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Thread: Secret service scandal...Not paying a whore in Colombia

  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by BamaAla View Post
    So they basically raped a vulnerable Colombian woman.
    No. How the hell did you come to that conclusion?



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  3. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by bluesc View Post
    No. How the hell did you come to that conclusion?
    A contract consists of a few parts: offer, acceptance, and consideration. In this case there was a breach of that contract, and considering the consideration that was offered and accepted was sex, it is tantamount to stealing sex which is called rape. Does that work for you?
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  4. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by BamaAla View Post
    A contract consists of a few parts: offer, acceptance, and consideration. In this case there was a breach of that contract, and considering the consideration that was offered and accepted was sex, it is tantamount to stealing sex which is called rape. Does that work for you?
    Not at all. It would just be theft. Even if consent is based on a premise, you can't just retract consent after the fact. If I could do that, I would be on top of the world right now.

    He stole from her, he should pay. He should not be charged for rape. That's ridiculous.

  5. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by bluesc View Post
    Not at all. It would just be theft. Even if consent is based on a premise, you can't just retract consent after the fact. If I could do that, I would be on top of the world right now.

    He stole from her, he should pay. He should not be charged for rape. That's ridiculous.
    Until and unless he does pay her (which I agree he should be forced to do,) he has stolen from her and what he has stolen is sex; stealing sex is rape. I think my logic works out just fine. Now, it isn't the "normal" forcible rape that calls for extreme punishment, but it's rape none-the-less.

    To the second part of my post, they should be fired for cause, but I'd bet a reassignment is all that follows.
    ROLL TIDE ROLL!!!
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  6. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by BamaAla View Post
    Until and unless he does pay her (which I agree he should be forced to do,) he has stolen from her and what he has stolen is sex; stealing sex is rape. I think my logic works out just fine. Now, it isn't the "normal" forcible rape that calls for extreme punishment, but it's rape none-the-less.

    To the second part of my post, they should be fired for cause, but I'd bet a reassignment is all that follows.
    noun
    1.
    the unlawful compelling of a person through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse.
    2.
    any act of sexual intercourse that is forced upon a person.
    3.
    statutory rape.
    4.
    an act of plunder, violent seizure, or abuse; despoliation; violation: the rape of the countryside.
    5.
    Archaic . the act of seizing and carrying off by force.
    verb (used with object)
    6.
    to force to have sexual intercourse.
    7.
    to plunder (a place); despoil.
    8.
    to seize, take, or carry off by force.
    It was consensual sex. If I offered to pay you to punch you in the face, you agreed, I punched you in the face and didn't pay, should I be charged with assault?

    Only if you lie.

  7. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by bluesc View Post
    It was consensual sex. If I offered to pay you to punch you in the face, you agreed, I punched you in the face and didn't pay, should I be charged with assault?

    Only if you lie.
    Yes, you should be until or unless you paid. The four walls of a contract are what constitute "consensual;" once outside of those walls, you are simply stealing whatever was agreed upon. You obviously get into questions of "clean hands" and what can and can't be contracted for, but in a purely abstract manner, violation of terms in this case is tantamount to rape in my eyes or battery in your hypothetical.
    ROLL TIDE ROLL!!!
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  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by BamaAla View Post
    Yes, you should be until or unless you paid. The four walls of a contract are what constitute "consensual;" once outside of those walls, you are simply stealing whatever was agreed upon. You obviously get into questions of "clean hands" and what can and can't be contracted for, but in a purely abstract manner, violation of terms in this case is tantamount to rape in my eyes or battery in your hypothetical.
    Opinion means nothing ... Please cite Columbian Law as it relates to your perspective.
    Let them keep thinking Ron Paul supporters are just a little army. Every military strategy manual in the world has examples of the bad things that happen to arrogant commanders of massive armies that underestimate the enemy. They all lose. We will win because the human heart, despite its detractors, is meant for truth and freedom.

  9. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by azxd View Post
    Opinion means nothing ... Please cite Columbian Law as it relates to your perspective.
    ^^
    irrelevant.
    Please entertain me,, What sort of Professional Security would allow this?
    Any part of it,, ??
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

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  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    ^^
    irrelevant.
    Please entertain me,, What sort of Professional Security would allow this?
    Any part of it,, ??
    A big assumption to think these people were acting professionally ... Their role-model-leader is no professional, either.
    In fact, the job is above his paygrade.

    But if you're gonna claim the girl was raped, you should understand the laws of the country in which it happened ... YES ?
    Therefore relevant.
    Last edited by azxd; 04-15-2012 at 09:17 AM.
    Let them keep thinking Ron Paul supporters are just a little army. Every military strategy manual in the world has examples of the bad things that happen to arrogant commanders of massive armies that underestimate the enemy. They all lose. We will win because the human heart, despite its detractors, is meant for truth and freedom.

  11. #40
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    And don't forget the huge assumption being made ... No where have I read that services had been rendered.
    Let them keep thinking Ron Paul supporters are just a little army. Every military strategy manual in the world has examples of the bad things that happen to arrogant commanders of massive armies that underestimate the enemy. They all lose. We will win because the human heart, despite its detractors, is meant for truth and freedom.

  12. #41

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    The more I think about it the more symbolic this incident is... we live in a world full of whores for the US government, none of whom are going to end up getting paid what was promised (that includes you, assigned NSA staffer to RPF).
    “If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”

    - SAMUEL ADAMS

  13. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by azxd View Post
    And don't forget the huge assumption being made ... No where have I read that services had been rendered.
    Again irrelevant.
    Whether there was a contract dispute/rape is irrelevant.
    Whether Obama is a good President is irrelevant.

