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Thread: Group Project: Let's Rank The Presidents and Summarize Their Presidencies

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    Default Group Project: Let's Rank The Presidents and Summarize Their Presidencies

    Because I am highly interested in knowing the actual truth about the presidents instead of the BS we are taught in school. So what I would like to know is what each president has done while in office and who has actually done their job properly.

    Like for instance George W. Bush and Obama rank at the bottom and we can summarize what they have done. I don't think JFK should be as high as I used to and FDR should also be around the bottom. Also I've learned some awful things about Lincoln.

    Here's a list of the presidents and their summaries:

    George Washington-All star first cabinet. Set the two term precedent. not really a libertarian, unfortunately (he signed on to Hamilton's national bank and whiskey tax bills), but still a genuine believer in the rule of law and not of men, who had every opportunity to be a king or an emperor, but refused, set a powerful precedent against such usurpation, and in so doing gave the United States the opportunity to endure as the freest nation on Earth for many decades. He was also admirably non-interventionist in foreign affairs, and codified it in his farewell address, which has served as a rallying point against imperialism in the centuries since.

    John Adams-
    Thomas Jefferson-an utter genius, and one of the very greatest proto-libertarian thinkers and leaders. During his presidency, he oversaw the abolition of all internal taxes, the scaling back of the military and federal workforce, the repeal of the Alien and Sedition Acts, the banning of the trans-Atlantic slave trade, and the reduction of the national debt by a third-- the government was operating on nothing but tariffs, land sales and postage stamps, and still running a surplus. On the downside, he did (by his own admission) ultimately break with strict constructionism in his actions relating to the Louisiana Purchase, and the Embargo Act of 1807 which he pushed as a means of pressuring Europe into meeting American demands was a disaster.


    James Madison-Accomplishments of president James Madison, our greatest president:

    1) the first president to establish limited exectuve and war powers. Madison set many precedents regarding what a president can do in a time of war:
    a) no military draft needed to win
    b) no central bank needed
    3) no income tax needed
    4) no significant standing army needed
    5) no violations of civil liberties
    6) no censorship of the press
    7) no round up of ethnic minorities or enemies
    8) declaration of war debated by public and duly voted upon by congress
    9) declaration of war states specifically the causes for war and the goals for victory
    10) no special executive wat powers claimed by president

    2) War of 1812 the greatest victory in US history:

    a) very low casualties, entire war had fewer deaths than single civil war battles or single battles in Napoleoin wars
    b) lasting peace established with England
    c) Victories at New Orleans, Baltimore, Plattsburgh/Lake Champlain, Horsehoe Bend, Chippewa, Lake Erie, the Thames, Tippacanoe, York, and the 2nd barbary War are among the greatest in US history
    d) War of 1812 & 2nd barbary war established free trade on the Great Lakes, Mississippi Rvier, Gulf of Mexico, Carribean Sea, Mediterrenean Sea, and Atlantic ocean.
    e) Madison retired as the most popular 2nd term president in all US history per many authorities including John Adams
    f) Madison started the Era of Good Feelings
    g) victories of the USS Constitution, aka Old Ioronsides, among the most accliamed in all US history.
    h) Patriotic Uncle Sam icon created during Madison's term
    i) famous people like Sam Houston and Davy Crockett got theoir careers started under Madison
    j) War of 1812 veterans dominated congress and the presidency for almost 50 years.

    3) Madison delivered 7 vetoes, compared to 0 by Jefferson and Adams and only 2 (minor ones) by Washington.

    a) the principle of sepeartion of church and states was clearly established by James Madison, via vetoes.

    4) Madison set limits on the powers of a central bank:

    a) In January 1815, despite being in the middle for a war, Madison veotes a bill that would have expanded the powers of the central bank (Madison also let the 1st bank die in 1811, even though he knew war was coming).
    b) In 1816, Madison signed a bank bill that had the exact sames powers as the bank already deemed Constitutional by George Washington.
    c) Everybody knew exactly waht Madison was doing.
    d) hence the Federal Reserve Act is not only blantantly unconstitutional, but bad policy as well, per other Madison principles (banks only needed to pay of debts from NECESSARY defensive wars).

    5) Madison hand-picked his successor, one of the few to do so:

    a) James Monroe went on to become one of our greatest presidents.

    6) Madison was never involved in any scandals.

    was notable as about the only president ever to conduct a major war without engaging in any massive civil-liberties violations, massacring civilians, or installing any major permanent expansions of the federal government. On the other hand, he oversaw tax increases and signed the Second Bank of the United States into law.


    James Monroe-cut taxes and spending, substantially reduced the national debt, took a primarily non-interventionist stance on foreign affairs. He did unleash a certain trigger-happy General Jackson on the Indians (grimly foreshadowing certain future developments) in one unfortunate incident.

