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Thread: Mike Rowe: America has a dysfunctional relationship with work

  1. #1

    Mike Rowe: America has a dysfunctional relationship with work

    Not sure if this has been posted before, a quick search didn't turn it up.




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  3. #2
    Its funny how if you go to school to learn to weld, some asshat at a job will insist that you have a 4 year degree which includes a ton of indoctrination propoganda like US History, in order to WELD.
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  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    Its funny how if you go to school to learn to weld, some asshat at a job will insist that you have a 4 year degree which includes a ton of indoctrination propoganda like US History, in order to WELD.
    Exactly.
    "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"

  5. #4
    Perhaps someone should explain to Mike that skilled manual labor is a hallmark of the bad old days when things like savings, investment & production were what drove the economy.

    (You know, back when we actually made stuff).

    Today, we live in the brave new consumption-driven world of borrow-and-spend. And that means the service sector reigns supreme.

    IOW: college-degreed waiters > vo-tech welders ... thank you, J.M. Keynes!
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 05-04-2012 at 04:54 PM.
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  6. #5
    This guy is smarter than I thought. Very well spoken. Everything he said made perfect sense.
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  7. #6
    I've seen quite a few clips here and there where Mike talks about various aspects of work/jobs that were very interesting. It always reminds me of the teens I see at some fast food joints who b*tch and moan when you ask them to do something extra, like bend down and grab a couple extra napkins. In my city, starting wage at many fast food places is well over $10/hr and in the one I'm talking about in particular, teens started at over $13/hr - yet rolled their eyes right in my face when I asked for extra napkins (I was ordering for 3 people and was given ONE lol).... I wanted to climb over the counter and smack some sense into those kids. It's crazy. They all want the money, but don't want to work for it. There is no way in heck that they would do anything like the people on Dirty Jobs, that's for sure. I'm not saying all kids are like that - some are very very hard workers, but it seems to relate to the work ethic they are taught at home and there sure doesnt seem to be much of that going around these days.

    I remember at my son's football banquet a couple years ago, he was praised for going to every single practice and game (5 or 6 days a week for 4 months), and the coach looked right at me and said that he shows a 'very strong work ethic, which can only be taught at home'. It was a proud moment - proud of my son, and proud of myself/my boyfriend. But it's tough. SO many of my son's friends cannot be bothered to do anything, help their parents, do their homework (what little they seem to be given these days, compared to the past), etc. Now I know why elderly people used to go around saying 'I used to do that job for 25 cents an hour and I worked my tail off, while you youngin's do nothing but complain'. I find myself saying that now, but it's ten times worse. Lord only know what elderly people must think now. My father in law is almost 73 and he can barely manage to talk about anyone under the age of 25 without getting into a rage. It's sad. I have no idea what the next couple of generations are going to be like... how are us oldies going to get our pension money (lol) when all these young buggers don't want to work (and pay into the system, for ME lol). Seriously though, it's really scary to think about. I just tell my kids to ignore what everyone else is doing (or NOT doing, rather) and do their school work and jobs the way they were taught and be proud of their own accomplishments and keep striving to excel in whatever it is they choose.

    As for education, I just went to my son's school for Grade 10 registration last month and I was fuming by the time I left. There were some really cool elective classes available that I wish I could have taken (forensics, EMT stuff, psychology, etc) but his guidance counsellor said 'well he would have to drop Chemistry 30 or another big class to do one of those, and Chem 30 would look really good on a university application'. WTF? My son is 14. He already knows that I do not believe everyone 'knows what they want to be when they grow up' when they are only 18 or so, and I don't like young teens being forced into thinking college and uni are the only answers to their future... but I was tired of arguing with the guy so I just let it slide. Those classes are not available until Grade 12 anyway so he can register for them if he likes in the spring before he gets to that grade. But I was very annoyed with the counsellor. Like, shut the hell up already buddy! My son is not getting a free ride through uni unless we win the lottery or he gets a lot of scholarships (he is smart, but there are a couple kids who get almost 100% in everything, so they will be eating up all that $$$), so my son knows he will be working to save up if he wants to go to uni. you know - WORKING. At places that do not require a big degree.... and who knows, maybe he will land himself somewhere that he will never need a degree. Where I live right now, most of the people making over $100,000 a year never did a day of college in their whole lives. But still, kids are being taught that they will not amount to anything if they do not go to post secondary school, and I think that is really wrong. There are tons of jobs that we all need someone to do that do not require any extra education. I argued that with my smarty pants engineer friend who has worked for CP Rail, Husky Oil and NATO - she said 'EVERYONE needs a university education. EVERYONE should go' and I said 'so, how about the girl who serves you your triple cream double trouble latte every morning? The one you have not been able to live without for the past 10 years?'....'or the people who serve you at the grocery store? or the gas station? or anywhere that you go on a daily basis?' DUH. That kind of attitude drives me nuts. Many educated people act as if the world would end if we didnt have colleges - but it seems to me that the world would end if everyone WENT to college. Cos who the hell would be doing all of these other important jobs if everyone went and got a degree with some fancy title? Seriously.. ugh!

