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Thread: The Border Wall: Keeping us all in

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Rand Paul Opposes Trump’s Emergency Declaration, Likely Providing Decisive Vote

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/03/u...rand-paul.html

    Rand Paul is blowing smoke on this one. For those saying the President cannot use money already appropriated by Congress see: 10 U.S. Code 2808 and 33 U.S. Code 2293
    Following these statutes, the President would be acting within the law.


    Titled "construction authority in the event of a declaration of war or national emergency," 10 U.S. Code 2808 states that under conditions that require the use of the armed forces, the president may authorize the secretaries of the military "to undertake military construction projects, not otherwise authorized by law that are necessary to support such use of the armed forces." The projects cannot exceed the military construction budget, in this case, $10.3 billion.


    The other statute is 33 U.S. Code 2293, which deals with reprogramming funds during national emergencies. The law states that the president, during a national emergency, can stop the construction, maintenance or repair of any Army civil works projects that he deems nonessential, and apply those resources, including money, materials and personnel, to build projects . . .

    I guess, Rand Paul believes there is no invasion taking place at our southern border, which can be construed as a national emergency.



    JWK

    It was 2019 when an ongoing invasion of America’s borders swelled to tens of thousands a month, not a shot was fired to defend the borders of the United States, and America’s domestic enemies, many socialists and communists in Congress, pushed forward with their attempt in conquering a prosperous and freedom loving people.



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    Rand Paul is blowing smoke on this one. For those saying the President cannot use money already appropriated by Congress see: 10 U.S. Code 2808 and 33 U.S. Code 2293
    Following these statutes, the President would be acting within the law.


    Titled "construction authority in the event of a declaration of war or national emergency," 10 U.S. Code 2808 states that under conditions that require the use of the armed forces, the president may authorize the secretaries of the military "to undertake military construction projects, not otherwise authorized by law that are necessary to support such use of the armed forces." The projects cannot exceed the military construction budget, in this case, $10.3 billion.


    The other statute is 33 U.S. Code 2293, which deals with reprogramming funds during national emergencies. The law states that the president, during a national emergency, can stop the construction, maintenance or repair of any Army civil works projects that he deems nonessential, and apply those resources, including money, materials and personnel, to build projects . . .
    You just quoted the laws you cited. Did you not see that they stipulate explicitly that the president can only do that "under conditions that require the use of the armed forces"?

    Building a border wall does not require the use of the armed forces.

    Also, statutes do not overrule the Constitution itself.



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    You just quoted the laws you cited. Did you not see that they stipulate explicitly that the president can only do that "under conditions that require the use of the armed forces"?

    Building a border wall does not require the use of the armed forces.

    Also, statutes do not overrule the Constitution itself.


    Our military is needed to protect the ongoing invasion of our southern border.



    JWK

    Border patrol agents apprehended more than 100,000 people trying to enter the country illegally in just October and November of last year. LINK

  6. #34
    Invasion? Even Trump says the border is secure (see sig)



    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    "Yeah, I have to say these guys(trolls) are pretty sharp. Sort of good to get a challenge and sharpen your thoughts." NorthCarolinaLiberty

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    You just quoted the laws you cited. Did you not see that they stipulate explicitly that the president can only do that "under conditions that require the use of the armed forces"?
    See 33 U.S. Code 2293

    (a) Termination or deferment of civil works projects; application of resources to national defense projectsIn the event of a declaration of war or a declaration by the President of a national emergency in accordance with the National Emergencies Act [50 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.] that requires or may require use of the Armed Forces, the Secretary, without regard to any other provision of law, may (1) terminate or defer the construction, operation, maintenance, or repair of any Department of the Army civil works project that he deems not essential to the national defense, and (2) apply the resources of the Department of the Army’s civil works program, including funds, personnel, and equipment, to construct or assist in the construction, operation, maintenance, and repair of authorized civil works, military construction, and civil defense projects that are essential to the national defense.


    It seems quite clear to me the ongoing invasion of our southern border may require the use of our military.


    JWK


  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    Rand Paul is blowing smoke on this one. For those saying the President cannot use money already appropriated by Congress see: 10 U.S. Code 2808 and 33 U.S. Code 2293
    Following these statutes, the President would be acting within the law.