    John Quincy Adams-pushed increased taxation and government intervention into the economy, but did at least tend toward foreign non-interventionism and substantially reduce the national debt.

    Andrew Jackson-paid entire debt off and killed the national bank,

    Don't forget killing thousands of natives, denying them their property rights by seizing private Indian land for state and federal purposes, their civil rights, and ejecting them form the country. Also ignoring the rule of law by refusing the acknowledge the ruling and authority of the Supreme Court when it said his acts were unjust. Then there is threatening to hang every citizen of South Carolina when the state threatened to nullify his tariffs. He was not a good President, or even a good man as far as I am concerned.

    I know Jackson is very popular with some libertarians for killing the second national bank and briefly extinguishing the national debt, and these are great accomplishments indeed, but his illegal and egregious atrocities toward the Indians and distinctly authoritarian use of presidential power (as when he bullied the states during the Nullification Crisis and ignored a Supreme Court ruling that he had to respect previous treaties with the Indians rather than evict them) knock him way down in my book.


    Martin Van Buren-gold and silver advocate; deregulation; non-interventionist


    William Henry Harrison- Was president for 39 days. Died of pneumonia he got while giving a two hour speech at his inauguration. Credited with "doing the least damage on any U.S. President.

    John Tyler-refused to support huge public works spending and a new national bank

    James K. Polk-picked a fight with Mexico for land; almost started simultaneous war with British for land in northwest U.S.; expanded executive power

    Zachary Taylor-
    Millard Fillmore-
    Franklin Pierce-
    James Buchanan-
    Abraham Lincoln- Believed U.S. was a white man's country and blacks had no place in it. Imprisoned 15,000 political opponents. Started Civil War to keep South from seceding and went to great lengths, including war, to extort money from the South in the form of tariffs. Civil War resulted in 100,000s of American deaths and twice as many maimed for life. Forced servitude through military draft. Restricted firearms ownership. Had a genocidal policy toward Sioux Indians. The National Banking Act. All in all Lincoln was more of a vicious violent dictator than anthing else.

    Andrew Johnson-
    Ulysses S. Grant-the man cut taxes and spending, reduced the debt, reinstated hard currency, and generally had a respectably non-interventionist (both domestically and abroad) agenda throughout his presidency.

    Rutherford B. Hayes-noninterventionist; insisted on keeping gold standard; paid down debt; kept federal govt out of labor issues; pro-voting rights for blacks

    James Garfield-
    Chester A. Arthur-
    Grover Cleveland-
    Grover Cleveland-- the best example of genuine fealty to the presidential oath of office, manifested through strict construction and enforcement of the US Constitution's limits on the national government, in all of US history, as illustrated by his issuance of nearly 600 vetoes-- more than all the presidents before him combined. Equally important was his peaceful, non-interventionist foreign policy, best exemplified in his passionate opposition to the US take-over of Hawaii (which he managed, at the least, to delay for a time). He was an outspoken opponent of "paternalism" in government, fought for hard currency in the form of a Gold Standard, fought to decrease taxes and spending (against a Republican congress very eager to run up debt on the perceived credit card that was the American public), and could be relied on to stick to his guns regardless of perceived political advantage. He was the closest thing to a President Paul we've ever had. A story that can bring a tear to the eye: his last words were "I have tried so hard to do right."


    Benjamin Harrison-
    William McKinley-big-time imperialist; aggressive foreign policy that set the tone for 20th century; Spanish-American War

    Theodore Roosevelt-
    William Howard Taft-
    Woodrow Wilson-probably the worst; foreign intervention; supported income tax; tried for League of Nations; cracked down on civil liberties; the Fed; racist

    a self-described socialist and eugenicist; a radical interventionist (in both domestic and foreign spheres), white supremacist (note that he publicly assented to the accuracy of the film "the Birth of a Nation," which depicted the Ku Klux Klan as a band of gallant knights) authoritarian who lied to the public about his intention to get the US into World War I (he actually campaigned on the slogan "he kept us out of war" while, as is well-documented, fully intending to get the US into the war after he was elected), resegregated integrated federal departments, jailed his political opponents under the Sedition Act of 1917, and was a driving force behind the creation of the Federal Reserve and the institution of the federal income tax.

