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Thread: Game of Thrones Books and TV Show

  1. #181
    Covering just the things recently discussed...

    1. I laughed out loud when they were burning people. I couldn't help it. I immediately thought of all the "Stannis really never hurt anyone" people on here lol

    2. I don't think Shae necessarily has to be gone. If Tywin wants you brought to him before the wedding, you will be brought to him. I have the slightest little inkling that Bronn might have lied to Tyrion about that for the right price. Tyrion on the show has a nasty habit of not really showing a lot of ongoing appreciation to the people who keep him alive.

    3. During the wedding, I'm wondering if anyone else who's read the books noticed the performers being different. Yes, they were still dwarves (which helped set it up as an insult), but I didn't see a lady dwarf as far as I'm aware. Honestly, this is cause for celebration, as it might mean that one of the most obnoxious parts of the recent book might go missing entirely. HOORAY!

    4. I loved the fact that, if you HAVEN'T read the books, there are a lot of suspects and people with opportunity and motivation. Pycelle gets humiliated and heads off to the kitchens. No one with any taste is amused by Joffrey's behavior. The guests from Sunspear might be making a point (killing Lannisters is their second favorite thing, obviously). The bride looks a bit green throughout the ceremony and we have her earlier comment about Joffrey decking her out in sparrows' skulls. Sansa and Tyrion both have excellent cause to want the little golden-headed brat dead. Pretty much anyone but Cersei and Jaime could have killed him. Even Lord Tywin himself looks a bit put out by the stupidity his grandson shows at the breakfast.

    5. This hasn't been mentioned yet, but damn I have to. I do hate the fact they've made Oberyn interesting. In the books I hated the Dornish side stories and the plot contrivance he's a part of. Now I'm afraid he'll only be in it a few episodes.



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  3. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by MelissaWV View Post
    1. I laughed out loud when they were burning people. I couldn't help it. I immediately thought of all the "Stannis really never hurt anyone" people on here lol
    I don't recall anyone ever saying "Stannis never really hurt anyone" (last I heard, chopping off someone's fingertips or testicles hurts pretty bad - and so does being burned alive). For my part, I have only argued that in all the books (and in the TV series until this most recent episode), Stannis was no worse than anyone else in this regard. Like Eddard and Robb Stark, he always had some at-least-minimally defensible reason for "hurting" people (castrating rapists, executing traitors, etc.). That is still true in the books so far - but no longer in the TV show, given the most recent episode ...

    I don't particularly like Stannis, myself. But I can see why some do. He's an implacably dour and unsympathetic character - but he's not a villain, either. (I rather suspect he's gong to end up dying a grim & tragically heroic - though possibly useless - death in defense of the world against the Others ...)

    Quote Originally Posted by MelissaWV View Post
    2. I don't think Shae necessarily has to be gone. If Tywin wants you brought to him before the wedding, you will be brought to him. I have the slightest little inkling that Bronn might have lied to Tyrion about that for the right price. Tyrion on the show has a nasty habit of not really showing a lot of ongoing appreciation to the people who keep him alive.
    I'm pretty sure Shea will be brought back (for reasons that those who have read the books will know). My problem is that they seem to be monkeying with the fundamental nature of Tyrion's relationship with Shea - or rather, of Shea's relationship with Tyrion. They seem to be turning her from a self-seeking climber into "a woman scorned" - which (to me, at least) would reduce the pathos of one of the major aspects of Tyrion's character (it would make it harder to sympathize with Tyrion when he does a certain thing, for example, and it would also significantly reduce the contrast between Shea and Tysha - the Tysha incident, of course, being one of the major formative experiences of Tyrion's character, and one which has some major upcoming consequences). Shea could still turn out to have been motivated by other, baser concerns than those of a "jilted lover" - but the gut-wrenching soul-crushing that Tyrion will experience while "in the dock" will still have been blunted.
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 04-15-2014 at 04:47 AM.

