to 12:38 is 1 hour and 40 minutes, and besides, it's late at night. There's fewer people posting. Why is this particular thread the important one? The Greta video has been posted in other threads about this topic.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by kylejack View Post
    I'm glad to see Rand do this. I'm also disappointed to see him do other things. It's possible to have a nuanced view of a politician.
    True...but I dont see the nuance all the time. Let's face it, the Rand Paul forum is like a desert with tumbleweeds rolling around. The only long Rand threads are the ones where the sheeple pile on him and say ridiculous things like "he's not good on civil liberties" or "he's a neocon". I mean....let's have a little bit of perspective here.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Austrian Econ Disciple View Post
    I'm convinced, that most of us are convinced that Rand's argumentation is heinously flawed, and bearing on so weak as to damage any credibility, and indeed, does damage to the philosophy at the very least. I've never seen Rand give the argument that there is no authorization anywhere either ethically, or legally to steal from the individual American to give to any person, let alone any other country. He doesn't even call it what it is - BRIBERY (with stolen money). So, no, I'm not too enthused with this sort of drivel. Ethics and morals aren't about merely the consequences, or actions, but the reasoning and thought-process that goes into the justification for those actions.

    This fundamental thesis is the reason why liberalism (libertarianism) ended up almost relished to the dustbin of history because of people like Mill, Bentham, and the rest (see: Rand following their ridiculously bad argumentation and flawed syllogisms). Yeah, those criticism's don't mean squat to the unthinking supporters, but to many of us they are very important. I am dismayed when I see the cognitive dissonance of Obama supporters who value peace, or civil liberties, and rationalize to themselves. I see the same traits in many Rand supporters. I am sure Rand knows this too. I presume he is either too tepid or he doesn't believe in what he used to profess any more. In either case, Rand...not so good.

    (Seriously, this is without going into about five flawed statements Rand presented in this interview) Seems like McCain and Graham and the gang been rubbing off on him.
    Rand is simply chipping away at foreign aid here as part of a longer term strategy to sway public opinion away from interventionism and build his brand name. I chuckle at people on the forums that seem to want Rand to play the game with one hand tied behind his back in a nest of alligators. Have you not been paying attention to what Rand has been doing in the Senate? He has called out both sides of the aisle. He's as likely to provoke John McCain into a blood vessel bursting tirade as Barbara Boxer. He has called the Ryan Budget useless, called for a balanced budget amendment, has offered a 3 year balanced budget, proposed legislation to end the TSA, proposed legislation to disempower the FDA, blasted the EPA in senate hearings, assaulted onerous business regulations in senate hearings, has railed from the highest mountain tops against the patriot act, called for a full audit of the Fed, called for troops to only be committed upon a congressional declaration of war, has called for an end to foreign aid (including to Israel), has called for all regulations to sunset and only be reinstated upon legislative review and approval, and on and on and on.

    So, while I respect your right to say that Rand is "not so good," I believe that an unbiased assessment would bring us to an opposite conclusion. We are seeing an idealist bring his platform into existence in the most vile and corrupt of environments, with 100 million brain washed voters that need to be carefully spoon fed, and a media that has to be navigated like a mine field at Omaha Beach. The guy is crafty as a fox and a political genius.
    Last edited by anaconda; 05-31-2012 at 01:00 AM.

  17. #15
    From what I remember of Rand when he started doing his media interviews during his senate run, he tried to take the more nuanced and philosophical approach...and it was a failure, because he simply could not break through the wall. He didn't use the word "bribe" here but spelled out exactly what it is. Buying friendship, using money to alter the behavior of a recipient. I think what he tried to show was the absurdity of the situation--to stimulate the question, for what purpose are we behaving this way? The common justification given is fundamentally a hypocritical one--and that is highlighted. But that kind of approach doesn't work as well if you spell out the answer completely, because it is meant to induce questioning/thought in the listener.
    Last edited by July; 05-31-2012 at 08:56 AM.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by jct74 View Post
    Great video! What some folks here don't get is that when you're dealing with a dumbed down general population, you have to at least start with a place where you can agree. In the echo chamber that is RPF it's hard to fathom how off the average American, conservative or otherwise, is regarding foreign policy. During the Bush years I pointed out on a forum overrun by idiot neocons that we had invaded a country that had nothing to do with 9/11 (Iraq) but we were giving money to a country with clear links to 9/11, had tried to share nuclear technology with Al Qaeda[2] and that had admittedly funneled money to Al Qaeda post 9/11. (Pakistan). When I pointed this out to these idiots and said we should cut off foreign aid, their response was "So you want to bomb Pakistan?" They might be more open to the foreign aid argument now that Obama is president. My main regret is that this move is just happening now post the corrupt Mussharaf regime. Yeah talking about high minded "principles" is nice. But sometimes you have to start with the consequences and in order to get people to see the bigger principles at stake.

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    [2] http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/FF04Df05.html
    [3] http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4249525.stm
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  20. #17
    Rand is being smart. He is being a politician. Lets face it, Ron is not a good politician and some would say that's a good thing.

    But in the world we live in, you must be a smart POLITICIAN to actually get things done. If Rand can successfully change people's minds by chipping away, then so be it.

    If any of you think Rand can just go all out and adopt Ron's positions and expect results, I would just point to Ron right now and say, "look how successful it's been."

    You have to be practical, and some people (rightfully their opinion) don't believe in that. They believe in absolutes. Well, there world doesn't run on absolutes, sorry.

    I fully expect all the anarchists to come after me and try and wise talk me with all their philosophical mumbo jumbo. The fact of the matter is, philosophy isn't always practical.
    Last edited by No Free Beer; 05-31-2012 at 09:36 AM.
    "I am, therefore I'll think" - Ayn Rand

  21. #18
    Rand is simply taking Ron's principled foreign policy message and explaining it logically, making it more palatable for the masses. Rand has a plan! Great job Rand.

  22. #19
    I choose not to pay attention to rand because its painful to watch him try and explain stuff the to FOX news crowd. I can feel him walking a tightrope of words. The only thing that strikes me is he sometimes make statements that go to far to the "base" like Obama's views on marriage being "gayer". I don't think that very liberty minded and didn't like it at all. I would rather him accidently say things that go to far into the liberty realm that go to far into the typical republican realm. I know he means well, I just don't like his presentation. With Rand I would rather ignore him most of the time and only pay attention to his votes.

  23. #20
    No Free Beer, I agree Rand is trying to put principles into more practical action, but I think that Ron and Rand's different approaches are not mutually exclusive... Both have value. There is the watering down on one end of the extreme, and perfectionism on the other which can lead sometimes to inaction or apathy. This is why the left/right paradigm keeps people chasing their own tails indefinitely.
    Last edited by July; 05-31-2012 at 10:07 AM.



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