What If We Paid Off The Debt (in 2000)?

[Travlyr]

There was no surplus to pay off the debt back then. Clinton and the Republicans STOLE from SS and Medicare trust funds to give this illusion that there was a tiny tiny surplus for a whole 3 years. BIG FREAKING DEAL!!! The general budget was still running a deficit.

The nasdaq internet bubble went pop in the late 90s which caused a mild recession left to Bush in 2001 leaving no imaginary surplus. On 9/11 the stock market crashed, spending kept increasing and two wars followed causing a wider deficit, hence more debt. The Left protected the FED policy to keeping interest rates low and protected their precious "affordable housing" plans that caused the housing bubble. It went pop and we got govt bailouts and the fed printed $15 trillion ($5 trillion went overseas). Nancy, Harry and Obama went ape shit and spent spent spent pushing federal spending from 19% of GDP to 24%. Nancy in just 4 years in power is responsible for a third of the entire debt, in just 4 freaking years people out of 100 since 1913 when the fed came to be and the stealing of Americans via the income tax system.

We are in trouble!!! The government will collapse financially. We just don't know when.

Whenever these douche bags give any projections years out, they are always always always wrong in the wrong direction. America keeps getting screwed because the beast is out of control.

Yep, it is all an illusion until the dollar is clearly defined. It will be better if we implement honest sound money before the collapse. The more people who understand sound money, the better. "The Purse & The Sword"

Competing currencies, repudiate the debt, and force employers and governments to use honest sound money.

[enoch150]

Because the dollar is undefined. What is a dollar?

This?

Or paper things? Or electronic entries?

I guess I should have said Federal Reserve Notes. "This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private".

[Paul Or Nothing II]

Sure they do. What is even more appalling is people making this ^^ claim while the Fed has never been audited. Sure they do.

Why don't you answer these questions Paul or Nothing II,

My simple point is that the perception spread by some conspiracy theorists on the Internet that - Fed is looting the helpless government - is fallacious, the fact is that Fed IS part of the government & it's the government that ultimately reaps the benefits of all this money-creation & everything, including the "profits" that Fed makes

This is why Ron Paul always blames the GOVERNMENT just as much as he blames Fed because he understands that Fed is just another part of government's trickery

It has to be understood that many are spreading this "Fed is looting the helpless government" perception to push their agenda of Congress-issued paper-money, which is more of the same, & therefore the real nature of the relationship between Fed & government needs to be brought out at every instance

[Travlyr]

I guess I should have said Federal Reserve Notes. "This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private".

I'd be fine with paying off the debt in Federal Reserve Notes as long as they quit putting people in jail for using other currencies, working without licenses or permits, or growing weeds. As a matter of fact, the Fed could write the entire debt off with one big note. Just accurately calculate the amount of the debt, print it out on nice letterhead stationary, hand it to the creditors, and call it paid in full.

[Travlyr]

My simple point is that the perception spread by some conspiracy theorists on the Internet that - Fed is looting the helpless government - is fallacious, the fact is that Fed IS part of the government & it's the government that ultimately reaps the benefits of all this money-creation & everything, including the "profits" that Fed makes

This is why Ron Paul always blames the GOVERNMENT just as much as he blames Fed because he understands that Fed is just another part of government's trickery

It has to be understood that many are spreading this "Fed is looting the helpless government" perception to push their agenda of Congress-issued paper-money, which is more of the same, & therefore the real nature of the relationship between Fed & government needs to be brought out at every instance

I would have preferred that you answer his questions. Are you referring to what Ellen Brown and Bill Still advocate?

In any case, the Federal Reserve System was designed by international banker Paul Warburg in conspiracy with Senator Nelson Aldrich, et.al. to create the Fed. That conspiracy did take place at Jekyll Island in November 1910. The conspirators admitted it.

Nonetheless, the Federal Reserve is an unconstitutional organization. We don't need to end the government. As a matter of fact we can't end the government, but we can force businesses and government to use constitutional honest sound money.

[Paul Or Nothing II]

There was no surplus to pay off the debt back then. Clinton and the Republicans STOLE from SS and Medicare trust funds to give this illusion that there was a tiny tiny surplus for a whole 3 years. BIG FREAKING DEAL!!! The general budget was still running a deficit.

