Maine Legislator Turncoat

[jbauer]

Rocco,

He also could have kept his mouth shut. There shouldn't have been any poltical presure to join the Romney bandwagon until its all his. This "took one for the team" mentaility is what got us in the place we're in now. We'll have plenty of time to be united after Ron's out......even though I'm a NOBP person.

[kathy88]

Rocco, anyone who bails on Ron immediately before his state's key convention when Ron might take the delegates and much media, in Ron's last campaign, is an enemy of mine. I look forward to the movement throwing up Ron's like again, but I'm not going to hold my breath for that day.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ yep

[sailingaway]

So what then happens if, lets say, RP does win at the convention but our movement fizzles out and the republican establishment will no longer back him? He would have made a MASSIVE political sacrifice and accomplished nothing. He would then, for the rest of his political career, have to advance without the help of the party machine, which is a massive disadvantage. This is all with ZERO tangible benefit as RP will not win the nomination, so why would any serious politician even consider it? We're talking about somebody siding with a group trying to overthrow the state GOP, it's not as if RP is causing no trouble in Maine GOP politics. Really, the amount of outrage over this political choice any idiot could make is concerning.

this man means nothing to me next to his back stabbing Ron. And you don't know Ron won't win the nomination. It is a slim chance but dependent SPECIFICALLY on whether Ron gets momentum in the next week or so. And he is doing his best to undermine that.

[jbauer]

Dude, there's endorsments from politicians every day for Ron. All this guy had to do was keep his dump truck of a mouth shut. Now he's pretty much pissed on a hornets nest, not something I'd recomend.

So what then happens if, lets say, RP does win at the convention but our movement fizzles out and the republican establishment will no longer back him? He would have made a MASSIVE political sacrifice and accomplished nothing. He would then, for the rest of his political career, have to advance without the help of the party machine, which is a massive disadvantage. This is all with ZERO tangible benefit as RP will not win the nomination, so why would any serious politician even consider it? We're talking about somebody siding with a group trying to overthrow the state GOP, it's not as if RP is causing no trouble in Maine GOP politics. Really, the amount of outrage over this political choice any idiot could make is concerning.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

Rather then go after this guy and try to hurt his political career maybe staying positive and rewarding those that stand with Ron Paul would be more effective. We could show this turncoat that he made a bad decision by strongly supporting those that stand with Ron Paul.

Both. But people who lie to me are much worse than people who disagree with me. I would donate to his opponent who is open about their (same) views rather than let this dirtbag continue lies when convenient for HIM.

Rocco, anyone who bails on Ron immediately before his state's key convention when Ron might take the delegates and much media, in Ron's last campaign, is an enemy of mine.

Same here. If you run for office and that will be your strategy Rocco, save us the trouble and let us know up front.

How many of you guys are hurting for money? What would you so if Romney cameup to you and offered you a blank check.. knowing you have a family to feed. Maybe this guy sold out for those reasons. Maybe he was forced to do this because they threatened his life or family members?

Good. Then now he is where he belongs. When my friends start selling me out, they are no longer my friends. That's exactly how that works.

I'd imagine he could have had our support when needed. Not anymore.

And I agree with Kathy88 that we should be keeping track of this someplace because I will be happy to actively work against people who either deceptive or unprincipled. He's either one or the other.

[Rocco]

Of course, don't respond to my points, just insult me.

Clearly loyalty and simple decency mean nothing to you. You'd fit in well in the corrupt GOP, but not this movement.

Jump on board or get left behind.

[bluesc]

Of course, don't respond to my points, just insult me.

Your points amount to "Screw decency and loyalty, THE MAN WAS ABOUT TO POTENTIALLY LOSE HIS POWER!"

What is a man who gives up all principles to get reelected? An establishment Republican.

$#@! him.

