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Thread: Let's work together and break down the Department of Education

  1. #1

    Let's work together and break down the Department of Education

    I'll get it started. It's time we fix this by getting rid of it, delicately.

    Here's the facts:
    Department of Education
    ~$65,000,000,000 annual cost
    ~4,200 employees

    Here is the bureaucratic breakdown of the DoE
    Office of the Secretary (OS)
    • Office of Communications and Outreach (OCO)
    • Office of the General Counsel (OGC)
    • Office of Inspector General
    • Office of Legislation and Congressional Affairs (OLCA)
    • Office for Civil Rights (OCR)
    • Institute of Education Sciences (IES) - $562 million (2008). 185 employees (2007)
      • National Center for Education Statistics (NCES)
        • National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP)
        • Education Resources Information Center (ERIC)


    • Office of Innovation and Improvement (OII)
    • Office of the Chief Financial Officer
    • Office of Management
    • Office of the Chief Information Officer
    • Office of Planning, Evaluation and Policy Development
      • Budget Service
    • Risk Management Service

    Chief Operating Officer
    Office of the Under Secretary (OUS)
    • Office of Postsecondary Education (OPE)
    • Office of Vocational and Adult Education (OVAE) - $617.4 million annually. 100 employees.
    • Office of Federal Student Aid (FSA) - $27.975 billion budget annually. With this budget, FSA provided $90.5 billion in assistance to students, nearly three times its budget, because it leverages private loans through loan guarantees and some interest subsidies, and because it receives program income from loan repayments. 1,100 employees
    • President's Advisory Board on Tribal Colleges and Universities (WHITCU)
    • President's Advisory Board on Historically Black Colleges and Universities (WHIHBCU)

    Office of the Deputy Secretary (ODS)
    • Office of Elementary and Secondary Education (OESE) - $16.6 billion (2009)
      • Office of Migrant Education (OME)
      • Student Achievement and School Accountability Programs (SASA)
      • President's Advisory Commission on Educational Excellence for Hispanic Americans
    • Office of English Language Acquisition, Language Enhancement and Academic Achievement for Limited English Proficient Students (OELA) - $255 million
    • Office of Special Education and Rehabilitative Services (OSERS) - $14 billion annually
      • National Institute on Disability and Rehabilitation Research (NIDRR)
      • Office of Special Education Programs (OSEP)
      • Rehabilitation Services Administration (RSA)
    • Office of Safe and Drug Free Schools (OSDFS) - $693,404,000 (2008)
    • Office of Innovation and Improvement - $1,299,000,000 (2008)

    Associated federal organizations
    • Advisory Councils and Committees
    • National Assessment Governing Board (NAGB)[4]
    • National Institute for Literacy (NIFL)[5]
    • Federal Interagency Committee on Education (FICE)

    Federally aided organizations
    • Gallaudet University
    • Howard University
    • National Technical Institute for the Deaf


    According to USAspending.gov., the Department of Education has spent $10.4 billion this decade on private contractors. A total of 7,222 private companies and other organizations were paid by the department for testing equipment and materials ($1.06 billion), debt collection services ($950 million), ADP systems analysis ($729 million) and banking services ($670 million), among other goods and services.

    In addition to spending money on contractors for services, ED allocates $90 billion annually for Federal Student Aid programs. Aside from the millions of college students who benefit, private lenders who participate in the programs receive substantial payments through loan fees, subsidized interest while students’ payments are deferred as they continue schooling and for six+ months afterward, and guaranteed payments in cases of default. SLM Corporation (Sallie Mae) is the largest student lender.

    The Office of Indian Education (OIE) allocates millions each year in grants to local education agencies (LEAs). In 2008, there were 96 formula grants to LEAs worth $1.9 million.

