I had to do this back in high school. I'm too embarrassed to tell you who was #1.
Rand Paul 2016
One of my all-time favorite topics!!
BEST
-George Washington (precedent setter; not perfect but could easily have become elected king, governed with restraint instead)
-Martin Van Buren (gold and silver advocate; deregulation; non-interventionist; refused to intervene in/exacerbate Panic of 1837)
-John Tyler (antiwar; refused to support huge public works spending and a new national bank and got basically kicked out of Whig Party as a result)
-Rutherford Hayes (noninterventionist; insisted on keeping gold standard; paid down debt; kept federal govt out of labor issues; pro-voting rights for blacks)
-Grover Cleveland (big believer in separation of powers; tried to discourage early American imperialism; tight monetary policy; cut spending)
WORST
-James Polk (picked a fight with Mexico for land; almost started simultaneous war with British for land in northwest U.S.; expanded executive power)
-William McKinley (big-time imperialist; aggressive foreign policy that set the tone for 20th century; Spanish-American War)
-Woodrow Wilson (probably the worst; foreign intervention; supported income tax; tried for League of Nations; cracked down on civil liberties; the Fed; racist)
-Harry Truman ("containment" was wasteful and belligerent; federal govt involved in labor disputes; supported compulsory health insurance, mandatory military service, and federal housing)
-George W. Bush (Iraq; other foreign intervention; PATRIOT Act and widespread civil liberties violations; torture; bailouts; unfunded Medicare expansion; general incompetence)
-Guess we can officially put Obama in here too.
UNDERRATED
-Warren Harding (scandal and corruption didn't really affect his policies)
-Jimmy Carter (gets a bad rap from conservatives; deregulated more than Reagan; appointed Volcker as Fed chairman; tried to be anti-war)
OVERRATED (pretty much all the "greats" are grossly overrated but these two really rely on charisma and perception rather than accomplishments)
-Ronald Reagan (talked the talk, didn't walk the walk; Iran-Contra was among worst constitutional violations ever; big spender; gets too much credit for winning Cold War)
-John F. Kennedy (Bay of Pigs; escalated Vietnam; missile crisis)
I love talking about this. A really good book on the topic is "Recarving Rushmore" by Ivan Eland. It's recommended by Ron Paul, Tom Woods, and others, and profiles each president from a constitutional standpoint.
"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds." -- Samuel Adams
There is nothing more powerful than an idea whose time has come.
True but Coolidge and Harding both also expanded the money supply excessively which led to the Great Depression. They have to lose a few points for that. Coolidge in particular can't be blamed for the length and severity of the Depression but he can be partially faulted for creating the conditions that allowed it to begin.Originally Posted by WilliamShrugged
"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds." -- Samuel Adams
There is nothing more powerful than an idea whose time has come.
I am fully convinced JFK always wanted to do good for us and did what he thought at the time was best. He is the only president in probably the last 80 years that wasn't a puppet.
I am the spoon.
Bush 2 and Obama are bad, but I can't see putting them among the five worst, if only because the scale of their wars is so much smaller.
I would rank the five worst like this:
1. FDR
2. Lincoln
3. Wilson
4. Nixon
5. LBJ
"Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem."
Ronald Reagan, 1981
My #2 and #3 used to be Bill Clinton and FDR. Now you can share your shameI had to do this back in high school. I'm too embarrassed to tell you who was #1.
I am the spoon.
Ok someone needs to buy me a copy of Recarving Rushmore. I'll settle for a used copy
http://www.amazon.com/Recarving-Rush...7651061&sr=1-1
Definitely on my list the next time I buy some books.
I am the spoon.
So what they teach us in public school about Harding and Coolidge is actually correct?
I am the spoon.
Well, not really still. As I remember the textbook version of the 20s is that businesses were allowed to get out of control and that speculation and lack of regulation caused the Depression. The underlying issues with the monetary supply are rarely mentioned; it's the usual narrative of business bad, government coming in to save the day. Without access to all the easy credit though, a lot of the other problems would have been avoided.
"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds." -- Samuel Adams
There is nothing more powerful than an idea whose time has come.
Austrian school economists LOVE Hardings.
But did the President's really have a big influence over credit?
The federal government under their leadership, through the Fed. The rapid expansion of the money supply couldn't have happened without the Fed, so Wilson gets some blame too.
"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds." -- Samuel Adams
There is nothing more powerful than an idea whose time has come.
Didn't Ronald Reagen help start the drug war?
Worst president ever was Lyndon B. Johnson. Possibly in the top 20 worst human beings to ever live.
He was an absolute degenerate, lying, cheating, murdering, scumbag. It amazes me that liberals put him on a pedastal.
Last edited by Supernaut; 05-21-2012 at 09:08 PM.
Harding was probably the best president of the 20th century.
JFK seems to be a playboy that was thrust out of the Matrix and actually tried to stop the Empire.President Warren G. Harding understood that depressions were the unavoidable result of speculative bubbles created by monetary inflation. As Harding explained, “There will be depression after inflation, just as surely as the tides ebb and flow.” [iii] The painful liquidation of unsound money and unsound businesses created by Woodrow Wilson’s foolish intervention in World War I was not only unavoidable but necessary if the economy was ever to return to a sustainable path.