The nasdaq internet bubble went pop in the late 90s which caused a mild recession left to Bush in 2001 leaving no imaginary surplus. On 9/11 the stock market crashed, spending kept increasing and two wars followed causing a wider deficit, hence more debt. The Left protected the FED policy to keeping interest rates low and protected their precious "affordable housing" plans that caused the housing bubble. It went pop and we got govt bailouts and the fed printed $15 trillion ($5 trillion went overseas). Nancy, Harry and Obama went ape shit and spent spent spent pushing federal spending from 19% of GDP to 24%. Nancy in just 4 years in power is responsible for a third of the entire debt, in just 4 freaking years people out of 100 since 1913 when the fed came to be and the stealing of Americans via the income tax system.

We are in trouble!!! The government will collapse financially. We just don't know when.

Whenever these douche bags give any projections years out, they are always always always wrong in the wrong direction. America keeps getting screwed because the beast is out of control.

+1

Nicely said

Yep, it is all an illusion until the dollar is clearly defined. It will be better if we implement honest sound money before the collapse. The more people who understand sound money, the better. "The Purse & The Sword"

Competing currencies, repudiate the debt, and force employers and governments to use honest sound money.

The concept of "dollar" needs to be rendered irrelevant & destroyed & that's exactly what Ron Paul believes & hopes to do by establishing competing currencies, which then would be measured in weights - grams & ounces for gold/silver/etc - & the concept of "dollar" would no longer be needed anyway

Competing currencies is good

Repudiation of national debt might spark WWIII if many of the sovereign-nations are still holding billions & trillions in US debt - but I'm not opposed to such repudiation in principle since it's NOT a voluntary contract & hence anti-liberty

There's nothing wrong with people mandating the government to accept certain currency

BUT employers or ANYBODY should NOT be FORCED to accept anything as money, it should be left up to private individuals & their private contracts to decide upon the currencies they want to deal in

[Travlyr]

+1

Nicely said



The concept of "dollar" needs to be rendered irrelevant & destroyed & that's exactly what Ron Paul believes & hopes to do by establishing competing currencies, which then would be measured in weights - grams & ounces for gold/silver/etc - & the concept of "dollar" would no longer be needed anyway

Competing currencies is good

Repudiation of national debt might spark WWIII if many of the sovereign-nations are still holding billions & trillions in US debt - but I'm not opposed to such repudiation in principle since it's NOT a voluntary contract & hence anti-liberty

There's nothing wrong with people mandating the government to accept certain currency

BUT employers or ANYBODY should NOT be FORCED to accept anything as money, it should be left up to private individuals & their private contracts to decide upon the currencies they want to deal in

Contracts have to be enforced. That is what I meant by force business and employers to deal honestly with the public.

[enoch150]

I'd be fine with paying off the debt in Federal Reserve Notes as long as they quit putting people in jail for using other currencies, working without licenses or permits, or growing weeds. As a matter of fact, the Fed could write the entire debt off with one big note. Just accurately calculate the amount of the debt, print it out on nice letterhead stationary, hand it to the creditors, and call it paid in full.

Ok. But that doesn't answer my question:

define debt what is it measured in?
pay off with what commodity?

It's measured and paid off in Federal Reserve Notes. Why is this a question?

[Travlyr]

Ok. But that doesn't answer my question:

define debt what is it measured in?
pay off with what commodity?

It's measured and paid off in Federal Reserve Notes. Why is this a question?

Federal Reserve Notes are undefined too. They have different values today than they did yesterday (inflation).

[Paul Or Nothing II]

Just accurately calculate the amount of the debt, print it out on nice letterhead stationary, hand it to the creditors, and call it paid in full.

That would cause hyperinflation & possibly WWIII since so many of the sovereign-nations are holding billions & trillions worth of US-debt as well as dollar-reserves, which would be worthless all of a sudden

In fact, Germany tried to do a similar thing after WWI & tried to pay off by just creating more & more money & it was one of the worst hyperinflations in history, it pretty much destroyed the country & then people, being impoverished & helpless, looking for answers, fell for the promises of socialism & Hitler

This is exactly what Paul is trying to PREVENT by constantly railing about collapse of the dollar