Gun recommendation for home defense? (Canada)

[Lishy]

Hey guys. I wish to become a gun owner to protect my home and family from intruders. However, I live in Quebec, Canada, and I wish to own a gun which will not pierce walls (As my home is connected with theirs..)


Any gun recommendations for what I can legally get here in Quebec, Canada? I hear a shotgun is good for my purposes since the spreaded shot doesn't pierce?

I don't want something suspicious though, since Quebec is that one uptight gun-control province in Canada where they're the only ones demanding to keep the long-gun registry...

So what gun should I get to defend my home and family from intruders?

[brushfire]

Anything with enough power to stop a man will penetrate a wall, and possibly kill a family member

Always know your target, and whats behind it.

The shotgun will work fine with the right ammo, but as with anything, you should train. 20ga is a good choice for a shotgun. You'll get a wound that is very close to a 12ga but much less recoil. http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob120.html

Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 will do - take your pick, as far as pump actions go. I like the 870 myself.

Good luck

[CaptainAmerica]

shotgun that makes a loud "chik chik" to scare anyone away

[JebSanderson]

shotgun that makes a loud "chik chik" to scare anyone away

Why would you cock your shotgun and lose a shell?

[bolil]

You can half rack the first round. That way its kinda safe and you get the opportunity to rack the shotgun, getting the noise and keeping the round. I am more concerned about the sound in general... I would prefer a blinding light source and 12 ga pump, 12 inch barrel, Mossy of Remi. When I say blinding, I am talking about flood gate wattage to get the proper washout.

[azxd]

Why would you cock your shotgun and lose a shell?

[Lishy]

Seriously, I don't want to accidentally break something in my neighbor's house or hurt someone...

So, assuming something DOES pierce the wall, is there any particular gun which wouldn't be fatal to my neighbor?

[brushfire]

So, assuming something DOES pierce the wall, is there any particular gun which wouldn't be fatal to my neighbor?

Know your target and backdrop always applies... If the wall deviding your 2 homes is solid concrete, then your defense strategy should take this into consideration.

I personally prefer the handgun, but that's my preference. I did not suggest it as you said you were in Canada - I dont know Canadian laws, but for some reason I think handguns are illegal in Canada (I could be wrong - I seem to recall that changing).

The previously stated advice concerning training was very good - even better than the other suggestions as to which weapon to choose.

Best of luck to you in your research

[pauljmccain]

Don't get a shotgun unless you're planning to train tactically with it. The last thing you'll feel comfortable doing is poking a barrel around corners. And there's no way you're going to keep it stored safely and also have it ready to use unless you want a large gun safe by your bed.

Don't pump the shotgun to make a noise- if the intruder is armed, that just tells them where to look when you do swing that thing around the corner. Someone loudly, confidently, and firmly yelling "I am well trained and am prepared to kill you with my firearm right now, get out" is just as effective.

Get a 9mm or .45 handgun with a laser, good defense hollowpoint ammunition, which won't pierce walls, and a bio or "keypad" safe which keeps your firearm safely stored, but can be hidden from plain sight and also opened at a moment's notice.

[Verrater]

Don't get a shotgun unless you're planning to train tactically with it. The last thing you'll feel comfortable doing is poking a barrel around corners. And there's no way you're going to keep it stored safely and also have it ready to use unless you want a large gun safe by your bed.

Don't pump the shotgun to make a noise- if the intruder is armed, that just tells them where to look when you do swing that thing around the corner. Someone loudly, confidently, and firmly yelling "I am well trained and am prepared to kill you with my firearm right now, get out" is just as effective.

Get a 9mm or .45 handgun with a laser, good defense hollowpoint ammunition, which won't pierce walls, and a bio or "keypad" safe which keeps your firearm safely stored, but can be hidden from plain sight and also opened at a moment's notice.

Pretty much this, except for the fact hollow points will pierce walls, but that leads back to know your target, rule 4.
Shotguns are horribly unwieldy in hallways and around tight corners.
So unless you live in a studio apartment or a very open house, I'd wait on that.
The most important thing you can ever buy, is training and practice. Take a class and make sure that class has some focus on retention.
Know the laws and have a script. Practice it and know it by heart.
I'm not familiar with Canadian gun laws but if you are required to have a safe. Get something like Paul suggested.
http://www.gunsafereviews.org/wp-con...e-Gun-Safe.jpg

I abhor the biometric ones as they can be unreliable. Make sure you practice with the opening the safe. When your alarm goes off in the morning open the safe. Open it every morning when you first wake up. It will become like second nature and you wont have to worry as much about trying to remember the code or fumbling with the buttons in an emergency.

