Anyone else object to being called "Libertarian"?

[Zach Vega]

I'm cool with it.

[cheapseats]

Yer off in lala land. When I spend thee months on an oil painting or 4000 hours writing and creating assets for an MMORPG that is not thought, that is production using my hands and brains with a special talent partly gifted and partly gained through years and years of dedication.. People expect to be paid for production but you clowns treat my personal work like I do it for free because I love everybody, whilst I turn into a skeleton and die of starvation. Fuck ya all. . You people are knee jerked. This is another reason I am not chill with Libertarians. This kind of word twisting disingenuous crap. Your fellow bogus philosophers and will twist reality to have it outcome to your philosophy. . You cannot win this argument with me. It is real world and not a bunch of half wit undedicated semantics tied to an illusory philosophy..

Consider your bogus arguments dick is in the dirt. I don't buy it one iota. It has NO LEGS to stand on and comes from a bogus position to start.. All you did was reinforce my original premise. Note for those slow..he is claiming my work is free because i thought about it prior to producing it. So..Crotale..when yer transmission on yer car goes it do you get the mechanic to fix it for free or do you have to pay. I guarantee your answer to this is loaded to the max with hypocrisy.

Rev9

COMPLETELY agree...the outrageous and self-serving notion of "freedom" to peddle copies of other people's idiosyncratic, free-standing, fixed-form original WORK is exactly that, OUTRAGEOUS AND SELF-SERVING. Usually tho not always, the "belief" is held by people who never had an original idea in their lives and likely won't.

That said, YOU are in la-la land (I hope you don't think you coined that phrase, or THOROUGHLY MODERN MILLIE) if you think there are no REPUBLICAN Ron Paul Supporters who oppose copyright protection. They're just keepin' quiet, 'cuz they don't want their Heavy Hitters jumping off the NO ONE BUT RON PAUL AS A REPUBLICAN & FAILING THAT, REPUBLICAN GAINS little red wagon.

[Xhin]

@Rev9

I don't think anyone is arguing that you have to produce for free. Most of the issue people have with IP is that it protects distributors, NOT content producers. In fact it can bite the actual content producers in the ass if they sign up with a bad distributor. As for actual ideas, yeah, once you use them to create something, you should no longer have rights to the idea itself, just to your specific implementation of it. If you want to retain rights to an idea, then you make sure you find your own unique niche that your competitors won't be able to touch.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

There's plenty of disagreement among libertarians on that subject. I'd say most libertarians I've known believe in intellectual property rights.

Nah, it's the opposite from my experiences. Anyway, 'intellectual property' is antithetical to the philosophy of liberty. Most libertarians do not support government-enforced coercive monopolies of ideas.

That might have something to do with where we are located. I'm talking about real life people I've met, and they were mostly located in the "bread basket" of America. In fact, I shouldn't just say "most libertarians I've known believe in intellectual property rights," but I should call it an "overwhelming majority." Many view intellectual property as "property," and then apply their libertarian ideals from there.

[Elwar]

The first thing you should ask yourself is, do you object to being called a libertarian because they are lumping you into a collective even though you are an individual?

Or is it because the term "libertarian" may have some bad conotations? And if it does, who do you think has given it that bad name?

In its most basic, the term refers to those who support liberty. Liberty being freedom from arbitrary or despotic government.

Why would someone object to being referred to as someone who is against arbitrary or despotic government? Unless you have been trained to object to it.


First and foremost, I am an individual. I have my own thoughts and ideals. When someone puts a label on me it tells me more about them than it does about me.

[Narmical]

Yer off in lala land. When I spend thee months on an oil painting or 4000 hours writing and creating assets for an MMORPG that is not thought, that is production using my hands and brains with a special talent partly gifted and partly gained through years and years of dedication.. People expect to be paid for production but you clowns treat my personal work like I do it for free because I love everybody, whilst I turn into a skeleton and die of starvation. Fuck ya all. . You people are knee jerked. This is another reason I am not chill with Libertarians. This kind of word twisting disingenuous crap. Your fellow bogus philosophers and will twist reality to have it outcome to your philosophy. . You cannot win this argument with me. It is real world and not a bunch of half wit undedicated semantics tied to an illusory philosophy..

Consider your bogus arguments dick is in the dirt. I don't buy it one iota. It has NO LEGS to stand on and comes from a bogus position to start.. All you did was reinforce my original premise. Note for those slow..he is claiming my work is free because i thought about it prior to producing it. So..Crotale..when yer transmission on yer car goes it do you get the mechanic to fix it for free or do you have to pay. I guarantee your answer to this is loaded to the max with hypocrisy.

Rev9

For what its worth, copyright and patent protection do not cover the fashion industry. There are plenty of creative people working hard and getting payed in that field. You didn't say it, but you strongly implied that no one would pay you (or anyone else) to do what you do if not for IP laws. Which is clearly false.

On another note, patent protection does extend to Jewelry. However, because jewelry has been around for thousands of years, its next to impossible to prove your work is new and thus de facto there is no protection. I don't see that stopping the jewelry market.

