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Thread: Le Pen gets 20% in France -- much better than expected

  1. #1

    Default Le Pen gets 20% in France -- much better than expected

    Reuters: Far-rightist Marine Le Pen threw France's presidential race wide open on Sunday by scoring nearly 20 percent in the first round - votes that may determine the runoff between Socialist favourite Francois Hollande and conservative President Nicolas Sarkozy.



    Hollande led Sarkozy by about 29 to 26 percent in reliable computer projections broadcast after polling stations closed, and the two will meet in a head-to-head decider on May 6.



    But Le Pen's record score of 18-20 percent was the sensation of the night, beating her father's 2002 result and outpolling hard leftist Jean-Luc Melenchon, in fourth place on 11 percent. Centrist Francois Bayrou finished fifth on less than 10 percent.



    Le Pen, who took over the anti-immigration National Front in early 2011, wants jobs reserved for French nationals at a time when jobless claims are at a 12-year high. She also advocates abandoning the euro currency and restoring monetary policy to Paris.



    Her score reflected a surge in anti-establishment populist parties in many euro zone countries from Amsterdam to Athens as austerity and the debt crisis bite.



    Voter surveys show about half of her supporters would back Sarkozy in a second round and perhaps one fifth would vote for Hollande, making her a potential kingmaker in the runoff.



    Jean-Marie Le Pen's 16.9 percent score in the 2002 first round caused a political earthquake, knocking then Socialist Prime Minister Lionel Jospin out of the runoff and forcing left-wing voters to rally behind conservative Jacques Chirac.



    Sarkozy, 57, has painted himself as the safest pair of hands to lead France and the euro zone in turbulent times, but Sunday's vote appeared to be a strong rejection of his flashy style as well as his economic record.



    If Hollande wins on May 6, joining a small minority of left-wing governments in Europe, he has promised to lead a push for a bigger focus on growth in the euro zone, mainly by adding pro-growth clauses to a European budget discipline treaty.



    The prospect of a renegotiation of the pact is causing some concern in financial markets, as is Hollande's focus on tax rises over austerity at a time when sluggish growth is threatening France's ability to meet deficit-cutting goals.



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    She beat her dad's result by 3% so it's not really much of a shocker. Pretty much the status quo.

    20% of France is anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim, anti-Jew, anti-anyone not French....that sounds about right.
    Ron Paul: "For those who have asked, I freely confess that Jesus Christ is my personal Savior, and that I seek His guidance in all that I do."

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    Isn't this the woman who stalked Ron at a few events a while ago?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackTerrel View Post
    She beat her dad's result by 3% so it's not really much of a shocker. Pretty much the status quo.

    20% of France is anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim, anti-Jew, anti-anyone not French....that sounds about right.
    It's their country! Why should they not be allowed to protect their borders? The FRENCH are the only thing special about France, once all the European nations are homognized per NWO edict, then what? Some might call that genocide.

    WTF are you even doing here?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Coulter View Post
    It's their country! Why should they not be allowed to protect their borders? The FRENCH are the only thing special about France, once all the European nations are homognized per NWO edict, then what? Some might call that genocide.

    WTF are you even doing here?
    Using your logic the US should build two border fences, end all immigration legal and illegal, and ban anything that isn't considered "American" so that we don't become "homogenized".

    This woman has a few good views and then on the rest of it she comes off sounding like a female French version of Rick Santorum. The party she represents even tried to downplay the Holocaust.
    Last edited by DerailingDaTrain; 04-22-2012 at 04:41 PM.

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    Honestly I don't care about any of this... let France do whatever France is going to do.
    It's just an opinion... man...

  9. #8
    Moderatorus Emeritus Cowlesy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackTerrel View Post
    She beat her dad's result by 3% so it's not really much of a shocker. Pretty much the status quo.

    20% of France is anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim, anti-Jew, anti-anyone not French....that sounds about right.
    Are you saying Marine Le Pen is all those things? Just curious.
    "Your mother's dead, before long I'll be dead, and you...and your brother and your sister and all of her children, all of us dead, all of us..rotting in the ground. It's the family name that lives on. It's all that lives on. Not your personal glory, not your honor, but family." - Tywin Lannister


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    WW2 should serve you as a reminder that when Europe falls apart - your European banker controlled USA will follow into their wars.