[alucard13mmfmj]

i assume with training and target practice there would be less chance of missing and piercing walls.

i hope canada is not like in the USA... where if you shoot to defend, you can get in trouble or get sued until you are bankrupted . or if you shoot a person that is of different skin color or is a minority... u are a racist.

[osan]

i hope canada is not like in the USA... where if you shoot to defend, you can get in trouble or get sued until you are bankrupted . or if you shoot a person that is of different skin color or is a minority... u are a racist.

This differs by state. In places if you shoot righteously you are immune from suits. There are "stand your ground" and "castle" laws on the books in many states such that you are not obliged by law to "retreat to the wall", which is rank stupidity.

[JebSanderson]

This differs by state. In places if you shoot righteously you are immune from suits. There are "stand your ground" and "castle" laws on the books in many states such that you are not obliged by law to "retreat to the wall", which is rank stupidity.

Most state have castle laws now, which protect homeowners to varying degrees. Best advice is to read up on the law in your state and know what is and what is not legal to protect yourself.

[tod evans]

I'm in the shotgun camp..

12ga for most guys and stronger women

20ga for smaller guys and most women

I like #6 shot followed by 00 buck.

[_b_]

I'm in the shotgun camp..

12ga for most guys and stronger women

20ga for smaller guys and most women

I like #6 shot followed by 00 buck.

Some 20ga shotguns have a smaller/lighter frame than the 12ga of the same model, so with a lighter load the felt recoil can still be similar to a 12 or even more with equivilant loads. So while a 20ga might fit better, it won't necessarily kick less.

[azxd]

i assume with training and target practice there would be less chance of missing and piercing walls.

i hope canada is not like in the USA... where if you shoot to defend, you can get in trouble or get sued until you are bankrupted . or if you shoot a person that is of different skin color or is a minority... u are a racist.

Less chance, yes ... But when the stress of life or death is facing you, very few will remain calm.

That's why you can read stories about a LEO shooting 20 rounds and not hitting the one who is shooting back at them.

typically,
Stress causes the body to react before the mind can be engaged.

But you are absolutely correct about training lowering the chance of a mishap ... When the mind takes control of the body, and muscle memory kicks in amazing things can happen ... But when that scared $hitless, shaking in the boots, uncontrolled reaction is controlling things ... No one knows what might happen.

Oh,
And,
You never shoot to defend ... You shoot to stop a threat that you feel will end your or a family members life ... Then you take responsibility for your decision.

Gotta read more thread, before I comment to the OP.

[osan]

Hey guys. I wish to become a gun owner to protect my home and family from intruders. However, I live in Quebec, Canada, and I wish to own a gun which will not pierce walls (As my home is connected with theirs..)

Good for you, but be damned sure to consult with a lawyer or other "proper authority" on the legalities of self-defense. In dumps like England self-defense is pretty much a crime that will get you into very hot water. Assuming Canada is not that bad, make sure you are confident that you have been given the right information. If perchance you are ever called upon to discharge your weapon whilst staving off an attack, you want to be reasonably certain that you will not be clapped into irons for having done so.

Any gun recommendations for what I can legally get here in Quebec, Canada? I hear a shotgun is good for my purposes since the spreaded shot doesn't pierce?

Shotguns are perhaps the best overall self-defense weapons, though some will argue this. Nevertheless they are well suited to the task, and perhaps in some ways better so than in the USA because as I recall you can buy short-barreled guns there down to 13". This may be good from several standpoints. Firstly, the weapon is shorter, making it more readily maneuverable in tight quarters. Secondly, the shorter barrels will most likely result in lower muzzle velocities (shorter time at pressure == slower mass exiting barrel). Thirdly, the shorter barrel will allow for a bit broader spread, which aids one when they are gushing with adrenaline, making aim slightly less critical. This does NOT mean you do not have to aim at all, but only that you have a little more margin for error. If you get a short barreled gun, you'd best get your hide to a range and fire at targets at varying distances so you will know precisely what you have going on with the gun in these respects.

Possible disadvantages to the short barreled gun are that they will be VERY loud and the compression wave coming off the muzzle will be more strongly felt. Two more reasons to get to the range and practice. Also bear in mind that there will be a very large difference in noise and shock effects between outside fire and that within a confined space. Get yourself some electronic "ears". Inexpensive sets are readily available. When you put them on and turn them on, they transmit all sound (will even amplify them) but turn off completely any time a loud noise with fast rise time is encountered, such as when you discharge a firearm. I use mine all the time and they are a true miracle of technology. These will allow you, given the lead time to actually get them on in a real situation, to hear what is going on in the house, for example, but not blow out your ear drums if you must shoot. This is a great advantage over an intruder because the blast will likely disorient him, giving you a brief moment to for a second shot while not suffering the same effect as he.