    The Wilson legacy:

    * sinking of Lusitania (orchestrated event)

    * The bogus Zimmerman Telegram (another orchestrated event)

    * creation of ADL in 1913

    * "lone nut" near assassination against Teddy Roosevelt in October 1912, throwing the election to Wilson

    * income tax

    * Espionage Act act of 1917, followed by arbitrary arrests of newspaper publishers

    * Federal Reserve

    * WWI

    * Harrison Act of 1914 (war on drugs)

    * allowing women to vote without making congressional districts smaller to balance increased number of voters

    * League of Nations

    * mass murder of over 70 labor unionists in Michigan (Italian Hall fire of 1913, orchestrated event)

    * direct election of Senators (worst event on this list)

    * alcohol prohibition

    * resurgent racism (Wilson set an example for the nation by kicking all the blacks out of the federal government)

    * Wilson set a precedent by lying about his health to the people; he should have resigned, his last two years in office he could not function; basically, his unelected wife took over, rather than the Vice President as the Founders intended

    * In 1913, Charles Beard, cheered by Wilson, published the most horrific "scholarly" attack upon the Founding Fathers, a bogus book called 'An Economic Interpretation of the Constitution'

    * In 1915, Beard published another horrible attack upon Thomas Jefferson

    * Wilson was responsible for the massive spread of influenza, he intentionally moved sick soldiers all over the world and then failed to tell local leaders who could have taken some precautions; this alone led to the deaths of 50 million people, making Wilson the greatest mass murdered in human history, beating out Lincoln, Hitler, Stalin, and Mao combined



    Warren G. Harding-President Warren G. Harding understood that depressions were the unavoidable result of speculative bubbles created by monetary inflation. As Harding explained, “There will be depression after inflation, just as surely as the tides ebb and flow.” [iii] The painful liquidation of unsound money and unsound businesses created by Woodrow Wilson’s foolish intervention in World War I was not only unavoidable but necessary if the economy was ever to return to a sustainable path.

    Under President Harding, there would be no huge government bailouts to save failing businesses or banks, no grand federal make-work programs to employ the unemployed, no massive regulation of the economy to reign in the markets, stifle investment or impede trade. Most important, there would be no major wars started to stimulate production of useless war materials or to destroy “surplus labor.” Though then-Secretary of Commerce Herbert Hoover urged the President to take drastic action to fight the depression, Harding largely brushed Hoover’s exhortations aside. Though Harding did humor his Commerce Secretary by calling for a White House Conference on Unemployment, Harding cautioned the conferees regarding the use of federal funds declaring, “The excess stimulation from that source is to be reckoned a cause of trouble rather than a source of cure.” [iv]

    Harding was not entirely passive, however. To fight the recession, he called on Congress to dramatically reduce both taxes and spending. Under Harding, federal spending was cut from $6.3 billion in 1920 to $5 billion in 1921 and to $3.2 billion in 1922. Federal taxes were also reduced from $6.6 billion in 1920 to $5.5 billion in 1921 and to $4 billion in 1922 with budget surpluses each year used to reduce the federal debt. [v]

    The results were astounding. By 1922, GNP had recovered to $74.6 billion and unemployment fell by nearly 50% to 2.8 million (6.7%). By 1926 with Harding’s Vice President, Calvin Coolidge, in the White House, unemployment had fallen even further to 1.8% (the lowest rate ever recorded in peacetime). Unfortunately, behind the scenes the Federal Reserve was already in the process of inflating yet another monetary bubble. This new bubble would burst (as all bubbles do) in the famous crash of 1929. By this time, Harding was dead and Coolidge in retirement. Having learned nothing from Harding and Coolidge, President Hoover proceeded to raise taxes, increase spending, intervene massively in the economy and the rest is, well, mythology.

    his brief stint in the presidency was a wonderful remedy to Woodrow Wilson's eight years. He overturned the oppressive Sedition Act of 1917, freed Wilson's political prisoners, finalized peace in the aftermath of World War I, didn't intervene in the economy when the stock market crashed, but instead cut taxes and spending (leading to a quick recovery), balanced the budget, and reduced the national debt. On the downside, he at least paid lip service to supporting alcohol prohibition (though he did very little to enforce it once he took office and was an alcoholic himself), raised tariffs to their highest level in US history up to that stage, and made some poor choices in cabinet members, leading to corruption (graft, patronage and whatnot) scandals within his administration.

    Calvin Coolidge-essentially continued Harding's agenda; he cut taxes and spending, kept the federal government out of the economy for the most part, stayed out of other countries' internal affairs, and cut the national debt. On the other hand, Coolidge was a more vigorous enforcer of Prohibition, to the point of assenting to some policies that were outright draconian, such as a scheme by the government to poison ingredients of alcoholic beverages in order to scare people out of drinking them.

    Herbert Hoover-
    Franklin D. Roosevelt-an autocratic despot whose duplicitousness, brutality, and disregard for the rule of law were unmatched. He embarked on the biggest agenda of government regimentation of the economy in all of US history (which severely prolonged the Great Depression), underhandedly bullied the Supreme Court into accepting his illegal New Deal programs, initiated the worst racial persecution by a US president since the Trail of Tears in the form of Japanese internment, became the first and only president to ignore Washington's two-term precedent, lied through his teeth to the American public about his intention to get the US into World War II, undertook a campaign of vicious firebombing of civilian populations during World War II... the list goes on. All told, he did more to break down the Constitution's barriers against federal power, install a permanent big-government apparatus in the United States, set a standard of amoral Machiavellian policy-making that treats human beings like disposable objects of convenience, and put the country on an irreversible course toward fiscal insolvency than any other individual ever has.