  4. #183
    Anyone have a reliable site for viewing season 3? Or even the current season? The fiancee got into the show during a free preview weekend, and only made it through season 2.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul
    Perhaps the most important lesson from Obamacare is that while liberty is lost incrementally, it cannot be regained incrementally. The federal leviathan continues its steady growth; sometimes boldly and sometimes quietly. Obamacare is just the latest example, but make no mistake: the statists are winning. So advocates of liberty must reject incremental approaches and fight boldly for bedrock principles.
    The epitome of libertarian populism

  5. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Feeding the Abscess View Post
    Anyone have a reliable site for viewing season 3? Or even the current season? The fiancee got into the show during a free preview weekend, and only made it through season 2.
    I've been using couchtuner.eu



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  7. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    I've been using couchtuner.eu
    Malware free and all that jazz?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul
    Perhaps the most important lesson from Obamacare is that while liberty is lost incrementally, it cannot be regained incrementally. The federal leviathan continues its steady growth; sometimes boldly and sometimes quietly. Obamacare is just the latest example, but make no mistake: the statists are winning. So advocates of liberty must reject incremental approaches and fight boldly for bedrock principles.
    The epitome of libertarian populism

  8. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Feeding the Abscess View Post
    Malware free and all that jazz?
    I've never had any problem with it (using Firefox with NoScript under Linux). I use the sockshare stream if one is available, and the youwatch stream if there isn't one for sockshare. Pop-up windows are the only things I've had to deal with with for either of those two. And if you follow the blue link inside the sockshare viewer, it will take you to the page at sockshare for the stream where you can download the file, too.
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 04-16-2014 at 03:04 AM.

  9. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    I've never had any problem with it (using Firefox with NoScript under Linux). I use the sockshare stream if one is available, and the youwatch stream if there isn't one for sockshare. Pop-up windows are the only things I've had to deal with with for either of those two. And if you follow the blue link inside the sockshare viewer, it will take you to the page at sockshare for the stream where you can download the file, too.
    Excellent! Thanks dogg
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul
    Perhaps the most important lesson from Obamacare is that while liberty is lost incrementally, it cannot be regained incrementally. The federal leviathan continues its steady growth; sometimes boldly and sometimes quietly. Obamacare is just the latest example, but make no mistake: the statists are winning. So advocates of liberty must reject incremental approaches and fight boldly for bedrock principles.
    The epitome of libertarian populism

  10. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    OK, in yesterday's episode (S4E2) they did what you describe (burning "infidels"). That was definitely ill-done.

    They changed it from the books, though. Alester Florent (the man who was speaking when they lit the stake) was the King's Hand before Davos. In the books, he was condemned for treason and would have been executed anyway. But they don't mention that in the show - they portray it as a punishment for being an "infidel" ...

    Also with respect to this episode: I really don't like what they did with the Tyrion & Shea thing. That wasn't in the books, either - and it really messes with at least one aspect of the future dynamics of that whole situation. (I can't say more without giving away some major spoilers, though.)
    Wasn't Florent going to hand over Stannis' daughter, Shireen, as leverage?

    The show has taken the basics of Stannis, but slightly changed things in order to put him into the worst light possible. I was particularly disappointed that the show skipped "two is not three" and that it appeared that Melisandre made the decision to go to the wall and to pardon Davos. With the infidel burnings, it's almost an outright character assassination.
    "I shall bring justice to Westeros. Every man shall reap what he has sown, from the highest lord to the lowest gutter rat. They have made my kingdom bleed, and I do not forget that."
    -Stannis Baratheon

  11. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    I don't particularly like Stannis, myself. But I can see why some do. He's an implacably dour and unsympathetic character - but he's not a villain, either. (I rather suspect he's gong to end up dying a grim & tragically heroic - though possibly useless - death in defense of the world against the Others ...)
    I view Stannis as an anti-villain. He has all of the tropes of the Dark Lord archetype (sinister castle, flaming sword, sorceress henchman, utilizes dark magic, deformed daughter, etc., etc., etc.) but isn't evil. It seems that he ends up with more moral dilemmas than many other characters and it weighs heavily upon him. Melisandre is the cartoon devil on his shoulder, while Davos is the cartoon angel on his shoulder.
    "I shall bring justice to Westeros. Every man shall reap what he has sown, from the highest lord to the lowest gutter rat. They have made my kingdom bleed, and I do not forget that."
    -Stannis Baratheon