    Titled "construction authority in the event of a declaration of war or national emergency," 10 U.S. Code 2808 states that under conditions that require the use of the armed forces, the president may authorize the secretaries of the military "to undertake military construction projects, not otherwise authorized by law that are necessary to support such use of the armed forces." The projects cannot exceed the military construction budget, in this case, $10.3 billion.


    The other statute is 33 U.S. Code 2293, which deals with reprogramming funds during national emergencies. The law states that the president, during a national emergency, can stop the construction, maintenance or repair of any Army civil works projects that he deems nonessential, and apply those resources, including money, materials and personnel, to build projects . . .

    I guess, Rand Paul believes there is no invasion taking place at our southern border, which can be construed as a national emergency.



    JWK

    It was 2019 when an ongoing invasion of America’s borders swelled to tens of thousands a month, not a shot was fired to defend the borders of the United States, and America’s domestic enemies, many socialists and communists in Congress, pushed forward with their attempt in conquering a prosperous and freedom loving people.
    This is what I was thinking about. Trump is not actually asking for extra money, just using the money already allocated for the defense of the nation to build the wall. Again, I think the dems will sue and he will lose or get delayed until he is kicked out of office in Nov 2019
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Invasion? Even Trump says the border is secure (see sig)


    Your chart, ending in 2016, does not take into account the huge surge in illegal border crossings which began near the end [October] of 2018

    Border Crossings Climbing

    NPR’s “fact check” — like countless others — dismissed Trump’s claim as false because “illegal border crossings in the most recent fiscal year (ending in September 2018) were actually lower than in either 2016 or 2014.”

    What they aren’t telling you is border patrol agents apprehended more than 100,000 people trying to enter the country illegally in just October and November of last year. Or that that number is way up from the same two months the year before.

    Nor do they mention that last year, the border patrol apprehended more than half a million people trying to get into the country illegally. And that number, too, is up from the year before.
    LINK

    The fact is, illegal border crossings are surging.


    JWK


    The Democrat and Republican Leadership have conspired, for 35 years, to keep the border opened, and today’s funding Bill continues to allow and encourage illegal border crossings.

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    This is what I was thinking about. Trump is not actually asking for extra money, just using the money already allocated for the defense of the nation to build the wall. Again, I think the dems will sue and he will lose or get delayed until he is kicked out of office in Nov 2019
    The main pot of money he wants access to was allocated to fight drugs coming into the country. He wants to take it away in the name of fighting drugs coming into the country. Even though most drugs come thorough legal points of entry where security is already tight.


    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    "Yeah, I have to say these guys(trolls) are pretty sharp. Sort of good to get a challenge and sharpen your thoughts." NorthCarolinaLiberty

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    Your chart, ending in 2016, does not take into account the huge surge in illegal border crossings which began near the end [October] of 2018

    Border Crossings Climbing

    NPR’s “fact check” — like countless others — dismissed Trump’s claim as false because “illegal border crossings in the most recent fiscal year (ending in September 2018) were actually lower than in either 2016 or 2014.”

    What they aren’t telling you is border patrol agents apprehended more than 100,000 people trying to enter the country illegally in just October and November of last year. Or that that number is way up from the same two months the year before.

    Nor do they mention that last year, the border patrol apprehended more than half a million people trying to get into the country illegally. And that number, too, is up from the year before.
    LINK

    The fact is, illegal border crossings are surging.


    JWK


    The Democrat and Republican Leadership have conspired, for 35 years, to keep the border opened, and today’s funding Bill continues to allow and encourage illegal border crossings.
    Actually a huge percent of those were people turning themselves in at legal checkpoints and asking for asylum- which is not illegal.

    From your own link:

    OFO inadmissibility metrics include: individuals encountered at ports of entry who are seeking lawful admission into the United States but are determined to be inadmissible, individuals presenting themselves to seek humanitarian protection under our laws; and individuals who withdraw an application for admission and return to their countries of origin within a short timeframe.


    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    "Yeah, I have to say these guys(trolls) are pretty sharp. Sort of good to get a challenge and sharpen your thoughts." NorthCarolinaLiberty

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Exactly right.

    So therefore you do not have the right to import anybody, that will vote to take away my liberty or my property.
    I am not aware of any immigrant that has stolen property or voted to steal it away. Conversely, it was the government goons that took [forced] one of our meeting members property because she had a pretty stream in the backyard, at least a good 100’ away from the back of the house. Legal fees fighting sust-dev were so atrocious she had no choice but to split.