    Largely responsible for the national government as we know it today, a vast, unfathomable apparatus that recognizes no limits whatsoever to its power, either at home or abroad. Made it unlawful to own gold coins, bullion or certificates and seized all the Fed's gold, intentionally moving us from real money to an almost completely fiat currency. During the Depression, signed Agricultural Adjustment Act. Paying farmers to either not grow crops or plow them under. Established fascism in America with the National Recovery Administration. It gave him power to establish "codes of fair competition" which soon covered 95% of industrial workers. Gave us the Social Security Act, which has been stealing money from American workers ever since and can be currently described as "a colossal clusterf***". Rounded up and imprisoned 100,000 Americans without due process. The Japanese Internment Camps. His policies prolonged the Great Depression, perhaps by as much as a decade. Was more of a tyrant king than a president.


    Harry Truman-("containment" was wasteful and belligerent; federal govt involved in labor disputes; supported compulsory health insurance, mandatory military service, and federal housing

    responsible for the Hiroshima and Nagasaki atrocities and illegal presidential war in Korea, put the first US troops in Vietnam, tried to illegally seize and nationalize the steel industry.


    Dwight Eisenhower-
    John F. Kennedy-In his first term within few months as president he did get in bed with the establishments, the 'TPTB' and the secret government and king makers. Note again how he was fully into Vietnam war, Cuban Invasion and several strong supporter of the establishment issues including their commercial colonization (Anglo-Brit -American Elite Economic) of the world financial empire.

    However during the Cuban missile crisis along with his confidant and right hand brother Robert and with their apparent part of disclosure of things that are privy to the higher powers only, have seen him (and his brother Robert) to change a 180 degree turn in favour of humanity (circa Sept 1962 up to his November 1963 assassination).

    He was quoted around January 1963 telling Robert McNamara "this period and the eminent so close Cuban Nuclear war with Russia have shaken my very foundation which made me change overnight to fight evil for what it is, specially what have woken in me of the real reality of the world... my faith and the power I have been given I will do everything right".

    The JFK prior to the Cuban Missile Crisis was totally different from the one that made his righteous legacy of fighting the New World Order in favour of humanity.

    Lyndon Johnson-
    Richard Nixon-1971: Nixon severs ties to gold
    1973: Nixon backs Israel in Yom Kippur War. In retaliation, OPEC declares embargo on US (it lasted 6 months). Nixon rations oil to the states based on 1972 usage rates. States with increased populations had shortages. To encourage new exploration, Nixon fixed the price of oil from existing domestic fields. Prices from newly developed fields are allowed to float at market rates. Because inflation was already picking up from the fiat money switch, existing oil fields became unprofitable. "Old oil" fields were shut down. Shortages increased. This was the beginning of the huge spike in oil that peaked in 1980.

    Gerald Ford- Terrible foreign policy, pardoned Nixon.


    Jimmy Carter- created the Department of Education and Department of Energy
    gets an excessively bad rap in some quarters these days; he actually oversaw moderately significant deregulation of the economy, and was one of the less authoritarian and warlike presidents of the last few decades.

    1979: Carter bans oil imports from Iran, imposes import quotas, and tells Americans to install solar panels, lower the temperature in their houses, and to stop driving so damn much.

    Deregulated more than Reagan, kept us out of war and had a foreign policy aimed at maintaining peace.

    Ronald Reagan-Iran-Contra was among worst constitutional violations ever; big spender;

    a divisive figure in and out of libertarian circles, but I think this is largely because of his compelling and distinctive rhetoric and persona; his policies were generally fairly unremarkable. He did deregulate domestically, and was much less of a warmonger than any of the presidents who have followed in his wake (though still too much of one), but also allowed enormous increases in net spending and debt, expanded the drug war, and had the CIA partaking of certain foreign entanglements that would come back to bite us horribly, among other things.

    Tripled national debt with his horrid Reaganomics. Genocide of citizens in Nicaragua and other Central American countries. War on Drugs, one of the biggest destroyers of peace, life and liberty. The Reagan of the 1976/80 campaigns could have been a good president. But he did a complete 180 after the assassination attempt.

    George Bush Sr.- Taxes. The first Iraq war plus other illegal wars. Drug warrior to the point of invading Panama and kidnapping Noriega. Ruby Ridge happened on his watch. He did some things that would be considered minor by today's standards like banning some types of imported guns.