As for over penetration, that can be a problem because if you do not penetrate the intended target your life may be forfeit. You can use a lower powered load with smaller shot sizes. I like #4 buckshot because it delivers a lot of pellets (27 in a standard load) that are large enough to do the job but not as large as 00 or 000 buck which are in the 1/4" neighborhood and larger. KNow the general rules for shooting, one of which is to know what is behind your target. If you feel there is an area most likely to serve as a backstop in the event you must shoot, I would line the wall with some 16- or even 14-ga. sheet metal. For example, if you feel you are most likely to retreat to your bedroom, the wall by the door that would most likely be in the path of your shot can be reinforced in that manner, thereby minimizing the risk of penetrating the wall. It would not be terribly costly, could be hung such that it is readily removed if so desired, and can be painted or powder-coated the same color as the rest of the house to eliminate an eyesore.

Once again, make sure you know the law on such things, but all else equal I would not worry excessively about over penetration. If you justifiably need to shoot, then your very life is hanging in the balance and you cannot cloud your thinking with such worries. You have to be clear and present in order to neutralize the threat before you. Life can be a very messed up affair at times. At no time are you ever obliged to give your life away to anyone else, not even an innocent bystander. If law in Canada says otherwise, then I urge you to live somewhere else. No jokes. Any system of law that would ultimately call for you to go to prison for defending yourself, all protests to the contrary notwithstanding, is dangerously insane. Just my opinion. If, heaven forbid, you ever injured a third party in the defense of your own life, that guilt lies with your attacker and not you, no matter what any law to the contrary might say.

I don't want something suspicious though, since Quebec is that one uptight gun-control province in Canada where they're the only ones demanding to keep the long-gun registry...

What do you mean by "suspicious"?

If you want the most innocuous looking weapon (sporting purposes?), then a double barreled side-by-side gun may suit you. Be absolutely certain that you get a gun with automatic ejectors, which will kick the spent shells from the chambers when you open the weapon to reload. If you go this route, you'd better report back to us that you are practicing regularly with it - at LEAST once every two weeks for your first year, of not more often and if not longer. In a dark house, having just shot at someone, not having had the opportunity to get your ears on, head ringing wildly, adrenaline gushing in your veins, you CANNOT afford not to be well practiced in rapidly reloading the weapon by feel. I would strongly recommend you get at least half a dozen "snap caps", which in your case would be plastic objects shaped and sized like shot shells that you can use to dry-fire the weapon. You get in your bedroom, turn out the lights at night, make like you are shooting at someone, then reload the gun in pitch black by feel alone. You have a standard ammo set up such as a short bandolier-type holder that fixes to the stock so you have ammo right there where you need it. BOOM, BOOM, gun is opened, shells fly out, and you have two more in and the gun is locked and the safety immediately off. Do this over and over and over and over again until either I tell you "stop" or you decide to come to WV and murder me.

This last bit is absolutely crucial to saving your life and you MUST NOT shirk that responsibility to yourself and perhaps any family or guests that may be with you. This $#@! is serious as a heart attack and a side-by side gun is not the first tactical choice for such situations. So if you want to not be "suspicious" to "them" (not sure why you'd give a $#@! what they think, but everyone is different and Canada is not entirely rational on these matters AFAIK, so you may have good reason) and have a "nice" shotgun instead of an EvilleBabySlaughtering(tm) one, then you must do these sorts of drills so you will be prepared if the time ever comes. And no matter how well you train, you will never be fully prepared for what will ensue, so be aware of that as well. If you survive, you will have a PTS reaction that may not manifest until after the fact, possibly a day or more removed, so do not think you are "alright" because chances are you will not be. Just be aware of this and do not fear it - it is all part of being a human being to whom bad things have happened. You will recover.

So what gun should I get to defend my home and family from intruders?

See above. Barring that, I would get a pump gun. The Remington 870 is a good choice. Not too $$ at all, and super-reliable. They feed well ( a jam could be a life ending error for the shooter) and go bang when you pull the trigger - the two most important qualities for home defense.

See if you can shoot before buying. Try 12 and 20 ga. If you are not recoil sensitive, I would opt for 12 ga. - 20 otherwise. Do not buy a 16 ga for 2 reasons. First, ammunition is not common and second, they tend to kick like a mule. I am not at all recoil sensitive but when I was 16 I shot a friend's 16 ga. Franchi and it hurt. Never again.