    In 2007, OIE awarded 45 professional development grants totaling more than $12 million. As well, the agency awarded 1,237 formula grants to local education agencies in 2007 that served 474,867 students.
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  3. #2
    A friend of mine in Illinois was talking on her FB tonight about how the school board did not show up to two of it's meetings this week with the teacher's union and now if they do not reach an agreement by Friday morning, the teachers will be striking that day. Now, I do not condone what the unions are doing either. But the board is also a useless tool that has been out of control for a very long time. How on earth did all the truly smart people of our world ever manage to get their educations without these boards helping them? I think a lot about the inventions made longggg before computers or any sort of help like that, and the people that did these amazing things with their own hands, minds, and imaginations - back in the day when you were lucky if you got to go to school, ONLY the rich and powerful went to any sort of post secondary institutions, and teachers often had classes of all ages at once to deal with. Those people managed to make amazing things and do amazing things without help of any unions or boards. Geezus.

    But back to my main point, I said that I do not like these 'one day strike' notices, especially at a time when families are struggling enough to keep food on the table and a roof over their head - and then whammo, the teachers go on strike with last minute notice, and tons of people have to stay home with their children. My friend said that the board did not show up to the meetings monday or tuesday - being stubborn of course and trying to make a point that they wont be bullied - and yes the teachers are the ones allowing the union to give strike notice etc etc.

    BUT I said 'the board better watch out or one of these days they will be deemed unneeded and unnecessary and find themselves out of a job'. My friend immediately responded that 'that should have happened a long time ago!'. I agree with her... but she is an Obama fan hugely. Not Ron Paul. Thinks he is a crazy old loon. Does she even know his opinion on things like the Dept of Education??

    All I can say in response, being from Canada and not knowing your system as well, is that teachers in BC have been on strike this week. Their base pay or average pay is almost DOUBLE the average pay of everyone else in Canada. Oh booooooooo hoooooooooo. They want a wage increase (amongst other things) but a teacher who has worked less than 8 years there makes almost 3 times more than I make in my job and Ive been at it for over 17 years and have to do a lot of the same paperwork (preschool), without the huge wage increases. I chose my position and it's pay, Im not asking for more so I can match them, Im saying to knock them down a few pegs and get REAL. The board is a pain in the tush for sure, but I cannot leave the teachers out of it. I support them but at the same time I can sit back and see the vicious circle they themselves have created. They want more money. they get it. Then the board and govt decide they should then have to do more work to make up for these pay increases. So then the teachers get a bigger work load of bureaucratic junk to file and they decide they should get paid more for it. They argue with the board and the govt and might get it. Then here we go again - they got more money, so the board and govt want them to do more to show for it... and around we go again and again. SOMEONE has to stop this train wreck. It is completely insane!

  4. #3
    I don't understand why this hasn't gotten a response, other than that it's a complex topic.

    My preliminary thoughts are:

    1) We can probably safely eliminate OSDFS because programs like D.A.R.E. have been scientifically proven to be next to worthless for ages now, and drug education can become a natural component of current health Ed programs if we remove the stigma about being honest.

    2) We can do the same with a lot of tech for schools. The tech makes little difference when the educators aren't up to a good standard, and there's an increasing push for "Bring Your Own Device" and "Learn At Home" policies. Moreover, little of the tech funds actually pay for computers that students can use - in my experience. They tend to go to administrators who "lose" them and are otherwise negligent in their use of them for school business.

    3) Obviously we kill anything related to standardized testing for students below the credit equivalent of Senior Year. Those tests are worthless and the "tech to the test" policies that result are killing good instruction.

    4) Funds for programs like "Literacy Circles" and SSR should be killed. Rather, teachers should make mention of books that are entertaining and important in class, and provide access to online links or library resources. Students learn more and learn better when self-directed. Many used SSR as "secret sleep/drawing time" when I was in school (a little over 10 years ago).

    5) Special student programs like Special Ed and Immigrant Ed should be collapsed into the normal education system. That is, these teachers and their programs shouldn't be made separate from normal teaching positions. They should be normal classroom instructors who have relevant teaching duties when they aren't working on their IEPs. Frankly, if there is a large group of students who are unable to integrate with other slow-paced students, then there should be a private program set up for them. All of the hurdles and double-checks in the public programs exacerbate costs and regulation for the entire district - which then get passed on in the form of taxes.