    Bill Clinton- The disaster known as NAFTA. Illegal wars. Was much better economically than Bush Jr or Obama, partially due to the biggest bubble of them all expanding. Tried to implement HillaryCare, which was at least as bad as ObamaCare. The Waco incident. Laid the groundwork for what we have seen from George W. Bush and Obama. The Clinton Body Count. Stole from Social Security to create the illusion of a surplus.

    George W. Bush- PATRIOT Act and widespread civil liberties violations; bailouts; unfunded Medicare expansion; general incompetence

    Started "War On Terror". No Child Left Behind. Started illegal wars in Iraq and Afghanistan that have killed more than 100,000 people and maimed (mentally or physically) several times that many. Committed many war crimes. Greatly expanded the federal government and nearly doubled our national debt. Removed the right to Habeus Corpus with the Military Commissions Act. Used torture and generally found a way to make nearly every country hate us and he was much more of a dictator than president.

    Barack Obama- Obamacare. Has gotten us involved in more illegal wars. Signed NDAA and many other bills and Executive Orders that are further destroying our liberties and installing a 1984 style Nanny/Police State. Is actively using drones and troops on American soil. Has added more to our national debt that George W. Bush did. Has pretty much completely given away our sovereignty to the elite globalist banks and U.N.

    His policies have substantially worsened unemployment, record numbers of people now depend on government assistance via taxpayer dollars than ever before. Granted himself the power to kill American citizens without trial.


    In this OP I put MaxPower's ranking and Recarving Rushmore's ranking and will be slowly working on my own. Members have requested that we group the presidents in tiers instead of rank. So we will be doing that now too.


    Here's the Recarving Rushmore list, it only goes to 40 apparently:

    Quote Originally Posted by Recarving Rushmore View Post
    1 John Tyler
    2 Grover Cleveland
    3 Martin van Buren
    4 Rutherford B. Hayes
    5 Chester A Artur
    6 Warren G Harding
    7 George Washington
    8 Jimmy Carter
    9 Dwight D Eisenhower
    10 Calvin Coolidge
    11 Bill Clinton
    12 John Quincy Adams
    13 Zachary Taylor
    14 Millard Fillmore
    15 Benjamin Harrison
    16 Gerald Ford
    17 Andrew Johnson
    18 Herbert Hoover
    19 Ulysses S. Grant
    20 William Howard Taft
    21 Theodore Roosevelt
    22 John Adams
    23 James Buchanan
    24 Franklin Pierce
    25 James Monroe
    26 Thomas Jefferson
    27 Andrew Jackson
    28 James Madison
    29 Abraham Lincoln
    30 Richard Nixon
    31 FDR
    32 LBJ
    33 George HW Bush
    34 Ronald Reagan
    35 JFK
    36 George W Bush
    37 James K Pok
    38 William McKinley
    39 Harry S. Truman
    40 Woodrow Wilson
    Here's MaxPower's ranking

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxPower View Post

    1. Grover Cleveland
    2. Thomas Jefferson
    3. James Monroe
    4. George Washington
    5. Warren G. Harding
    6. Calvin Coolidge
    7. James A. Garfield
    8. Ulysses S. Grant
    9. James Madison
    10. John Tyler
    11. Benjamin Harrison
    12. Rutherford B. Hayes
    13. John Q. Adams
    14. Martin Van Buren
    15. Zachary Taylor
    16. Chester A. Arthur
    17. John Adams
    18. William H. Taft
    19. Andrew Jackson
    20. William Henry Harrison
    21. Jimmy Carter
    22. Gerald Ford
    23. Ronald Reagan
    24. Herbert Hoover
    25. John F. Kennedy
    26. Dwight Eisenhower
    27. Andrew Johnson
    28. Franklin Pierce
    29. Millard Fillmore
    30. James Buchanan
    31. William McKinley
    32. Abraham Lincoln
    33. Theodore Roosevelt
    34. George H.W. Bush
    35. James K. Polk
    36. Bill Clinton
    37. Richard Nixon
    38. Lyndon B. Johnson
    39. George W. Bush
    40. Harry Truman
    41. Woodrow Wilson
    42. Franklin Roosevelt
    Slowly working on my own ranking, not in much of an order yet:
    Quote Originally Posted by JFKIII View Post
    Grover Cleveland
    George Washington
    Thomas Jefferson
    James Madison
    John F. Kennedy
    Herbert Hoover
    Harry Truman
    Dwight Eisenhower
    Gerald Ford
    Jimmy Carter
    Richard Nixon
    Ronald Reagan
    George H.W. Bush
    Bill Clinton
    Lyndon Johnson
    George W. Bush
    Barack Obama
    Woodrow Wilson
    Franklin D. Roosevelt
    Abraham Lincoln
    Also some members are requesting we group the Presidents rather thank rank them. So group away How about 5 tiers?