  12. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by 2young2vote View Post
    Also, I don't get the love for Stannis. He has already proven to be an incompetent king who can easily be manipulated. He lacks honor as proven by his commitment to killing innocent people for the sake of his kingship - not for the realm. And he lacks any kind of pity for the people who have sacrificed their lives to help him achieve his goals. He is not honorable, he is not lawful, he is not moral, he is not smart, he has no integrity, and he lacks any kind of leadership capabilities at all. He'd be your typical power hungry Lord if not for Melisandere. He is simply her mask.
    Stannis isn't incompetent; in fact, he is the only King other than Robb Stark to actually do anything productive. In the book, even Tywin Lannister was concerned about what Stannis would do after King Robert's death. The problem with Stannis is that Melisandre and her religion has been both a blessing and a curse. I don't know if he's easily manipulated, but he values honest counsel, which is why Davos, a dirty peasant no less, had been gradually elevated to be his Hand.

    Regarding his personality, I am of the opinion that he was written to be a character with Asperger's or some degree of autism. He is said to never laugh or smile, has no friends, knows the troop strength of every house in Westeros, is said to have the personality of a lobster, and simply has no personal connections with anyone other than perhaps Davos. The only thing he has is his black and white perception of justice to keep him company.
    "I shall bring justice to Westeros. Every man shall reap what he has sown, from the highest lord to the lowest gutter rat. They have made my kingdom bleed, and I do not forget that."
    -Stannis Baratheon

  13. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    I've been using couchtuner.eu
    IOU a rep... I only just watched S4E1 and the only DL I could find was Russian subtitled, so I can't tell what they were saying when speaking Valyrian.
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  14. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm View Post
    Wasn't Florent going to hand over Stannis' daughter, Shireen, as leverage?
    Yes. He was trying to come to terms and make a deal with the Lannisters without the knowledge, authority or consent of Stannis.

    The show has taken the basics of Stannis, but slightly changed things in order to put him into the worst light possible. I was particularly disappointed that the show skipped "two is not three" and that it appeared that Melisandre made the decision to go to the wall and to pardon Davos. With the infidel burnings, it's almost an outright character assassination.
    I agree. And I had forgotten about the "two is not three" thing - further evidence that Stannis is not Melisandre's puppet.
    He is not her pawn. He keeps Melisandre around and heeds her because she has been very useful to him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm View Post
    I view Stannis as an anti-villain. He has all of the tropes of the Dark Lord archetype (sinister castle, flaming sword, sorceress henchman, utilizes dark magic, deformed daughter, etc., etc., etc.) but isn't evil. It seems that he ends up with more moral dilemmas than many other characters and it weighs heavily upon him. Melisandre is the cartoon devil on his shoulder, while Davos is the cartoon angel on his shoulder.
    That is an excellent summation - especially the cartoon angel/devil metaphor.

    And I think you can categorize Melisandre as an "anti-villain" too. I don't think she is evil - she really does want to oppose and defeat the Others. But I agree with Maester Aemon - I think she is wrong about Stannis being "Azor Ahai reborn." But she genuinely believes that he is, and I anticipate tragedy for Stannis as the result of her error ...



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  16. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Feeding the Abscess View Post
    Excellent! Thanks dogg
    No problem!

    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    IOU a rep... I only just watched S4E1 and the only DL I could find was Russian subtitled, so I can't tell what they were saying when speaking Valyrian.
    I should also note that couchtuner.eu usually has streams available for a show just a few hours after it airs. Unfortunately, the sockshare streams don't always stick around for long (the sockshare stream for S4E1 is already dead). The youwatch streams have good persistence (going all the way back to S1E1 - there are only a few episodes for which there is no youwatch stream). Anyone who can't (or doesn't want) to pass through to the sockshare page and download the file from there can use the DownloadHelper plug-in for Firefox. It works for the sockshare and youwatch streams at couchtuner.eu (and probably the others as well), though video resolutions may vary from one file to another.

    EDIT: The ishared streams seems to be the best ones for downloading with DownloadHelper. I get some "download failed" errors, but when it works, it's really fast compared to the others (5 minutes or less per file - I keep the stream playing in while I'm downloading, and it's sometimes finished before the opening/title credits are over). And the resolution is good, too (the files are 200+ MB each). The files via youwatch streams are smaller (about 120 MB each or so) but lower resolution.
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 04-17-2014 at 01:35 PM.