    Ohh...and YEAH, Europe is falling apart - the rise of National Socialism is coming full swing and it will hit its heyday after their finances collapse.

    Quote Originally Posted by NoOneButPaul View Post
    Honestly I don't care about any of this... let France do whatever France is going to do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowlesy View Post
    Are you saying Marine Le Pen is all those things? Just curious.
    I think he is.


    Personally, if I lived in France she's the only candidate I would have even considered voting for.

  12. #11

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    Sorry guys if you are trying to compare this with US it is not going to work.
    In US you got 2 parties and in France and rest of continental Europe there are multiple parties.....
    So you gave up on this:
    H
    elp with documenting voting rights violations and election fraud abuses!?
    Shame. Nothing encourages crime than not punishing it. You are letting them get away with it.FAIL.


    Quote Originally Posted by orenbus View Post
    If I had to answer this question truthfully I'd probably piss a lot of people off lol, Barrex would be a better person to ask he doesn't seem to care lol.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Barrex View Post
    Sorry guys if you are trying to compare this with US it is not going to work.
    In US you got 2 parties and in France and rest of continental Europe there are multiple parties.....
    Yeah, there's the Communist Party, the Socialist Party, the Social Democratic Party, and then a neoconservative party.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JebSanderson View Post
    Yeah, there's the Communist Party, the Socialist Party, the Social Democratic Party, and then a neoconservative party.
    So there's the Communist party and the other 'Communist Lite' parties. I understand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Coulter View Post
    So there's the Communist party and the other 'Communist Lite' parties. I understand.
    Pretty much. There's the rare exception to the rule like UKIP in Britain though. Switzerland also has some good conservative parties.

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    Honestly, I believe that Hollande will win which will then effect the Euro and ultimately the dollar if it creates another crisis; the average
    French voter is voting for Hollande just like Americans voting for Obama in 2008 if that makes sense.

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...f160834D67.DTL
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    nothing is going to get better. It's not." - Dr. Seuss, from The Lorax

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Coulter View Post
    It's their country! Why should they not be allowed to protect their borders?
    Who's stopping them? Turns out that 80% of French have no problem with minorities though. So they're voting it OK.

    The FRENCH are the only thing special about France, once all the European nations are homognized per NWO edict, then what?
    Some might argue the French aren't that special.

    Some might call that genocide.
    Some might. But that would be dumb. Sex between people of different races isn't genocide.
    Ron Paul: "For those who have asked, I freely confess that Jesus Christ is my personal Savior, and that I seek His guidance in all that I do."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowlesy View Post
    Are you saying Marine Le Pen is all those things? Just curious.
    Probably. Her dad was and she's following in his footsteps.
    Ron Paul: "For those who have asked, I freely confess that Jesus Christ is my personal Savior, and that I seek His guidance in all that I do."

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackTerrel View Post
    Probably. Her dad was and she's following in his footsteps.
    Oh okay. I thought maybe you had actual evidence of it. Pure speculation is fine. Thanks.
    "Your mother's dead, before long I'll be dead, and you...and your brother and your sister and all of her children, all of us dead, all of us..rotting in the ground. It's the family name that lives on. It's all that lives on. Not your personal glory, not your honor, but family." - Tywin Lannister


  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowlesy View Post
    Oh okay. I thought maybe you had actual evidence of it. Pure speculation is fine. Thanks.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ccupation.html

    The daughter of Jean-Marie Le Pen, the outgoing leader of the National Front, told a rally that ten to fifteen places in France where Muslims worshipped in the streets were occupied territory.

    "For those who want to talk a lot about World War II, if it's about occupation, then we could also talk about it (Muslim prayers in the streets), because that is occupation of territory," she said at the gathering in Lyon.

    "It is an occupation of sections of the territory, of districts in which religious laws apply. It's an occupation," she said at the rally that was part of her bid to take the party leadership when her father steps down in January.

    "There are of course no tanks, there are no soldiers, but it is nevertheless an occupation and it weighs heavily on local residents," the 42-year-old noted.
    Ron Paul: "For those who have asked, I freely confess that Jesus Christ is my personal Savior, and that I seek His guidance in all that I do."

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    What I can gather from reading about this woman is that her and her father both do/did not like anyone who isn't French. Her dad even complained that their soccer team had black people on it and called them "not French". Not someone I'd vote for.