[JebSanderson]

Thinking about this further, if you're in Canada chances are anyone who breaks in won't be armed with a firearm. Get a shotgun and have salt rock in your first shell. It'll sound like a regular shot and even hurt the attacker, but won't kill or penetrate your walls. Then you can have birdshot in your other shells in case you still need to convince the intruder to leave.

[DerailingDaTrain]

Thinking about this further, if you're in Canada chances are anyone who breaks in won't be armed with a firearm. Get a shotgun and have salt rock in your first shell. It'll sound like a regular shot and even hurt the attacker, but won't kill or penetrate your walls. Then you can have birdshot in your other shells in case you still need to convince the intruder to leave.

Criminals have guns in Canada too don't they?

[JebSanderson]

Criminals have guns in Canada too don't they?

Not usually. Gangs do, but petty thieves usually don't.

[Beorn]

Not usually. Gangs do, but petty thieves usually don't.

Funny. The concept of having gangs in Canada has never passed my mind.

I'm having fun thinking of gang names.

The not-so-nice nanooks

[JebSanderson]

Funny. The concept of having gangs in Canada has never passed my mind.

I'm having fun thinking of gang names.

The not-so-nice nanooks

It's usually not Canadian gangs. Lots of Chinese, Korean, Indian, etc gangs. Especially in British Colombia. Not so sure about out east.

[azxd]

Thinking about this further, if you're in Canada chances are anyone who breaks in won't be armed with a firearm. Get a shotgun and have salt rock in your first shell. It'll sound like a regular shot and even hurt the attacker, but won't kill or penetrate your walls. Then you can have birdshot in your other shells in case you still need to convince the intruder to leave.

Birdshot is for birds ... Period.

Lishy,
Post #8 is very hard to argue with ... Very solid advice !!!

If that's your house in post #4 ... Find out what the barrier is between your dwelling and the neighbor ... Just for some peace of mind.
Many of them have very solid construction, so you are not able to break into the neighbors area from your area ... You might even find out that there is brick/block between each area, and f that's the case, you should have absolutely no worries.

Keep in mind that any projectile is going to penetrate something, or it is not an effective defensive projectile.

My recommendation is as follows,
If you intend to practice regularly, get a pump action shotgun, or a semi-auto handgun.

If you do not plan on practicing much, get a double action revolver ... They are the most reliable, and with proper ammo, all of the above will suit your purpose.

The real key for your situation is going to be ammo selection, and determining what is between you and your neighbor.

If it's brick/block ... Pretty much any ammo choice will be fine, but if it is just a double layer of drywall, your choices will be more limited.

The #4 buckshot (not birdshot) or any modern hollowpoint will be a good choice ... But in all honesty, if you do not practice until you feel comfortable with the firearm you ultimately choose ... Just get a baseball bat.

Seriously !!!!
You will need to practice until you are comfortable ... Not only shooting, but also clearing a jam ... If you don't want to do this ... Get a double action revolver.
They are pretty much idiot proof from a jam perspective, and if the gun doesn't go bang ... Pull the trigger again.
They really are that simple to operate.

Best of luck in your choice !!
Keep us posted, and ask more questions, if needed.

[NikolayaRadchenkova]

Birdshot is for birds ... Period.

In a defensive sitituation your more than likely going to be in a hall or small room. Probably less than 7 yards. The birdshot has plenty of power to get the job done. You don't have to worry about over penetration like you do with buckshot. This is really great, especially if you live in an apartment or have a wife and kids in the next room.

[azxd]

In a defensive sitituation your more than likely going to be in a hall or small room. Probably less than 7 yards. The birdshot has plenty of power to get the job done. You don't have to worry about over penetration like you do with buckshot. This is really great, especially if you live in an apartment or have a wife and kids in the next room.

Please don't spread myths when someone is asking for suggestions about defensive firearms use ... Go with the experts, and/or perform your own tests.

I have and you'll not change my mind with the occasional fluke ... Got a friend in LE who shot a perp with his 38, years ago ... The man fell down instantly.
When they got to him, and proceeded to cuff him, the bullet fell out of his leather jacket ... NO blood, because there was ZERO penetration.

The Shotgun Meets the Box O' Truth

In fact, tests have shown that even #4 Buckshot lacks the necessary penetration
to reach the vital organs. Only 0 Buck, 00 Buck, and 000 Buck penetrate enough
to reach the vital organs.

Unless you expect to be attacked by little
birds, do not use birdshot. Use 00 Buck. It will do the job.