    6) Ethics testing programs should be eliminated. The focus on answering questions rather than creating an ethical culture in schools results in the same kind of "cram and forget" behavior that is common in colleges. These regulations are costly and ineffective. If we need to have documentation as a basis for legal action, then require all employees to sign an ethics contract.

    7) Innovation and continuing teacher education programs must remain, even if altered. This is the one area that I simply can't agree with libertarians on. The reason we have public schools in the first place is because only specialists make the time cost to develop these advanced skill sets. It's thanks to this research that our non-curriculum education programs have improved so much, and only highly educated teachers can answer the questions of advanced students.

    8) OCR also needs to stay in place.

    9) I'm on the fence about FSA. On the one hand, I'd like to keep a few programs that make it easier for economically struggling families to help their kids get an education. On the other hand, I'm not sure what the overall economic cost of the related filings, oversight, regulations, and guaranteed money are. It'd come down to an economic analysis.

    10) I'm on the fence about accreditation services. On the one hand, lack of oversight might result in scam schools. On the other hand, school reputation may again become the standard by which decisions are made, which wouldn't be a bad thing if people are informed enough about their choices (and not just subject to propaganda).
    Last edited by LimitedGovernment; 05-04-2012 at 05:45 AM.
    I do not respond to people who insult my character, who refuse to do independent research, or who do not follow the spirit of the cooperative principle.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperative_principle

    I might not continue to respond if your posts display primarily emotional reactions, because it is hard to have constructive dialogue in those kinds of situations.

    I'm a left-leaning independent; "left" meaning that I favor public-oriented policy, rather than private-oriented policy.

  5. #4
    "Delicately"?

    Our coffers are empty.....we're borrowing money from productive nations.

    I think Rands idea for the TSA could apply here too.

    Cut all federal funding.

  6. #5
    Let me break down the Department of Education a little more succintly:

    - Troublemakers
    - Time-wasters
    - Unskilled Labor


    the handy part is you can recycle this for any government agency and it applies just as well

  7. #6
    Personally, I don't enjoy the idea of so much funding to schools, hospitals, etc being cut when there are a gazillion other areas to cut that do not affect children or sick people so directly. I don't think the govt should have such a heavy hand in education, it's becoming crazier and crazier (up here in Canada at least, and I assume in the US as well), but at the same time, Education and health care always seem to be first on the chopping block, while other programs the govt runs get bigger or new ones are made. I know that ticks citizens off and sometimes it ticks me off too. There are many ways that money waste in schools could be dealt with, but all-too-often, the funding totals simply get cut and the schools are left to deal with it, while politicians push for whole new programs and committees for other projects across the country and vote themselves raises too. That drives me insane.

    For example, last year my province suddenly decided in April or May that they would no longer fund 'full day kindergarten'. They would continue funding half day kindergarten, but not full day. That threw a lot of people out of whack because we did not know for sure until May or June what was going to happen, and then parents were told that they would have to wait til the schools opened again in Sept to find out what they were going to do (half days Mon to Fri, or full-days every other day). In this era of both parents having to work to keep a roof over their families' heads, it was reallllly tough for parents here because they did not know until the first week of school what they would need to arrange for their children for care. Many said that they should not use school as a babysitter, and I agree to an extent - however when full day kindergarten had been in place for 5 years straight and at the very last minute it was cut, it did leave a lot of parents confused and worried. Almost all daycare centers were already full (we had one space open at my daycare!) and parents ended up having to take time off work to sort out childcare. It was a pain in the butt. However it was a multi-faceted problem.....

