Did Ron Paul Convince you on Abortion?

[philipped]

He actually did not. It took my best friend telling me he chose life and his partner did not. And my other friend giving birth to his first daughter this morning. I was only looking at it conceptually when Ron Paul spoke of it, it effected me a lot more as I began to put myself in my friends shoes for some reason. Looking at how it effected my friend who currently isn't a father, and the one who became one today is what moved me away from being completely for abortion.

[jmdrake]

Consider a Jehova's witness on my yard. He has a right to life. I have a right to property. The reasonable thing to do is to kick the JW off my property if I dont want him there. I don't have a right to shoot him in order to get him off my property. If he refuses to leave peacefully, then I have the right to shoot him in order to make him leave, even though he has a right to life. We are balancing the rights of the two people. We apply a reasonableness standard based on the circumstances.

If I had invited the JW to my property and promised his father he could stay there for 9 months, then that changes the circumstances. I voluntarily waived certain rights to my property. Now it is not only unreasonable to ask the JW to leave, it is certainly also more unreasonable to shoot him if he doesnt comply.

EDIT: Now consider again the JW in my yard with no 9 month agreement. I don't have to decide, right as soon as the JW comes on my property, whether or not I want to hear more from him. I can wait and let him say a few words, or I can let him talk to me for hours, and I can still have the right to say GTFO. And then, if he doesn't comply, his right to life becomes moot.

Not a good analogy as the JW voluntarily got on your property and could leave without violence. Here is a correct analogy.

You own a boat. You are in middle of the ocean. It's a 9 month journey until you get to port. There are no life rafts on your boat. There are two people on your boat that you decide you no longer want on. One is someone you invited on. The other was kidnapped by someone else and forced on your boat. Do you have more of a right to put the one who was kidnapped and forced on your boat off in the middle of the ocean to certain death than the one you invited on your boat?

[jmdrake]

He actually did not. It took my best friend telling me he chose life and his partner did not. And my other friend giving birth to his first daughter this morning. I was only looking at it conceptually when Ron Paul spoke of it, it effected me a lot more as I began to put myself in my friends shoes for some reason. Looking at how it effected my friend who currently isn't a father, and the one who became one today is what moved me away from being completely for abortion.

Very moving story. Thank you for sharing.

[amartin315]

Not a good analogy as the JW voluntarily got on your property and could leave without violence. Here is a correct analogy.

You own a boat. You are in middle of the ocean. It's a 9 month journey until you get to port. There are no life rafts on your boat. There are two people on your boat that you decide you no longer want on. One is someone you invited on. The other was kidnapped by someone else and forced on your boat. Do you have more of a right to put the one who was kidnapped and forced on your boat off in the middle of the ocean to certain death than the one you invited on your boat?

Yes

[dannno]

No, but he made the position sound a lot more reasonable.

However I don't see any difference between a very early term abortion and pulling the fire alarm at a honey moon retreat.

[jmdrake]

Yes

You might feel that way, but any court of law would convict you of murder just the same. Not so if you threw the kidnapper himself overboard.

[jmdrake]

No, but he made the position sound a lot more reasonable.

However I don't see any difference between a very early term abortion and pulling the fire alarm at a honey moon retreat.

And that's why the morning after pill argument is so compelling. Most likely at this point we there hasn't even been fertilization. It is irresponsible for a woman who might not want to carry a rapists baby to say "Well....let me think about this for 5 months and get back with you."

[amartin315]

You might feel that way, but any court of law would convict you of murder just the same. Not so if you threw the kidnapper himself overboard.

One certainly has less of a right than the other to the ship captain's food and his toilet for the next 9 month voyage.

[24marinematt]

I believe late term abortions should absolutely be illegal, but I wouldn't call myself "pro-life". I'll just leave it at that.

[Nirvikalpa]

No. My own personal experience in medicine and emergency services dealing with the underserved and uninsured flipped me from being vehemently pro-life to pro-choice.

I can only control my own choices and what I do with my own body. I don't feel it's within my right to impose my morality on anybody, and I want politics and politicians as far from the reproductive rights spectrum as they can possibly get.

[Terry1]

Ron Paul isn't pro abortion--he's anti-government sanctioned/funded by the taxpayers for abortion. He believes in the right for people kill their unborn, but at their own peril, cost and consequence and not others who don't believe in it. Let them answer to God and let God be their only judge and jury.