[kathy88]

So what then happens if, lets say, RP does win at the convention but our movement fizzles out and the republican establishment will no longer back him? He would have made a MASSIVE political sacrifice and accomplished nothing. He would then, for the rest of his political career, have to advance without the help of the party machine, which is a massive disadvantage. This is all with ZERO tangible benefit as RP will not win the nomination, so why would any serious politician even consider it? We're talking about somebody siding with a group trying to overthrow the state GOP, it's not as if RP is causing no trouble in Maine GOP politics. Really, the amount of outrage over this political choice any idiot could make is concerning.

No, what we are talking about is someone who used the "Ron Paul Republican/Tea Party guy" meme to get elected and turned into an establishment POS at the first opportunity.

[Rocco]

I am FOR advancing the liberty movement, not making stupid political decisions that endanger your ability to accomplish anything on liberties behalf. If this gentlemen is attending the state convention, he had to do this or else he would either A. Be a liar because he was on record endorsing RP before switching or B. He would work with us and, if we fail and the establishment retains power, be ostracized by the rest of the GOP.

This is the definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[kathy88]

I am FOR advancing the liberty movement, not making stupid political decisions that endanger your ability to accomplish anything on liberties behalf. If this gentlemen is attending the state convention, he had to do this or else he would either A. Be a liar because he was on record endorsing RP before switching or B. He would work with us and, if we fail and the establishment retains power, be ostracized by the rest of the GOP.

This is the definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Ron has been ostracized by the $#@!ING GOP for 30 years, and HE HAS NEVER "taken one for the team."

[Rocco]

By endorsing presumed GOP nominee Romney, thereby not alienating his entire party and preserving his political capital, he is positioning himself to make advancements for liberty in the future. He will continue to have a seat at the table, which means liberty will continue to have a voice in the Maine GOP. Am I GLAD to hear he endorsed Romney? No, but it's a basic political calculation that it's misguided to be upset at him over.

Your points amount to "Screw decency and loyalty, THE MAN WAS ABOUT TO POTENTIALLY LOSE HIS POWER!"

What is a man who gives up all principles to get reelected? An establishment Republican.

$#@! him.

[kathy88]

By endorsing presumed GOP nominee Romney, thereby not alienating his entire party and preserving his political capital, he is positioning himself to make advancements for liberty in the future. He will continue to have a seat at the table, which means liberty will continue to have a voice in the Maine GOP. Am I GLAD to hear he endorsed Romney? No, but it's a basic political calculation that it's misguided to be upset at him over.

So you are still convinced this man is concerned with Liberty after endorsing Romney? Perhaps politics isn't for you.

[69360]

How many of you guys are hurting for money? What would you so if Romney cameup to you and offered you a blank check.. knowing you have a family to feed. Maybe this guy sold out for those reasons. Maybe he was forced to do this because they threatened his life or family members?

Do you have principles? I do.

[Blue]

Glad to see most people in this thread feel the same way about this as I do.

DESTROY THE TRAITOR

[bluesc]

By endorsing presumed GOP nominee Romney, thereby not alienating his entire party and preserving his political capital, he is positioning himself to make advancements for liberty in the future. He will continue to have a seat at the table, which means liberty will continue to have a voice in the Maine GOP. Am I GLAD to hear he endorsed Romney? No, but it's a basic political calculation that it's misguided to be upset at him over.

He stabbed Ron in the back. What the $#@! does he know about liberty? Where is Rand endorsing Romney?

You're basically saying he can do no wrong because he claims to be a liberty candidate. I draw the line at stabbing the only liberty candidate running for President in the back.

So, his smart move just alienated a large contingent of people, and he is going to lose reelection anyway. I'll enjoy watching it.

[Rocco]

EXACTLY! Thank you Kathy, that is my ENTIRE point! Why was Ron ostracized by the GOP? Because he never showed any loyalty at all to the GOP, he openly criticized GOP leaders and policies, and we wonder why the perception is we aren't "real" republicans. That matters to these people, being disloyal to the GOP to them is equal to being disloyal to the liberty movement for you. We want to create a NEW generation of leaders who will be able to accomplish legislative achievements because they aren't perceived as outsiders in the way Dr Paul is.

Ron has been ostracized by the $#@!ING GOP for 30 years, and HE HAS NEVER "taken one for the team."