    I noticed that the alberta teachers had fought for retro-active pay on their contract and they won = and the total was almost EXACTLY the same as what the govt cut from the schools for full day kindergarten. Im not stupid - i know that this amount came from the coffers to pay the teachers and therefore none was left for kindergarten. AND the prov govt had voted itself a raise very recently as well. AND there were other new programs made with committees and everything else the tax payers had to foot the bill for. And the little kids and their working families got left in the dust.

    Maybe some people used it as a cheap babysitter - in my city it only cost $200 for a full year of full-day kindergarten, but from Sept 2011, parents paid $100 for half-day kindergarten and then had to pay upwards of $600 per MONTH for childcare (because it still worked out to full time care hours when the kids were there every other day plus all the holidays and 'professional development' days the schools are closed). But it was tough to work all that out. I know people that had stayed home to raise their kiddos and then got hired for jobs starting when their kids were going back to school who then had to either turn down the job, or pay half their new income to childcare immediately. I understand that the funding simply was not there - but I also see the huge massive amount of waste in other ridiculous programs and do not understand why the govt holds the hatchet to Education and health care before anything else. It boggles my mind.

    They need to dismantle pretty much every program they have ever built and only repair and replace what is necessary. I do not believe it makes one iota of difference if they cut some things (like the examples of the Dept of Education stuff listed above), but then continue to prop up other bloated programs in other sectors. What are we really saving? The money taken from Education seems to go to other crap instead and that doesnt help anyone, in my opinion.

    Oh and we have an accreditation system in Alberta now and it is RIDICULOUS. I spent from Sept to April working almost 2 hours every single day on paperwork. Just paperwork. In order to get re-accredited when our 3 year time was up. And it's just a daycare center, not a full out school. We have 19 month olds to 5 year olds. And yet the Accreditation process has been another money drain on the tax payers of the province. when we phone Edmonton for questions on the process, there is literally a list of 8 different people for 8 different 'departments' or sections and we have to figure out which person we need. OMFG. All of those people are paid through tax dollars courtesy of hard working Albertans. WHY? Huge waste. So they started building that in 2004, around the same time that the province decided to fund full-day kindergarten, but they axed kindergarten in 2011 because of the cost and KEPT accreditation and made it even bigger. Okay. that makes sense.

  8. #7
    Office of Federal Student Aid (FSA) - $27.975 billion budget annually. With this budget, FSA provided $90.5 billion in assistance to students, nearly three times its budget, because it leverages private loans through loan guarantees and some interest subsidies, and because it receives program income from loan repayments. 1,100 employees
    Actually there are quite a lot of fascist tie-ins with just this. My employer (150+ employees) is growing at breakneck speed right now from having gotten a couple contracts with 1st placement companies (some with 1500+ employees) which do nothing but service DOE FSA debt. Those 1st placement companies, in most cases, are doing nothing but farming the FSA accounts out to 2nd placement companies which do the actual debt servicing.

    So you can see that just your one sentence has spiderwebbed and nurtured/created a couple other industries, just from this one seemingly small area of largesse. I have no first hand experience with the other dozens of sentences you wrote, but I can only assume that there are at least a couple other DOE-related areas that are infested with leeches.

    And we can only assume that any other federal department is going to have similar parasite problems.

    Getting rid of DOE isn't a cakewalk. It's not 4200 employees that are going to have to readjust their lives and find productive work. It's tens of thousands.

    Would RP do it? Sure. Would we all dance for weeks about it? Sure.
    Would the naysayers' arguments - that kids won't get educated without a DOE - be vindicated? Absolutely not.
    That's hardly the point. It was never about education - if it was, they'd have shut it down after a decade.
    It's a make-work program. It's 4200 people digging ditches and filling them back in, and myriads more private-fascist people trying to help society adjust to these freshly dug holes all over the place.

    Those myriads aren't going to have an income for years after they get $#@!canned. And I'm sure we all know what the first response to this that hits the airwaves is going to be: "We need a program for these people".
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  9. #8
    Privatize and virtualize it all.
    Definition of political insanity: Voting for the same people expecting different results.



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