But
doesn't 00 Buck penetrate too much in interior walls to be a "safe" load in a
home?
Yes, it does penetrate a lot. But any load that is going to be
effective will need to penetrate walls to have enough power to penetrate bad
guys. If our only concern was to be sure we didn't penetrate walls, we would use
BB guns. However, BB guns will not stop bad guys.

Therefore, we must use
loads that will STOP bad guys, and this means that they will also penetrate
walls. So, be sure you hit the bad guy and do not shoot into walls where loved
ones are on the other side.

When To Use Birdshot
A
friend of AR15.com sends this:

"I saw a gunshot victim, about 5'
10" and 200 lbs, taken to the operating room with a shotgun wound to the chest.
He was shot at a range of six feet at a distance of just over the pectoralis
muscle. He was sitting on his front porch and walked to the ambulance. We
explored the chest after x-rays were taken. The ER doc had said 'buckshot'
wound, but this was obviously not accurate.

It was # 6 shot. There was a
crater in the skin over an inch in diameter. When the shot hit the level of the
ribs, it spread out about five inches. There was ONE pellet that had passed
between the ribs and entered the pericardium, but not damaged the heart at all.
As you say, 'use birdshot for little birds.'"

Penetration is what is needed to stop a threat, and in an area like where the OP lives, it will be very common for people to be wearing layers and/or heavy jackets.

Factor in meanness, or drugs, and your recommendation will only get someone beat to death with their own shotgun.

Besides,
The FBI requirements assume the bullet has to get through a bicep and/or half the width of the other guy's torso before it'll hit something important ... Rarely will one be afforded the perfect target, and 12 inches is the FBI recommended penetration level to reach things that stop a threat.

Obviously a face shot will stop most anyone, but people won't be posing so you can do such a thing.

And Dick Cheney shot his friend in the face with birdshot, and the man walked to the ambulance.



Look at this chart ... #4 Buckshot is about the same size as a 22 bullet, and therefore has the mass to obtain an adequate level of penetration IF suffieient energy is imparted against it.

Birdshot lacks enough mass to carry it's energy on more than thin skinned animals.
Hmm ... I guess if the bad guy is naked, it might work.

[deadfish]

Hey guys. I wish to become a gun owner to protect my home and family from intruders. However, I live in Quebec, Canada, and I wish to own a gun which will not pierce walls (As my home is connected with theirs..)


Any gun recommendations for what I can legally get here in Quebec, Canada? I hear a shotgun is good for my purposes since the spreaded shot doesn't pierce?

I don't want something suspicious though, since Quebec is that one uptight gun-control province in Canada where they're the only ones demanding to keep the long-gun registry...

So what gun should I get to defend my home and family from intruders?

It sounds like a shotgun would suit your needs best. I don't know Canadian laws, but you may also consider a simple revolver for the nightstand. If you are interested in learning more about firearms before jumping into it, I would recommend the hickok45 youtube channel. You'll learn a lot by watching his videos.

[psi2941]

wow some of the comments here, tell me some of u don't even own guns. anyways just get a handgun with hollow tip bullets or frangible bullet. it shouldn't punch though to your neighbor.

honestly though, the best "thing" for your neighbor is training. its not like video games where you shoot it and it goes there. accuracy is extremely hard with real life hand guns, your hands might be shaking, your might be breathing hard, etc.. of course if this is close range its really don't matter but still, at a training/class they will teach you how to hold a gun and think about the environment around you.

[tod evans]

its not like video games where you shoot it and it goes there. accuracy is extremely hard with real life hand guns, .

I chuckled when I read this.....

There was no such thing as a video game when I was a kid and all of us learned to shoot with our parents and family.


[edit]
I'm trying to learn video game shooting to play with my son and to me it's much more difficult than hitting what I aim at in real life.

[psi2941]

I chuckled when I read this.....

There was no such thing as a video game when I was a kid and all of us learned to shoot with our parents and family.


[edit]
I'm trying to learn video game shooting to play with my son and to me it's much more difficult than hitting what I aim at in real life.

your playing on a console, if you played on a keyboard and mouse you would rape your son and his friend.


honestly it was a wake up call for me when i bought my first AR-15. I shot 90-100 bullets at a 2 foot by 2 foot paper, at range of 250-300 yards. I only hit it 3 times.
i'm getting better but practicing is a bitch since i cost me and arm and a leg to use my AR-15, Oh yea OP get a 9mm
9mm is the cheapest best size ammo.

[Pericles]

The best thing that you can do in order not to put the neighbors at risk, is to hit the bad guy with the first shot.