[bluesc]

EXACTLY! Thank you Kathy, that is my ENTIRE point! Why was Ron ostracized by the GOP? Because he never showed any loyalty at all to the GOP, he openly criticized GOP leaders and policies, and we wonder why the perception is we aren't "real" republicans. That matters to these people, being disloyal to the GOP to them is equal to being disloyal to the liberty movement for you. We want to create a NEW generation of leaders who will be able to accomplish legislative achievements because they aren't perceived as outsiders in the way Dr Paul is.

$#@!. That. Noise.

[Rocco]

Yes, him labeling himself a liberty candidate is the whole reason I support him. No, the reason he's a liberty candidate is because he studied at a school about Austrian Economics, endorsed RP when he still had a chance, and though I don't know his record his original endorsement of Dr Paul shows to me who his ideal candidate is.

We're having the pragmatism vs. purity debate, it's one that we often have in the liberty movement, and I personally fall on the side of purity. I wouldn't endorse Mitt. But to ostracize somebody for being on the pragmatism side of the debate is insane.

He stabbed Ron in the back. What the $#@! does he know about liberty? Where is Rand endorsing Romney?

You're basically saying he can do no wrong because he claims to be a liberty candidate. I draw the line at stabbing the only liberty candidate running for President in the back.

So, his smart move just alienated a large contingent of people, and he is going to lose reelection anyway. I'll enjoy watching it.

[69360]

Glad to see most people in this thread feel the same way about this as I do.

DESTROY THE TRAITOR

Just voting him out is sufficient.

[bluesc]

Yes, him labeling himself a liberty candidate is the whole reason I support him. No, the reason he's a liberty candidate is because he studied at a school about Austrian Economics, endorsed RP when he still had a chance, and though I don't know his record his original endorsement of Dr Paul shows to me who his ideal candidate is.

We're having the pragmatism vs. purity debate, it's one that we often have in the liberty movement, and I personally fall on the side of purity. I wouldn't endorse Mitt. But to ostracize somebody for being on the pragmatism side of the debate is insane.

He endorsed Ron Paul and then stabbed him in the back. GTFO.

[Rocco]

Just like Palin and Cain originally endorsed Newt, just like everyone who endorsed a GOP candidate before Romney did before Romney became the presumed nominee. This is so common that it's basically academic at this point, and whether or not you agree with that there's no doubt that it's done for a reason; party loyalty. It basically amounts to a loyalty pledge to the GOP to endorse the presumed nominee after you endorsed a losing opponent of his.

He endorsed Ron Paul and then stabbed him in the back. GTFO.

[kathy88]

EXACTLY! Thank you Kathy, that is my ENTIRE point! Why was Ron ostracized by the GOP? Because he never showed any loyalty at all to the GOP, he openly criticized GOP leaders and policies, and we wonder why the perception is we aren't "real" republicans. That matters to these people, being disloyal to the GOP to them is equal to being disloyal to the liberty movement for you. We want to create a NEW generation of leaders who will be able to accomplish legislative achievements because they aren't perceived as outsiders in the way Dr Paul is.

No, we want to push the GOP back to its original ideals they have strayed so far from. There is no room in that plan for supporting another cardboard cutout bankster shill. WE are the real Republicans. THEY are not. RON is a real Republican. We are taking the party back from THEM. We want to create a new generation of leaders that ACTUALLY practice what they PREACH without deals, games, lies and backstabbing. YOU don't get it.

[bluesc]

Just like Palin and Cain originally endorsed Newt, just like everyone who endorsed a GOP candidate before Romney did before Romney became the presumed nominee. This is so common that it's basically academic at this point, and whether or not you agree with that there's no doubt that it's done for a reason; party loyalty. It basically amounts to a loyalty pledge to the GOP to endorse the presumed nominee after you endorsed a losing opponent of his.

You're still preaching loyalty to the GOP. Are you even aware of what website you are posting on right now?

If you're even comparing him to Palin and Cain, how can you consider him a "liberty candidate"?