    We are switching to grouping the presidents, unless you want to do both? Group them and list them? I can put both in the OP. Let's debate. If you want a president higher or lower on the list/grouping please tell us why. Also I still need to put in the summaries for each president and need summaries still for more presidents. Definitely need more discussion on most of the presidents.
    Last edited by John F Kennedy III; 07-27-2012 at 04:45 PM.



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    I know some of the people here are going to jump down my throat for saying this, but I believe that Theodore Roosevelt is the best president of all time.

    I also think that Bill Clinton was a good president.

    I also deeply respect Jimmy Carter despite the fact that he had a pretty bad term.
    If you wanted some sort of Ideological purity, you'll get none of that from me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam I am View Post
    I know some of the people here are going to jump down my throat for saying this, but I believe that Theodore Roosevelt is the best president of all time.

    I also think that Bill Clinton was a good president.

    I also deeply respect Jimmy Carter despite the fact that he had a pretty bad term.
    Can you elaborate on these? It will help in the ranking. I think a healthy debate would be good for this thread. So if you are going to disagree with what he said, please keep it civil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John F Kennedy III View Post
    Can you elaborate on these? It will help in the ranking. I think a healthy debate would be good for this thread. So if you are going to disagree with what he said, please keep it civil.
    When Roosevelt was elected, we had many problems with corporatism as we do now. It was incredibly difficult for an individual to stand up to a large corporation in court, and many corporations were doing this thing called trusts where they agreed not to compete with each-other and undermining the invisible hand. Most of the laws at the time unfairly favored the elite, I.E. Strikes would be broken up by the police.

    Theodore Roosevelt cracked down on trusts, and made the laws a whole lot more fair for the individual.



    Bill Clinton presided over the closest thing We've had to a surplus in over 25 years.



    Jimmy Carter was one of the most Anti-war presidents since the great depression. JFK was probably the only other president who you could even argue to be anti-war.
    If you wanted some sort of Ideological purity, you'll get none of that from me.

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    Sam's analysis on TR is 180 degree's backwards. Teddy was big into merging government with business. He was our first actual Progressive president. Plenty of books on him.

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    For good ones:
    Washington - the guy who glued it all together. All star first cabinet. Set the two term precedent and non intervention foreign policy.
    Jefferson - Paid 1/2 the debt, Lousiana Purchase (there is argument about its Constitutionality, but its minor imo)
    Jackson - paid entire debt off and killed the national bank
    Van Buren - kept us out of war, financial freedom
    Tyler - rejected Whig policy, did a solid job
    Polk - fulfilled all his major objectives, although did provoke the Mexican American war
    Grover Cleveland - Mr. Veto, gold standard
    Calvin Coolidge - drastically slowed progressivism, cut spending and taxes significantly

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    I thought JFK was responsible for the Cuban Missile Crisis because we did not take nukes out of Turkey until it was too late?

    And the Bay of Pigs?

    In all honesty, I must be underestimating the Soviets during the Cold War, but wasn't most of the Cuban Missile Crisis really his fault in the end?
    Last edited by Lishy; 05-21-2012 at 05:08 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lishy View Post
    I thought JFK was responsible for the Cuban Missile Crisis because we did not take nukes out of Turkey until it was too late?
    Taking missiles out of Turkey was what ended it, I believe.

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    I like this thread, but know little to nothing about US presidents. Would like to know more!

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgiaAvenger View Post
    Taking missiles out of Turkey was what ended it, I believe.
    Yes. But he still maintained them.

    Also, JFK was a president during the 60's. This means her PERMITTED MKUltra and MKArtichoke to continue?

    Notably, Eisenhower also permitted MKUltra Subproject 68 in which the CIA kidnapped innocent Canadians and performed inhuman torture and mind control experiments on Canadian citizens in Quebec at the Allen Memorial Institute.

    If he could permit that, ain't all his praise bullshit? Eisenhower must have been an UN-sympathetic bastard...
    Last edited by Lishy; 05-21-2012 at 05:13 PM.

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    Is this a troll thread?

    The best president was William Henry Harrison. The country would be much better off if every president did what he did.
    "Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem."
    Ronald Reagan, 1981

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    Quote Originally Posted by enoch150 View Post
    Is this a troll thread?

    The best president was William Henry Harrison. The country would be much better off if every president did what he did.
    No.

    And what did he do?

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    Quote Originally Posted by John F Kennedy III View Post
    No.

    And what did he do?
    Died from pneumonia contracted at his inauguration.
    "You cannot solve these problems with war." - Ron Paul

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    George Washington invaded the state of Pennsylvania to collect a tax on whiskey.