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by PaulConventionWV View Post
    This guy is smarter than I thought. Very well spoken. Everything he said made perfect sense.
    I don't know if this is relevant at all, but he's also an ex-opera performer.

  9. #8
    You folks might also be interested in Shop class as Soulcraft by a motorcycle mechanic with a philosophy PhD, Michael Crawford.

    Here's a TED presentation he did. He even makes a brief reference to Dirty Work.


    Front porch republic also did a very interesting online symposium of papers based on Shop Class as Soulcraft.
    http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=4641

    Here is Patrick Deneen's summary of the book:

    In the book, Matt Crawford argues on behalf of the virtues of crafts – those forms of work that require skill of hands, a storehouse of knowledge and experience, patience, improvisational ability, and creativity. His book is a seering indictment of the alienation and deforming nature of much of what constitutes modern work, whether those “manual” jobs that tend to be modeled on mass-production models of assembly line, or “brain” work that more often than not results in workplaces that resemble “The Office” or “Dilbert.” He argues fiercely against the notion that there ought to be a conceptual separation between “manual” and “mental” work, noting that the crafts require a high degree of thought and creativity. The book argues for a reconsideration of many modern assumptions about the superiority of certain kinds of educational tracks and life paths, and ably points out that many modern office jobs are just as intellectually deadening as the assembly line jobs that once required 93 job offers for every one position being filled. There was a time when men and women had a sense of the dignity of work that most people refused to remain in a job that degraded and alienated its holder. Now, Crawford suggests, many regard such work (especially its white collar iterations) as a badge of success.



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  11. #9
    Mike Rowe seems like a good guy and he makes a legitimate point. However I thought the government pr's focus is on putting everyone in college. Now they're supposed to pr for the trades. Using a libertarian perspective, how about the gov. just gets out of the pr business all together. Before they create a new bubble. By the way been a weldor since 84. Took a class in highschool learned on the job by former gas pipeline weldor and 3rd generation blacksmith. I am required by state to requalify every 3 years. The certification is tied to the employer, so it is no good if I am hired by a new employer. Each employer must create their own procedures and they must be proven. The employee then tests on that proven procedures.

  12. #10
    this is a reason I have a problem with Ron Paul attacking unions. Unions provide the apprenticeships. I wish he'd clarify that position.

  13. #11
    Gary North brought up a similar point about blue collar jobs on his website.

    I've told my nephews (like they would listen to me) and friends, if they learn how to drive a forklift in college? What about plumbing? Driving a bulldozer? Tractor?

    If you get a 20k/year after you graduate high school as a machinist apprentice, you'll have 80K, no debt, and 4 years of experience which will lead to higher pay. If you go to college and get a worthless degree, you'll have zero money, debt, and 4 years of LOST TIME that you could have used GET EXPERIENCE.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by newbitech View Post
    this is a reason I have a problem with Ron Paul attacking unions. Unions provide the apprenticeships. I wish he'd clarify that position.
    Everything the Unions have they take from the workers. It is pretty silly to assume that if the union's power were diminished that apprenticeships would go away, apprenticeships have been around a lot longer than any union. As things are, the trade unions reduce the size of the work force and thus adds to unemployment, much more than the apprenticeship programs reduce it.
    "Time is catching up with me." -Ron Paul

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by newbitech View Post
    this is a reason I have a problem with Ron Paul attacking unions. Unions provide the apprenticeships. I wish he'd clarify that position.
    Unions aren't what they used to be. Now they just serve as a middleman between the employer and the employee.