  22. #21

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    I have no clue about French politics...only that some people call Ron Paul a bigot and a racist for his views which couldn't be further from the truth.

    These are key words used to shut down rational debate. Prove it or quit making accusations.
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  23. #22

    Default French Presidential Race: Francois Hollande Edges Sarkozy in French Vote, Le Pen Surges

    DELETE
    Last edited by HOLLYWOOD; 04-23-2012 at 02:11 PM.
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    If Sarkozy doesn't win, the socialists will take back the Presidency. Not a Sarkozy fan, but I'm pretty sure the hard left isn't better in any sense of the word.

    Hollande promises less drastic spending cuts and wants higher taxes on the wealthy to fund state-aided job creation, in particular a 75-percent tax rate on income above 1 million euros ($1.32 million).
    .[QUOTE]"Every great new thought was opposed. Every great new invention was denounced. The first motor was considered foolish. The airplane was considered impossible. The power loom was considered vicious. Anesthesia was considered sinful. But the men of unborrowed vision went ahead. They fought, they suffered and they paid. But they won." - Ayn Rand, The Fountainhead[/QUOTE]
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  25. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackTerrel View Post
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ccupation.html

    The daughter of Jean-Marie Le Pen, the outgoing leader of the National Front, told a rally that ten to fifteen places in France where Muslims worshipped in the streets were occupied territory.

    "For those who want to talk a lot about World War II, if it's about occupation, then we could also talk about it (Muslim prayers in the streets), because that is occupation of territory," she said at the gathering in Lyon.

    "It is an occupation of sections of the territory, of districts in which religious laws apply. It's an occupation," she said at the rally that was part of her bid to take the party leadership when her father steps down in January.

    "There are of course no tanks, there are no soldiers, but it is nevertheless an occupation and it weighs heavily on local residents," the 42-year-old noted.
    Wouldn't that potentially make her a philo-semite in contrast to your portrayal? If you would cast her aside because she has issues with mass muslim immigration, I think that's fine, but I also think has a lot bigger problems like their unmanageable welfare state. Her father certainly has says some nasty things, but then again, he's not running for President nor is he the head of the party.

    This sounds an awful lot like guilt-by-association which someone else has been bearing throughout his campaign.
    "Your mother's dead, before long I'll be dead, and you...and your brother and your sister and all of her children, all of us dead, all of us..rotting in the ground. It's the family name that lives on. It's all that lives on. Not your personal glory, not your honor, but family." - Tywin Lannister


  26. #25

    Default French Presidential Race: Francois Hollande Edges Sarkozy in French Vote, Le Pen Surges

    Didn't Jean-Marie Le Pen have a scheduled meeting with Ron Paul and Ron cancelled at the last moment? Anyone is better than the killing Fascist/Globalist Nicholas Sarkozy? I think so

    Hollande Edges Sarkozy in French Vote, Jean-Marie Le Pen Surges
    Published: Sunday, 22 Apr 2012 |

    Far-rightist Marine Le Pen threw France's presidential race wide open on Sunday by polling nearly 19 percent in the first round - votes that may tip a runoff between Socialist favorite Francois Hollande and conservative President Nicolas Sarkozy.


    French Socialist Party's (PS) Francois Hollande led Sarkozy after the first round of voting.


    Hollande led Sarkozy by 28.2 percent to 27.0 percent with more than four fifths of votes counted, the Interior Ministry said, meaning the two will meet head-to-head in a decider on May 6 that may be closer than pundits had been expected.Le Pen's record score of 18.6 percent was the sensation of the night, beating her father's 2002 result and outpolling hard leftist Jean-Luc Melenchon in fourth place on 10.9 percent. Centrist Francois Bayrou finished fifth on 9.2 percent.

    Hollande, 57, told cheering supporters he was best placed to lead France towards change and declared: "My final duty, and I know I'm being watched from beyond our borders, is to put Europe back on the path of growth and employment."