[lib3rtarian]

EXACTLY! Thank you Kathy, that is my ENTIRE point! Why was Ron ostracized by the GOP? Because he never showed any loyalty at all to the GOP, he openly criticized GOP leaders and policies, and we wonder why the perception is we aren't "real" republicans. That matters to these people, being disloyal to the GOP to them is equal to being disloyal to the liberty movement for you. We want to create a NEW generation of leaders who will be able to accomplish legislative achievements because they aren't perceived as outsiders in the way Dr Paul is.

What the $#@! are you talking about? If Ron showed "loyalty" towards the GOP and was sucking the collective GOP cock every time, we wouldn't have THIS movement now. We have this movement exactly because we have an incorruptible spokesperson who stood against all odds and voted ALONE for the Constitution when the whole sellout GOP was inflating their wallets and selling this country out. I don't care about being disloyal to the GOP, I care about being disloyal to the Constitution! If your own party is being disloyal to the Constitution and the country, then you are just another tool in the shed if you stick with the party. We need people who will swim against the tide, not with the tide.

[69360]

Just like Palin and Cain originally endorsed Newt, just like everyone who endorsed a GOP candidate before Romney did before Romney became the presumed nominee. This is so common that it's basically academic at this point, and whether or not you agree with that there's no doubt that it's done for a reason; party loyalty. It basically amounts to a loyalty pledge to the GOP to endorse the presumed nominee after you endorsed a losing opponent of his.

Party loyalty would have been fine AFTER the convention. He backstabbed Ron the day before the Maine convention where Ron has a very real chance to take a plurality of delegates. That's a huge difference.

[Bastiat's The Law]

Don't email him. Destroy him.

X 10

[Rocco]

I agree with all of that, the problem is we aren't going to push the GOP back to its ideals by taking out anybody who disagrees with our obstructionist approach. I support the caucus/delegate strategy, but there is no doubt that there are liberty people who would rather not try to create more enemies in the GOP by being obstructionist. We are going to do it by supporting ALL liberty candidates, regardless of tactic, because no matter who they endorse in races if they advocate for the principles of liberty in their legislation THAT is what matters.

No, we want to push the GOP back to its original ideals they have strayed so far from. There is no room in that plan for supporting another cardboard cutout bankster shill. WE are the real Republicans. THEY are not. RON is a real Republican. We are taking the party back from THEM. We want to create a new generation of leaders that ACTUALLY practice what they PREACH without deals, games, lies and backstabbing. YOU don't get it.

[rich34]

Party loyalty would have been fine AFTER the convention. He backstabbed Ron the day before the Maine convention where Ron has a very real chance to take a plurality of delegates. That's a huge difference.

Couldn't agree more! It's a shame that we have some here that still don't get it. I'm fine with differing opinions and that loyalty talk AFTER the convention, but the fact is we're still fighting it out to see who the nominee will be. If some have already given up and want to support Romney then GTFO!

[truthspeaker]

Guys, we can't have in-fighting over this. I understand what Rocco's saying.

With this elected official, the best thing to do is challenge him during the primary, Tea Party style. If he allied himself with the Tea Party, he should be ready for it.

However, I do agree with the statement that if Romney was the GOP nominee, that this official has to show party solidarity. That goes for any of us who becomes elected as anything from a precinct chair to a state committeeman. If we enter the GOP as GOP leaders, we have to follow it through. Otherwise, next time, they'll ignore the liberty movement worse than before by saying: "Oh, they only cared about Paul. They never helped us defeat Obama". Those of us who won positions must show that we are republicans, otherwise next time the Liberty Candidate will not have a chance. (Now, if you didn't run for positions, that doesn't apply to you--Paul-voters only included).

How much easier was it this time around when we had our own people elected in those types of offices?

Sure, that State rep. did something disappointing, but we cannot lose sight of our goals. Freedom, liberty, sound economics, peace.

[Bastiat's The Law]

M.D. Harmon: Interview of Rep. Ryan Harmon

He even has the establishment chub, no doubt from eating the scraps they toss him.