Under President Harding, there would be no huge government bailouts to save failing businesses or banks, no grand federal make-work programs to employ the unemployed, no massive regulation of the economy to reign in the markets, stifle investment or impede trade. Most important, there would be no major wars started to stimulate production of useless war materials or to destroy “surplus labor.” Though then-Secretary of Commerce Herbert Hoover urged the President to take drastic action to fight the depression, Harding largely brushed Hoover’s exhortations aside. Though Harding did humor his Commerce Secretary by calling for a White House Conference on Unemployment, Harding cautioned the conferees regarding the use of federal funds declaring, “The excess stimulation from that source is to be reckoned a cause of trouble rather than a source of cure.” [iv]
Harding was not entirely passive, however. To fight the recession, he called on Congress to dramatically reduce both taxes and spending. Under Harding, federal spending was cut from $6.3 billion in 1920 to $5 billion in 1921 and to $3.2 billion in 1922. Federal taxes were also reduced from $6.6 billion in 1920 to $5.5 billion in 1921 and to $4 billion in 1922 with budget surpluses each year used to reduce the federal debt. [v]
The results were astounding. By 1922, GNP had recovered to $74.6 billion and unemployment fell by nearly 50% to 2.8 million (6.7%). By 1926 with Harding’s Vice President, Calvin Coolidge, in the White House, unemployment had fallen even further to 1.8% (the lowest rate ever recorded in peacetime). Unfortunately, behind the scenes the Federal Reserve was already in the process of inflating yet another monetary bubble. This new bubble would burst (as all bubbles do) in the famous crash of 1929. By this time, Harding was dead and Coolidge in retirement. Having learned nothing from Harding and Coolidge, President Hoover proceeded to raise taxes, increase spending, intervene massively in the economy and the rest is, well, mythology.
There is no spoon.
[QUOTE=Supernaut;4443154]Worst president ever was Lyndon B. Johnson. Possibly in the top 20 worst human beings to ever live.
He was an absolute degenerate, lying, cheating, murdering, scumbag. It amazes me that liberals put him on a pedastal.[/QUOTE
Worse than FDR and Lincoln? I dun't think so...JMO.
I agree with the JFK part. His daddy promised the elites he would be a good little puppet...but he wasn't
Thanks for the Harding info. Sounds like he did a great job.
Last edited by John F Kennedy III; 05-21-2012 at 11:31 PM.
I am the spoon.
[QUOTE=heavenlyboy34;4443216]Boy they sure set the bar didn't they?
I am the spoon.
Uh... NO.Because I am highly interested in knowing the actual truth about the presidents instead of the BS we are taught in school. So what I would like to know is what each president has done while in office and who has actually done their job properly.
Like for instance George W. Bush and Obama rank at the bottom and we can summarize what they have done. I think JFK should be pretty high and FDR should also be around the bottom. Other than that I don't really know.
So 1-44. Let's get started
"The disbanding of all national armed forces and the prohibition of their reestablishments in any form whatsoever other than those required for internal order and for contributions to a United Nations Peace Force...."
http://home.hiwaay.net/~becraft/Pub7277.htm
http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/...xcept_the.html
Last edited by LibertyEagle; 05-22-2012 at 01:07 AM.
================
Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.
Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America
The Property Basis of Rights
Just curious, when was the last time we had a legitimately good president? Someone who was small government, low regulations, anti-war president?
I know every president in my life has been crap 31 years, but everything else I know about presidents before that came from my history books. Anyone who has ever read a history book knows that ALL U.S. presidents are considered great presidents. For example, FDR is considered a great president for getting us through the great depression. But anyone with a brain knows that if FDR was actually great he wouldn't have let the depression become great and there actually would have been a recovery.
From what I understand Vietnam had long been in the works and this is one area Johnson was essentially just carrying on plans he already agreed with JFK. Remember JFK was a huge anti-Communist.
Coolidge.
[QUOTE=heavenlyboy34;4443216]Compared with the Presidents we've had this century Lincoln looks like Ron Paul, or at least Ronald Reagan. Johnson was a scumbag. FDR was a fascist. But the worst of the century, if not ever? I'd give that to Woodrow Wilson. The man was a fascist dictator in everything but name. He took the abuses of power we always complain about with Lincoln and FDR to the Nth degree.
Everything I have been hearing about Harding on these boards has made me like him more and more. I guess there is the corruption problem he had, but besides that, did he have any major downsides, liberty wise of course.
Martin Van Buren was an a-hole who allowed for the legal extermination (I'm not even exaggerating. Look up "Missouri Extermination Order) of a people based on their religion to take place, for them to be driven from their homes, and for their property and civil rights to be taken away. Disgusting.
And Carter? He CREATED the Department of Education. That is why he gets a bad rap from conservatives. he created one of the single most intrusive government departments that is responsible for molding the minds of your children according to the Fedgov's dictates. The man deserves every bad word said about him.
Did they? Or did the Fed?
Yes it does. An invasion is the uninvited presence of armed forces within a territorial boundary. You might argue Washington invaded their private property but he didn't invade the state since the state asked him to be there.
And yes they were in armed revolt over taxes. But that doesn't mean that they weren't in armed revolt and used armed force first.
I might be remembering wrong, but I thought JFK was trying to get us out of Vietnam?
I am the spoon.
The first use of force was by the tax collector, not by the people who refused to pay the tax. It's very strange how the same ideas used to justify the Revolutionary War against Britain are suddenly forbidden when applied to the US government. Even the founders themselves turned from the founding principles, once they were the ones in power.
Do you not believe in concepts like nullification, secession, self determination, and voluntary association?
A quote from 1848. Obviously he changed his mind a few years later.
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