    Sarkozy, who has led the world's fifth largest economy for five years, responded defiantly to his setback - the first time in the 54-year history of the present electoral system that a sitting president seeking re-election had been beaten into second place in the first round.
    In a rousing speech, he challenged the Socialist to three television debates over the next two weeks instead of the customary one, and vowed in response to Le Pen's surge to tighten border controls, stop factories leaving France, make work pay and defend law and order.
    Two opinion polls taken during Sunday's voting by the IPSOS and Ifop institutes suggested the Socialist would beat the incumbent by 54 to 46 percent in the second round. But much yet depends on how each appeals to supporters of Le Pen and others.

    "Sarkozy is going to be torn between campaigning in the middle ground and campaigning on the right. He'll have to reach out to the right between the rounds and so he'll lose the centre," said Stephane Rozes of the CAP think-tank.

    http://www.euronews.com/2012/04/23/w...t-is-thrilled/

    Le Pen, who took over the anti-immigration National Front in 2011, wants jobs reserved for French nationals at a time when jobless claims are at a 12-year high. She also wants France to abandon the euro currency and restore monetary policy to Paris.

    "This first round is the start of a vast gathering of right-wing patriots," she told cheering supporters at her campaign headquarters, without endorsing either finalist and slamming Sarkozy. "Nothing will ever be the same again."
    Le Pen's unexpectedly high score reflected a surge in anti-establishment populist parties in many euro zone countries from the Netherlands to Greece as austerity and the debt crisis bite.

    Jean-Marie Le Pen, 83, visibly elated at his daughter's result, said the National Front would now focus on winning seats in June parliamentary elections.

    The IPSOS survey suggested 60 percent of Le Pen's voters would back Sarkozy in the second round, while Ifop put the proportion at 48 percent, with one in five voting for Hollande. Le Pen said she would give her view on the second round in a speech at a May Day rally in Paris a week on Tuesday.


    Nothing in Bag
    Sarkozy's closest supporters insisted he still had a fighting chance now that the president is facing a single challenger instead of nine in the first round.

    "Nothing is in the bag yet," said Foreign Minister Alain Juppe.

    The elder Le Pen's 16.9 percent score in the 2002 first round caused a political earthquake, knocking then Socialist Prime Minister Lionel Jospin out of the runoff and forcing left-wing voters to rally behind conservative Jacques Chirac.

    Sarkozy, also 57, has painted himself as the safest pair of hands to lead France and the euro zone in turbulent times, but Sunday's vote appeared to be a strong rejection of his flashy style as well as his economic record.<br>
    If Hollande wins, joining a small minority of left-wing governments in Europe, he has promised to renegotiate a European budget discipline treaty signed by Sarkozy. That could presage tension with German Chancellor Angela Merkel, who made the pact a condition for further assistance to troubled euro zone states

    The prospect of friction is causing some concern in financial markets, as is Hollande's focus on tax rises over austerity at a time when sluggish growth is threatening France's ability to meet deficit-cutting goals.

    France's sickly growth, along with its stubbornly high unemployment, are major factors hampering Sarkozy's battle to win a second term, despite an energetic campaign against the blander but more popular Hollande.<br>
    Melenchon, whose clench-fisted call for an anti-capitalist revolution made him the most colourful figure on the campaign trail, appealed to left-wing voters to make sure Sarkozy is ousted in two weeks' time by voting for Hollande.<br>
    "I call on you to come out on May 6 and beat Sarkozy without asking for anything in exchange. I urge you: don't drag your heels, mobilise as though it were me you were sending to victory in the presidential election," he said.<br>
    Pressed on television to come out and endorse Hollande by name, Melenchon said: "We must use the only space on the ballot available. Is there anyone else? I want to beat Sarkozy."

    The Socialist also won the endorsement of Greens candidate Eva Joly, who scored 2.2 percent.<br>
    If Sarkozy loses, he would be the eleventh euro zone leader to be swept out since the start of the bloc's debt crisis in late 2009 and the first French president to lose a re-election bid in more than 30 years. A deep dislike of his personal style, seen as arrogant and vulgar, drove many to vote against him.

    "France needs a radical change of direction, mainly on the economy," said Jean-Noel Harvet, a public sector worker voting earlier on Sunday in the northern town of Cambrai.

    Hollande promises less drastic spending cuts and wants higher taxes on the wealthy to fund state-aided job creation, in particular a 75-percent tax rate on income above 1 million euros ($1.32 million).