  17. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    I agree. And I had forgotten about the "two is not three" thing - further evidence that Stannis is not Melisandre's puppet.
    He is not her pawn. He keeps Melisandre around and heeds her because she has been very useful to him.
    I really liked the Winds of Winter sample chapter, which depicted Stannis at his sharpest and showed why he is indeed a formidable leader. In a mere ten pages or so, he takes care of business like a boss and may be back in the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    And I think you can categorize Melisandre as an "anti-villain" too. I don't think she is evil - she really does want to oppose and defeat the Others. But I agree with Maester Aemon - I think she is wrong about Stannis being "Azor Ahai reborn." But she genuinely believes that he is, and I anticipate tragedy for Stannis as the result of her error ...
    I agree that Melisandre isn't really evil, but she certainly comes across as sinister. I also expect Stannis to die horribly, especially in his current location, but we'll see. Sometimes I think that Melisandre will end up burning Stannis, since he too has king's blood...
    "I shall bring justice to Westeros. Every man shall reap what he has sown, from the highest lord to the lowest gutter rat. They have made my kingdom bleed, and I do not forget that."
    -Stannis Baratheon

  18. #195
    Man all you book people turned this thread into a giant spoiler

  19. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm View Post
    I really liked the Winds of Winter sample chapter, which depicted Stannis at his sharpest and showed why he is indeed a formidable leader. In a mere ten pages or so, he takes care of business like a boss and may be back in the game.
    That's from the Theon preview chapter, right? I've read that one, and the ones for Arya and Tyrion.
    There's supposed to be another for Arianne Martell, but I haven't read it yet. Do you know of any others?

    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm View Post
    I agree that Melisandre isn't really evil, but she certainly comes across as sinister. I also expect Stannis to die horribly, especially in his current location, but we'll see. Sometimes I think that Melisandre will end up burning Stannis, since he too has king's blood...
    It's interesting that Stannis is one of the very few major characters who hasn't had any "point of view" chapters of his own. (Even Melisandre has had a few.) Robb Stark never had one, either. Nor did Joffrey - or Robert before him. Or [spoiler omitted]. Hmmmm ... "kings who eventually end up dead" and "not having a POV chapter" seem to to have a significantly high degree of correlation ...

  20. #197
    G R R M is anti-monarchy IMO. I think and hope this series will wind up being something libertarians can claim as pro-freedom fiction. But I could be totally wrong.

  21. #198
    I'm really not understanding all the Stannis defense here.
    The show's character as displayed is a tool for the practitioners of dark magics.

    Spoiler alert.

    He spawned a freaking shadow beast, out from a sorceress's vagina.
    To kill.

    NO! No. Knocking up your cult murder lusting witch wife, with assassin demons
    from out of her voodoowomb, in order to kill your family is not cricket.

    That act makes you evil. Cracking open the realms of Tartarus, for
    power, makes you a shade eviler than the other 40 people vying for power the
    old fashion tyrannical way.

    Throwing your loyal second in command in a dungeon, who even went so far for you as to sort of midwife your desired death imp baby, as well as lead your failed assault, in which he lost his son for you, all for saying "hey that's pretty messed up you know, might want to reconsider all that" and then mulling over sacrificing him for power,
    is vile.

    The dude is messed up.

    People talk about him being a dark lord archetype... I say any society in a magic containing universe, should particularly look down on that sort of stuff. Then, there will be noticeably fewer
    Lord Saurons/Sorcerers/That cult guy from the second Indiana Jones movie sort
    of folk running around the realm ruining everyone's pleasantries.

    Good.

    Those people mess things up entirely if you give them an inch.
    Conjuring their dark orc armies, and never ending winters, and killing all the unicorns and transforming
    into snakes and James Earl Joneses and whatnot. Forget that noise, it's overdone and you know where it's going.

    I guarantee, that some time like 9000 years ago in Westeros, back when people didn't care like they always should, there was some ice warlock all messing around with magics up at the north pole, casting their dark works on some fairies they'd sacrificed to Evil, and then boom there have it those Others/White Walker things summoned from their dark dangling sleeves.
    Last edited by Victor Grey; 04-23-2014 at 05:18 AM.