  16. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by newbitech View Post
    this is a reason I have a problem with Ron Paul attacking unions. Unions provide the apprenticeships. I wish he'd clarify that position.
    Yeah, me too. I also wish he would stop attacking the welfare system, gun control laws, cental bank driven inflation, interventionist wars, police state legislation and socialized health care. And I wish he would stop going on and on all the time about 'freedom'. Basically I wish he was Barack Obama.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by HigherVision View Post
    Yeah, me too. I also wish he would stop attacking the welfare system, gun control laws, cental bank driven inflation, interventionist wars, police state legislation and socialized health care. And I wish he would stop going on and on all the time about 'freedom'. Basically I wish he was Barack Obama.
    LoL, unions, like the government, have been corrupted. I think the American work ethic has been lulled into the same consumer driven complacency by overabundance, unsustainable/unhealthy living, and a sense of entitlement that has eroded the will to survive and prosper that once made this country great. Entertainment has played the biggest role in this, IMHO. I have always liked Mike Rowe, when I had a TV dirty jobs was one of my favorite shows.
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  18. #16
    I'm proud to say I have the knowledge and skills to build a residential structure with my own two hands from foundation to roof, including electrical, plumbing, mechanical systems and all the carpentry in between. I wish more americans learned to use their hands, appreciated work for the experience above the pay, and learned to negotiate gigs with their neighbors instead of relying upon corporate paychecks.

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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by HigherVision View Post
    Yeah, me too. I also wish he would stop attacking the welfare system, gun control laws, cental bank driven inflation, interventionist wars, police state legislation and socialized health care. And I wish he would stop going on and on all the time about 'freedom'. Basically I wish he was Barack Obama.
    I'd have no problem with a union association that would push back on ridiculous employer's claims on people's life and liberty, just to hold a job.

    Can't watch the video, but I've been a fan of Rowe's for years now.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by newbitech View Post
    this is a reason I have a problem with Ron Paul attacking unions. Unions provide the apprenticeships. I wish he'd clarify that position.
    If Paul has ever attacked Unions, it would be forced membership. Ron has stated many times that he fully supports a workers right to form unions.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    Its funny how if you go to school to learn to weld, some asshat at a job will insist that you have a 4 year degree which includes a ton of indoctrination propoganda like US History, in order to WELD.
    This is not limited to welding. The vast majority of professions require way more classes than you really need, some more than others. But I can't think of many professions outside of McDonalds that don't require more education than necessary. I'm in the accounting industry, and I'm sorry, I didn't go to school to learn history, literature, statistics, calculus, and all that other bull$#@!.

  23. #20
    I have a theory. I planned on writing a blog on it, but I guess a few sentences here will do. Basically I believe there is a continuous cycle of dependents between Big Government, Big Business (corporations) and Big Unions. One can not survive without the next. Big Corporations need Big Government to survive. Big Gov. provides bailouts, regulations that stifle competition and (in the case of construction at least) huge sometimes unnecessary infrastructure contracts to keep a steady flow of work for oversized and unsustainable corporations that would not survive in a free market system. Big Gov. needs Big Unions to survive. Big Unions provide a constant voting block of union members for pro Big Gov. politicians, powerful lobbyist to promote government expansion and propaganda in all media types. Recently I’ve been hearing an advertisement by federal union workers extolling the virtue of federal workers and all they do for us. Believe it or not. Big Unions need Big Corporations to survive. Big corporations simply provide the union member wages. Without Big Corp. there would not be much money for Big Union to exist. Small Business can’t afford the inefficiencies and cost to employ union labor. Now I know there are some small private business that have union employees and they do just fine, but the point is Big Union would not generate the union membership and capital that Big Corp. and there Big Gov. contracts allow for. By the way I’m ashamed to say I’ve been in a trade union for the past twenty years. There is no more work. The bench is full. In the nineties we constructed buildings for private business, by 2000 it was all government contracts (and hospital and medical clinics, the current bubble created by Big Gov., insurance and lawyers) private sector unions are dying like the parasite that killed its host. Which is why there has been such a huge shift recently to public unions. I want out but not sure how to without loosing part of my pension even though I’m fully vested. You used to be able to take a withdraw card, but now they have made it much more complicated. Oh And I skipped the apprenticeship. I got my Skills from small nonunion companies.

  24. #21
    plus 1 milloion
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    Its funny how if you go to school to learn to weld, some asshat at a job will insist that you have a 4 year degree which includes a ton of indoctrination propoganda like US History, in order to WELD.

  25. #22
    First of all there is no labor shortage, that is BS. If companies truly can't find workers at a certain pay, it means they are paying too little for the job, it doesn't mean there is a shortage of workers. Mike Rowe hosts a TV show, also known as talking head work, about things he knows little about and he calls it work. Talk about dysfunctional!
    Last edited by RickyJ; 05-06-2012 at 02:50 AM.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    Its funny how if you go to school to learn to weld, some asshat at a job will insist that you have a 4 year degree which includes a ton of indoctrination propoganda like US History, in order to WELD.
    This is not true in a right to work state.I know welders without high school diplomas,one with a grade school education from a foreign country making 6 figures.You could have their job tomorrow,all you have to do is be better at what they do than they are.



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