    If he wins, he would be the first left-wing leader since Francois Mitterrand, who beat incumbent Valery Giscard-d'Estaing in 1981 and ruled until 1995.
    Turnout ended up at a strong 81 percent.
    A swing to a Socialist government in France could alter the direction of Europe at a time when worries are resurfacing over the euro zone debt crisis and in particular over France's strained public finances, which already triggered a downgrade of Paris's triple-A credit rating by Standard &amp; Poors in January.
    Sarkozy has played up his credibility as an economic steward after he helped steer the euro zone through the worst of its crisis last year. Hollande has blamed him for the parlous state of France's public finances and for the rating downgrade.
    Some investors see a risk that Hollande's focus on tax rises over spending cuts, his slower timetable for balancing the budget and his plan to raise taxation on the financial sector, could drive up French bond yields.
    However, many economists see both Hollande and Sarkozy being obliged to pursue fairly similar, fiscally tight, economic policies. Differences between the two on France's wider European and foreign policies are also seen as relatively limited.
    Last edited by HOLLYWOOD; 04-23-2012 at 02:12 PM.
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  27. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by teacherone View Post
    I have no clue about French politics...only that some people call Ron Paul a bigot and a racist for his views which couldn't be further from the truth.

    These are key words used to shut down rational debate. Prove it or quit making accusations.
    There is a difference between being the editor of a newsletter and saying things in public, on video, in front of people, to reporters, to supporters, etc.

  28. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by DerailingDaTrain View Post
    There is a difference between being the editor of a newsletter and saying things in public, on video, in front of people, to reporters, to supporters, etc.
    Like I said, I know nothing about her. Can you cite some of the things she's said in public?
    Those Who Do Not Move, Do Not Notice Their Chains.

  29. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackTerrel View Post
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ccupation.html

    The daughter of Jean-Marie Le Pen, the outgoing leader of the National Front, told a rally that ten to fifteen places in France where Muslims worshipped in the streets were occupied territory.

    "For those who want to talk a lot about World War II, if it's about occupation, then we could also talk about it (Muslim prayers in the streets), because that is occupation of territory," she said at the gathering in Lyon.

    "It is an occupation of sections of the territory, of districts in which religious laws apply. It's an occupation," she said at the rally that was part of her bid to take the party leadership when her father steps down in January.

    "There are of course no tanks, there are no soldiers, but it is nevertheless an occupation and it weighs heavily on local residents," the 42-year-old noted.
    This is supposed to be evidence of racism? When a group of people cross a border and enter a country illegally, then take over an area and set up their own laws, what else would you call it but occupation?

    France's immigration problem is not unlike our own. People come in from third-world countries looking for work and a better life, and companies hire them to do jobs under the table because they can pay cheap wages and pay no state benefits--increasing their profit. The state ends up having to subsidize a permanent underclass, as well as a class of citizens who cannot or will not work because of the downward wage pressure in the jobs taken by the immigrants.

    Add to this that the immigrants are unable to maintain the standards of education and language required for them to function in the society they are living in and a hugely increased crime rate, and you have a recipe for disaster. There are no easy solutions, and no putting the genie in the bottle.

  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by craezie View Post
    This is supposed to be evidence of racism? When a group of people cross a border and enter a country illegally, then take over an area and set up their own laws, what else would you call it but occupation?

    France's immigration problem is not unlike our own. People come in from third-world countries looking for work and a better life, and companies hire them to do jobs under the table because they can pay cheap wages and pay no state benefits--increasing their profit. The state ends up having to subsidize a permanent underclass, as well as a class of citizens who cannot or will not work because of the downward wage pressure in the jobs taken by the immigrants.

    Add to this that the immigrants are unable to maintain the standards of education and language required for them to function in the society they are living in and a hugely increased crime rate, and you have a recipe for disaster. There are no easy solutions, and no putting the genie in the bottle.
    She has big problems with legal immigration too.

    Also, nobody has "taken over" France.
    Last edited by DerailingDaTrain; 04-23-2012 at 02:53 PM.

  31. #30

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    If Hollande wins, (which will be likely; and he deserves to even though I disagree with his policies) then potentially the Euro can sink again with the addition parliamentary crisis in Netherlands which in all can create a shockwave across the world and torpedo our already limping economy. Just stating something that can be the end of the world in 2012.
    "Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot,
    nothing is going to get better. It's not." - Dr. Seuss, from The Lorax

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