    Thomas Jefferson pushed through the Embargo Acts of 1807-08 which devastated the New England economy. Some areas of New England refused to enforce the embargo and were considered in open rebellion. This was one of the issues that led to the Hartford Convention in 1814 which nearly led to several New England states seceding.
    "Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem."
    Ronald Reagan, 1981

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    Quote Originally Posted by TroySmith View Post
    For good ones:

    Jackson - paid entire debt off and killed the national bank
    Don't forget killing thousands of natives, denying them their property rights by seizing private Indian land for state and federal purposes, their civil rights, and ejecting them form the country. Also ignoring the rule of law by refusing the acknowledge the ruling and authority of the Supreme Court when it said his acts were unjust. Then there is threatening to hang every citizen of South Carolina when the state threatened to nullify his tariffs. He was not a good President, or even a good man as far as I am concerned.
    "The bird or the cage?"-The Lutece Twins

    "A man chooses. A slave obeys."-Andrew Ryan

    "There are three things the parasite hates: free markets, free will, and free men."-Andrew Ryan

    "That every man may act... be accountable for his own sins in the day of judgment. And for this purpose have I established the Constitution of this land, by the hands of wise men whom I raised up unto this very purpose"- Jesus Christ, Doctrine and Covenants 101:78-80

  18. #17

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lishy View Post
    Yes. But he still maintained them.

    Also, JFK was a president during the 60's. This means her PERMITTED MKUltra and MKArtichoke to continue?

    Notably, Eisenhower also permitted MKUltra Subproject 68 in which the CIA kidnapped innocent Canadians and performed inhuman torture and mind control experiments on Canadian citizens in Quebec at the Allen Memorial Institute.

    If he could permit that, ain't all his praise bullshit? Eisenhower must have been an UN-sympathetic bastard...

    JFK also planned Vietnam, he just got shot before he could carry it out.
    "The bird or the cage?"-The Lutece Twins

    "A man chooses. A slave obeys."-Andrew Ryan

    "There are three things the parasite hates: free markets, free will, and free men."-Andrew Ryan

    "That every man may act... be accountable for his own sins in the day of judgment. And for this purpose have I established the Constitution of this land, by the hands of wise men whom I raised up unto this very purpose"- Jesus Christ, Doctrine and Covenants 101:78-80

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by enoch150 View Post
    George Washington invaded the state of Pennsylvania to collect a tax on whiskey.

    Thomas Jefferson pushed through the Embargo Acts of 1807-08 which devastated the New England economy. Some areas of New England refused to enforce the embargo and were considered in open rebellion. This was one of the issues that led to the Hartford Convention in 1814 which nearly led to several New England states seceding.
    To be fair to Washington, they did more than refused to pay their taxes. They were in armed revolt before Washington ever took the field. Also he didn't invade Pennsylvania, he was asked to intercede by the state government. The same protocol is followed today. A federal force has to be invited into the state before it can take military action.
    Last edited by PierzStyx; 05-21-2012 at 06:02 PM.
    "The bird or the cage?"-The Lutece Twins

    "A man chooses. A slave obeys."-Andrew Ryan

    "There are three things the parasite hates: free markets, free will, and free men."-Andrew Ryan

    "That every man may act... be accountable for his own sins in the day of judgment. And for this purpose have I established the Constitution of this land, by the hands of wise men whom I raised up unto this very purpose"- Jesus Christ, Doctrine and Covenants 101:78-80

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    JFK also planned Vietnam, he just got shot before he could carry it out.
    I thought he was against it generally, in contrast with the war hawk Johnson?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgiaAvenger View Post
    I thought he was against it generally, in contrast with the war hawk Johnson?
    If I remember right, JFK had about 2,000 troops there and started the bombing. Johnson started the ground campaign.
    "Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem."
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    Quote Originally Posted by enoch150 View Post
    If I remember right, JFK had about 2,000 troops there and started the bombing. Johnson started the ground campaign.
    I was thinking JFK had military advisers and wanted to help shape the outcome, but thought the war would be a hell hole(as it was). But I am not too familiar with the situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    To be fair to Washington, they did more than refused to pay their taxes. They were in armed revolt before Washington ever took the field. Also he didn't invade Pennsylvania, he was asked to intercede by the state government.
    Why were they considered in armed revolt, if not for Washington's tax? Washington invaded. The fact that the government of Pennsylvania went along with this does not change the matter.
    "Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem."
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgiaAvenger View Post
    I was thinking JFK had military advisers and wanted to help shape the outcome, but thought the war would be a hell hole(as it was). But I am not too familiar with the situation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Noam Chomsky
    In 1962, the United States attacked South Vietnam. In that year, President John F. Kennedy sent the U.S. Air Force to attack rural South Vietnam, where more than 80 percent of the population lived. This was part of a program intended to drive several million people into concentration camps (called "strategic hamlets") where they would be surrounded by barbed wire and armed guards. This would "protect" these people from the guerrillas whom, we conceded, they were largely supporting.