  22. #199
    Stannis is certainly my favorite character within the series. Part of it is because of his inverted "Dark Lord" trope and also because he is the most dour, bitter, stern, uncompromising character in the series. From the outset he was horribly outnumbered yet never yields in the face of his enemies - they will bend the knee or be destroyed!

    I would never argue that he is good, but I wouldn't view him as evil either. If anything, he is the epitome of the Dungeons & Dragons Lawful Neutral alignment (if you are familiar with such).

    Regarding the use of "dark magic," I do not think there has been any proof that it comes from an evil, "demonic" source (althought it may, for all we know).

    Regarding the "Dark Lord" trope, it should be noted that it's an inverted trope. Just as Jaime Lannister is an inverted "Knight in Shining Armor" (handsome, Captain of the King's Guard, finest swordsman in the land....but, he's slain a king, crippled a child, has sex with his sister, etc.). Stannis has all the trappings of a Mordred-style character, but isn't really evil. I'll repeat that he seems to have more moral dilemmas presented to him than the other characters, and he weighs his options heavily.

    Ultimately, I think he's a tragically heroic character, as he has the ability to be both a hero and a villain (incidentally, just as Stannis had stated that Davos was a hero and a smuggler. A good act doesn't wash out the bad, and the bad doesn't wash out the good).

    The show is pretty much a character assassination though, and presents the more villainous side rather than the balance from the books.
    Last edited by Philhelm; 04-23-2014 at 05:01 PM.
    "I shall bring justice to Westeros. Every man shall reap what he has sown, from the highest lord to the lowest gutter rat. They have made my kingdom bleed, and I do not forget that."
    -Stannis Baratheon

  23. #200
    The show basically makes him Mel's bitch when in the book he openly threatens her and values the counsel of Davos more. Renly stole his bannermen and they declared war on each other. He would have killed Stannis if he had the chance. Renly was an ass anyway. Either way, I'm looking forward to his Jaime-esque turnaround. A lot of people hated Jaime for what he did to Bran, but really all he was trying to do was rescue the reader/viewer from the boring-ass Bran storyline. Nothing wrong with that.
    ...but when the trumpets blew again and the knights charged, the name they cried was "Stannis! Stannis! STANNIS!"



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  25. #201
    Ah, Philhelm's defense of Stannis is refreshing. I really like that guy too for some reason, he's just one of my favorite characters on the show and I can't explain it. Well, other than the fact that he's the only challenger to the throne to honestly scare the living hell out of the Lannisters so far on the show, where they honestly thought the possibility of them dying by him was very real.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sister Miriam Godwinson View Post
    We Must Dissent.

  26. #202
    There must be a huge disconnect between Stannis in the book and Stannis in the show, because I am not feeling the love toward him based on what I have seen so far. Of course his character is lucky to get 10 minutes here and there before it switches back to something else. I do like the idea that the Lannisters feel threatened by him. The guy that plays Tywin is such a good actor..quietly menacing. BTW I fast forward through Jamie and Cersei's scenes...they creep me out.

  27. #203
    What really irritates a lot of book-reader Stannis fans is that he has a very dry, sarcastic wit in the books that has been completely absent from the show. He has some of the funniest lines in the books that get left out and the show just makes him look like an $#@! while they whitewash other fan-favorite characters. It's a shame too because Stephen Dillane is such a great actor. He played Thomas Jefferson on HBO's John Adams miniseries which I thought was great.
    ...but when the trumpets blew again and the knights charged, the name they cried was "Stannis! Stannis! STANNIS!"

  28. #204
    Eh, the only reason I like Stannis in the books is because Davos makes me like him. Davos is the guy that keeps Stannis in check. When Davos isn't around or doesn't get his way, Stannis is a dick.