Therefore I conclude that copyright and patent are not required for a creative industry to flourish as there are two counter examples.

[Revolution9]

COMPLETELY agree...the outrageous and self-serving notion of "freedom" to peddle copies of other people's idiosyncratic, free-standing, fixed-form original WORK is exactly that, OUTRAGEOUS AND SELF-SERVING. Usually tho not always, the "belief" is held by people who never had an original idea in their lives and likely won't.

That said, YOU are in la-la land (I hope you don't think you coined that phrase, or THOROUGHLY MODERN MILLY) if you think there are no REPUBLICAN Ron Paul Supporters who oppose copyright protection. They're just keepin' quiet, 'cuz they don't want their Heavy Hitters jumping off the NO ONE BUT RON PAUL AS A REPUBLICAN & FAILING THAT, REPUBLICAN GAINS little red wagon.

You mistake me for a Republican. I am an artist, writer, inventor, programmer, scientist and musician.. Lately I am becoming a mathematician. And soon electronics. I have never defined myself by a political party. I define myself by my personal abilities.

Rev9

[cheapseats]

Yer off in lala land. When I spend thee months on an oil painting or 4000 hours writing and creating assets for an MMORPG that is not thought, that is production using my hands and brains with a special talent partly gifted and partly gained through years and years of dedication.. People expect to be paid for production but you clowns treat my personal work like I do it for free because I love everybody, whilst I turn into a skeleton and die of starvation. Fuck ya all. . You people are knee jerked. This is another reason I am not chill with Libertarians. This kind of word twisting disingenuous crap. Your fellow bogus philosophers and will twist reality to have it outcome to your philosophy. . You cannot win this argument with me. It is real world and not a bunch of half wit undedicated semantics tied to an illusory philosophy..

Consider your bogus arguments dick is in the dirt. I don't buy it one iota. It has NO LEGS to stand on and comes from a bogus position to start.. All you did was reinforce my original premise. Note for those slow..he is claiming my work is free because i thought about it prior to producing it. So..Crotale..when yer transmission on yer car goes it do you get the mechanic to fix it for free or do you have to pay. I guarantee your answer to this is loaded to the max with hypocrisy.

Rev9

For what its worth, copyright and patent protection do not cover the fashion industry. There are plenty of creative people working hard and getting payed in that field. You didn't say it, but you strongly implied that no one would pay you (or anyone else) to do what you do if not for IP laws. Which is clearly false.

On another note, patent protection does extend to Jewelry. However, because jewelry has been around for thousands of years, its next to impossible to prove your work is new and thus de facto there is no protection. I don't see that stopping the jewelry market.

Therefore I conclude that copyright and patent are not required for a creative industry to flourish as there are two counter examples.

Because KNOCK-OFFS...an imperceptibly different cut, a cheap zipper here, some gold plating there...are a thriving sector of the FASHION & ACCESSORY INDUSTRY, people should also be "free" to profitably reproduce and disseminate YOUR original work. It's GOOD FOR THE ECONOMY, dontcha know.

got eminent domain?

[Revolution9]

For what its worth, copyright and patent protection do not cover the fashion industry. There are plenty of creative people working hard and getting payed in that field. You didn't say it, but you strongly implied that no one would pay you (or anyone else) to do what you do if not for IP laws. Which is clearly false.

On another note, patent protection does extend to Jewelry. However, because jewelry has been around for thousands of years, its next to impossible to prove your work is new and thus de facto there is no protection. I don't see that stopping the jewelry market.

Therefore I conclude that copyright and patent are not required for a creative industry to flourish as there are two counter examples.

I don't work in the fashion field and have no desire to. I understand copyright and patents quite well and am glad to have them in place. And ya know.. distributors distribute an artists product, whether it is a game, painting, illustration, logo, portariture and I am quite willing to pay them for that. I am not willing to have my hard work ripped off and resold to the marketplace by someone who didn't pay me a thin dime for using my work. Yet you advocate that and by proxy large corporations stepping all over the independent garage tinkerer who can steal their design the moment they get their mitts on it with no consequences. Basically you espouse an economy of burger flippers and CEO's. How fucking freedom loving is that?? You want to kill my ability to create freedom for myself economically. You guys put no thought experiment at all into your blitherfests.

Rev9

[Revolution9]

Because KNOCK-OFFS...an imperceptibly different cut, a cheap zipper here, some gold plating there...are a thriving sector of the FASHION & ACCESSORY INDUSTRY, people should also be "free" to profitably reproduce and disseminate YOUR original work. It's GOOD FOR THE ECONOMY, dontcha know.

got eminent domain?

They can try to copy my work. Hell. Vallejo made a fortune copying Frank Frazetta. Copying is not reproducing a facsimile of it. I would be furious if someone downloaded my work, made posters and sold them without asking or offering me a percentage. I am liable to kick his ass up and down the block for utter disrespect. Yet this is precisely what you advocate and the shill along a bit with the copying "look over there" gambit. I don't buy it/.

Rev9