    The direct U.S. attack against South Vietnam followed our support for the French attempt to reconquer their former colony, our disruption of the 1954 "peace process," and a terrorist war against the South Vietnamese population. This terror had already left some 75,000 dead while evoking domestic resistance, supported from the northern half of the country after 1959, that threatened to bring down the regime that the U.S. had established. In the following years, the U.S. continued to resist every attempt at peaceful settlement, and in 1964 began to plan the ground invasion of South Vietnam. The land assault took place in early 1965, accompanied by the bombing of North Vietnam and an intensification of the bombing of the south, at triple the level of the more publicized bombing of the north.
    http://www.chomsky.info/articles/198912--.htm

    November 1963 — By this time, Kennedy had increased the number of military personnel from the 900 that were there when he became President to 16,000 just before his death.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role_of...2.80.931963.29
    Last edited by enoch150; 05-21-2012 at 06:54 PM.
    "Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem."
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    enoch, good info

    As for the worst Presidents, I have Woodrow Wilson last.....the Federal Reserve, income tax, league of nations, and WW1 being just the main reasons why....there are certainly more

    FDR, Lyndon Johnson, Lincoln, Obama....all are near my bottom as well.

  27. #26

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    I'll go with worst to best

    1) FDR - For his economic policies, getting the USA involved in war, and lack of care to civil liberties.
    The Details.
    http://mises.org/daily/5517/Out-Out-...on-FDR-in-1938
    http://newdeal.feri.org/court/fdr5_31_35.htm
    http://mises.org/daily/4388
    http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=258
    http://www.lewrockwell.com/raico/fdr-1.html

    2) Lincoln- Main reason executive powers have grown little no care of the constitution. Cared more for keeping the Country as 1 than the lives of thousands.

    Details
    This should provide everything
    http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig2/lincoln-arch.html

    3)Wilson- Introduced the FED, Income tax (75%), Prohibition. Used the IRS and FBI to crush who disagreed with him. Followed up on Teddy and Lincolns growth of executive power.

    Details
    http://www.lewrockwell.com/stromberg/stromberg18.html
    http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig4/powell-jim5.html
    http://mises.org/media/1090/Woodrow-...ithin-the-Form
    http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard100.html
    http://www.lewrockwell.com/denson/denson9.html

    4 Bush jr - I think most understand why...

    5 LBJ- Terrible economic policies (lead to the inflation of the 60's and 70's), Vietnam, and Corrupt as &%$!
    details
    http://www.lewrockwell.com/dieteman/dieteman24.html
    http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig11/morrow-r1.1.1.html
    http://mises.org/daily/3232/
    http://mises.org/daily/5208
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    Thanks for the posts so far guys. I'm eager to see more. Tomorrow I will update the OP with a preliminary ranking. I'm looking to include a pretty detailed summary under each president's name.

  29. #28

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    You might want to check out Recarving Rushmore by Ivan Eland. He ranks the presidents based on their ability to maintain peace, prosperity, and liberty. I read it several years ago when I was first discovering Ron Paul and it's a good way to get some real information on the unsung hero presidents.



    Edit - I found a video of the Author talking about his book and historical bias at the Independent Institute if you're interested.


    Last edited by keh10; 05-21-2012 at 07:25 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lishy View Post
    Yes. But he still maintained them.

    Also, JFK was a president during the 60's. This means her PERMITTED MKUltra and MKArtichoke to continue?

    Notably, Eisenhower also permitted MKUltra Subproject 68 in which the CIA kidnapped innocent Canadians and performed inhuman torture and mind control experiments on Canadian citizens in Quebec at the Allen Memorial Institute.

    If he could permit that, ain't all his praise bullshit? Eisenhower must have been an UN-sympathetic bastard...
    Kennedy wanted to split the CIA into a 1000 pieces ... he inherited the Cuba problem ... he talked to khrushchev secretly to resolve crisis ... he was going to direct military out of Vietnam until Johnson gave the criminals their war back ... he was young and a creature of history and found himself surrounded by the MIC which was warned by Ike and probably would have discovered the secret agenda of the banksters in more detail which would have probably changed his ideas on the united nations which was pushed by them ... in those days one must remember we were v naive and quite stupid during the 50's IMO ... he wanted to contain nukes from israel as well ... he came to hate the CIA and most chicken hawks that ran the military that guided him ... I believe he ordered them to takeover the CIA butL likely that was reason they killed him ( perhaps " the big event " which was later revealed by death bed confession) ... he wanted to do good for us I'm quite sure but no one is ever perfect
    "It is from numberless diverse acts of courage and belief that human history is shaped. Each time a person stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope, and crossing each other from a million different centers of energy and daring, those ripples build a current which can sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and resistance." Robert Kennedy

    http://scully13.wordpress.com/ men of dark intentions

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