  29. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Spikender View Post
    Ah, Philhelm's defense of Stannis is refreshing. I really like that guy too for some reason, he's just one of my favorite characters on the show and I can't explain it. Well, other than the fact that he's the only challenger to the throne to honestly scare the living hell out of the Lannisters so far on the show, where they honestly thought the possibility of them dying by him was very real.
    If I recall correctly, after Stannis' defeat at King's Landing, they discussed Stannis dismissively, but Tywin stated that "This is Stannis Baratheon. He will fight to the end and then some."
    "I shall bring justice to Westeros. Every man shall reap what he has sown, from the highest lord to the lowest gutter rat. They have made my kingdom bleed, and I do not forget that."
    -Stannis Baratheon

  30. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlybee View Post
    There must be a huge disconnect between Stannis in the book and Stannis in the show, because I am not feeling the love toward him based on what I have seen so far. Of course his character is lucky to get 10 minutes here and there before it switches back to something else. I do like the idea that the Lannisters feel threatened by him. The guy that plays Tywin is such a good actor..quietly menacing. BTW I fast forward through Jamie and Cersei's scenes...they creep me out.
    There were a lot of unnecessary changes made in the show which make Stannis appear more evil (or creepy) than he really is.

    The biggest offenders were:

    1. He only decides to allow Melisandre to sacrifice his bastard nephew (presumably for the greater good) after all three kings die (as proof of the power of king's blood), and even then he tells Melisandre that if she is wrong about the powerful ritual she is promising that she will "die by inches." On the show, Robb Stark dies and he's thoroughly convinced. On the book, after two of the king's die, he tells her that "two is not three."
    2. He never begged Melisandre for sex (hell, in the book it's left open as to whether Stannis truly knew about the "Shadow Baby."
    3. He never burned anyone for not worshipping R'hollor. He isn't even a religious fanatic and has only half-heartedly given lip service to R'hollor. Florent was executed because he was trying to negotiate a backdoor surrender to the Lannisters, and had intended to use Shireen as leverage. Since he receives pressure from Melisandre, his wife, and the Queen's Men (R'hollor fanatics within his army) to offer sacrifice to the Lord of Light, he decided to burn Florent for his crime rather than execute him normally.
    4. After it was discovered that Davos released the bastard nephew, Stannis did sentence him to die, but drew his sword with the intent of delivering the execution himself. Davos then informed him of the message from the Night's Watch and spared Davos. On the show, Davos is only spared at Melisandre's urging.
    5. His wife didn't keep stillborn babies in jars. I couldn't imagine book Stannis even allowing something like that.
    6. On the book, he has some of the funniest lines. He never laughs or smiles, but he certainly has a dry sense of humor. He even has pet names for other characters, such as "Lord Too Fat to Sit on a Horse." Hell, they couldn't even have him say that weddings appear to be more dangerous than battles after Joffrey died.
    "I shall bring justice to Westeros. Every man shall reap what he has sown, from the highest lord to the lowest gutter rat. They have made my kingdom bleed, and I do not forget that."
    -Stannis Baratheon

  31. #207
    Can we please add spoiler taags to things BOOK related? Am a huge fan of the show, but can't even look in this thread as its filled with books stuff!

    OK, just realized this board doesn't have spoiler tags! ok, so I gotta be careful around here ...
    We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false. -- William Casey, CIA Director

    Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.-- Mark Twain

    When people like us-- the scum of society-- don't risk our lives when a rare chance comes our way, we become losers at that moment. So courage is the only thing we can rely on.-- Anchan
    Rick Simpson Hemp Oil

  32. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by squarepusher View Post
    Can we please add spoiler taags to things BOOK related? Am a huge fan of the show, but can't even look in this thread as its filled with books stuff!

    OK, just realized this board doesn't have spoiler tags! ok, so I gotta be careful around here ...
    Yea I'm afraid to read more than the first sentence of most posts in this thread. I'll start a new thread for us.



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  34. #209
    Bump for spoilers.
    Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
    --Albert J. Nock

  35. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucille View Post
    Bump for spoilers.
    No episode this weekend

    They've changed some major things in the series, or at least they seem major to me. I am wondering how these next few episodes will play out, and next season is just a giant collection of question marks. It's when most of us started skimming some chapters.

    I will admit I skimmed a lot of the Sunspear information (where Oberyn is from). If what they did with Oberyn is any indication, they may expand that entire side of things.
    Genuine, willful, aggressive ignorance is the one sure way to tick me off. I wish I could say you were trolling. I know better, and it's just sad.

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