    But here you are advocating “government eminent domain”, which is repugnant to my signature.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    I am not aware of any immigrant that has stolen property or voted to steal it away. Conversely, it was the government goons that took [forced] one of our meeting members property because she had a pretty stream in the backyard, at least a good 100’ away from the back of the house. Legal fees fighting sust-dev were so atrocious she had no choice but to split.

    But here you are advocating “government eminent domain”, which is repugnant to my signature.
    Texans will be required to sacrifice their private property for the good of everybody else. To, you know, protect people's rights.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 03-04-2019 at 04:24 PM.


    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    "Yeah, I have to say these guys(trolls) are pretty sharp. Sort of good to get a challenge and sharpen your thoughts." NorthCarolinaLiberty

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Exactly right.

    So therefore you do not have the right to import anybody, that will vote to take away my liberty or my property.

    Until such time you can prove that is not the case, with voting bans and repeal of the welfare state for instance, you do not have the right to import anybody you feel like.
    ^^^THIS^^^

    And no foreigners have a "right" to come here.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    I am not aware of any immigrant that has stolen property or voted to steal it away.
    Then you are lying or ignorant.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Actually a huge percent of those were people turning themselves in at legal checkpoints and asking for asylum- which is not illegal.

    From your own link:
    There are 20+ MILLION already here, that number is an emergency all by itself and the caravans designed to overwhelm our defenses only make it all the more urgent.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    There are 20+ MILLION already here, that number is an emergency all by itself and the caravans designed to overwhelm our defenses only make it all the more urgent.
    Trump says he has stopped any caravans. Nothing to worry about. The border is tight.

    We now return you to your regularly scheduled fear mongering.


    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    "Yeah, I have to say these guys(trolls) are pretty sharp. Sort of good to get a challenge and sharpen your thoughts." NorthCarolinaLiberty

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Trump says he has stopped any caravans. Nothing to worry about. The border is tight.

    We now return you to your regularly scheduled fear mongering.


    A temporary improvement is not a permanent solution.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Then you are lying or ignorant.
    To protect private/business property rights, we must allow government to utilize eminent domain, not end incentives, and wall us in.

    Stay tuned for the next episode of “Shill-Logic”.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    To protect private/business property rights, we must allow government to utilize eminent domain, not end incentives, and wall us in.

    Stay tuned for the next episode of “Shill-Logic”.
    That is not what I said.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    It seems quite clear to me the ongoing invasion of our southern border may require the use of our military.
    Well, you're obviously wrong about that.

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Trump says he has stopped any caravans. Nothing to worry about. The border is tight.

    We now return you to your regularly scheduled fear mongering.
    What did the mods just get through telling you about name calling zippy?

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    Well, you're obviously wrong about that.

    Your solution?

    opcorn:

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    Your solution?

    opcorn:
    Either don't make promises never to do what the Constitution forbids you to do, or else, when you do make a promise saying that, keep your promise.

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    Well, you're obviously wrong about that.
    No he isn't.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    Either don't make promises never to do what the Constitution forbids you to do, or else, when you do make a promise saying that, keep your promise.
    lol
    Your solution to the influx of Illegals.......


    : popcorn:

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    lol
    Your solution to the influx of Illegals.......


    : popcorn:
    Repeal the laws that stop them from coming to America legally, and then illegal immigration will disappear.

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    Repeal the laws that stop them from coming to America legally, and then illegal immigration will disappear.
    Legalizing rape will make it disappear?



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    Repeal the laws that stop them from coming to America legally, and then illegal immigration will disappear.
    Ergo ; Open Borders.......?
    No thanks.

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    Legalizing rape will make it disappear?
    No. Rape is not defined by being deemed illegal by laws that human beings made up. Illegal immigration is.

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    No. Rape is not defined by being deemed illegal by laws that human beings made up. Illegal immigration is.
    No it isn't, territorial control is natural in humans and animals while rape is only found immoral by humans.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    I am not aware of any immigrant that has stolen property or voted to steal it away.
    Not a single one eh?

    Not one single immigrant, legal or otherwise, ever voted for bigger, more intrusive and more expensive government?

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