    This was a massive Breach of Security. (first that it happened, and second that they allowed it to happen)
    If they were "set up",, that is even worse. (Security should not ALLOW itself to be set up)

    Highly unprofessional behavior. The whole bunch should be fired outright.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  14. #43
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    YES, fire them ... Because my sense of moral values is always superior, and I'm not afraid to use force to ensure that others comply to my system of values LOL
    Let them keep thinking Ron Paul supporters are just a little army. Every military strategy manual in the world has examples of the bad things that happen to arrogant commanders of massive armies that underestimate the enemy. They all lose. We will win because the human heart, despite its detractors, is meant for truth and freedom.

  15. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by azxd View Post
    YES, fire them ... Because my sense of moral values is always superior, and I'm not afraid to use force to ensure that others comply to my system of values LOL
    No,
    Fire them because they are total failures,, and a public embarrassment.

    My "Moral Values" have been questionable at times. I have done "security" work before.



    Failure is failure.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  16. #45
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    Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff gave Obama an earful on U.S. expansionist monetary policy that is sending a flood of funds into developing nations, forcing up currencies and hurting and other rich nations' competitiveness.
    "The way these countries, the most developed ones, especially in the euro region in the last year, have reacted to the crisis with monetary expansion has produced a monetary tsunami," she said, as Obama listened.
    "Obviously we have to take measures to defend ourselves. Note the word I chose - 'defend,' not 'protect,'" added Rousseff, whose government's actions to curb imports have been decried as protectionism by some in the region.
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...83D0E220120415
    Obama's form of polish will not fix this.
    Let them keep thinking Ron Paul supporters are just a little army. Every military strategy manual in the world has examples of the bad things that happen to arrogant commanders of massive armies that underestimate the enemy. They all lose. We will win because the human heart, despite its detractors, is meant for truth and freedom.

  17. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by azxd View Post
    Opinion means nothing ... Please cite Columbian Law as it relates to your perspective.
    Colombian law is irrelevant to whethe I would be rape or not. If Colombian law, for example, said its not rape if the man uses a condom, it would still be rape if the sex is not consensual, regardless of hat the law says.

    In the case of not paying a whore after sleeping with her, I'd say it's theft or breach of contract, but not rape.

  18. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by JebSanderson View Post
    Colombian law is irrelevant to whethe I would be rape or not. If Colombian law, for example, said its not rape if the man uses a condom, it would still be rape if the sex is not consensual, regardless of hat the law says.

    In the case of not paying a whore after sleeping with her, I'd say it's theft or breach of contract, but not rape.
    Opinion is not law
    Let them keep thinking Ron Paul supporters are just a little army. Every military strategy manual in the world has examples of the bad things that happen to arrogant commanders of massive armies that underestimate the enemy. They all lose. We will win because the human heart, despite its detractors, is meant for truth and freedom.

  19. #48

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    The US government is so evil and corrupt that what those jokers did can be likened to a fart in a tornado (excuse the cliché). If anything, I'm happy that the vaunted Secret Service was taken down a notch by this. It shows that they're not hiring quite the caliber of people they thought, but a bunch of undisciplined goofballs who can't even keep it in their pants while on assignment.

    Of course, I'm not happy if any prostitutes were cheated, but it looks like those responsible are going to get in some shit for it and possibly lose their jobs. Good.
    "Man lives freely only by his readiness to die." -- Mohandas K. Gandhi

    "Generally speaking, the way of the warrior is resolute acceptance of death." -- Miyamoto Musashi

  20. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by talkingpointes View Post
    You mean is it rape or stealing ?
    Breech of contract.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
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  21. #50
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    Wake up, people !!!
    akat says: April 15, 2012 at 9:45 am
    Patrick and other Infowar reporters. This Colombian hooker scandal is ‘interesting’ if mindless gossip news. If you check Reuters, there is some real news coming out of this conference that might be much more important to cover.

    First, Colombia is getting in line with most of the other latin OAS members in demanding that Cuba be included in future meetings. Cuba is a big part of this regions economy and these states are demanding that the want to be controllers from the U.S. are including Cuba in these discussions. Second, Argentina is demanding back their Falkland Island, which were looted from them by the imperialist British Empire, which is now trying to loot most of the middle east. Africa, and the U.S. Now this is news much more important, in the long run, than not wanting to pay the tab for your prostitute roomate. Focus guys!!!!!!!!
    truecolours says: April 14, 2012 at 12:24 pm
    The very fact that the corrupt NWO media is pouring gasoline all over this faux story is proof that it’s phoney. I’m leaning toward the theory that the Obama team has set up the SS in order to justify a new palace guard. I’ve also noticed that they all have their “comments” feature turned off. The professional propagandists want 100% control of this story! CBS is chief among them.
    Say it ain't so !!!
    Last edited by azxd; 04-15-2012 at 12:33 PM. Reason: Bolded
    Let them keep thinking Ron Paul supporters are just a little army. Every military strategy manual in the world has examples of the bad things that happen to arrogant commanders of massive armies that underestimate the enemy. They all lose. We will win because the human heart, despite its detractors, is meant for truth and freedom.

  22. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuerrillaXXI View Post
    The US government is so evil and corrupt that what those jokers did can be likened to a fart in a tornado (excuse the cliché). If anything, I'm happy that the vaunted Secret Service was taken down a notch by this. It shows that they're not hiring quite the caliber of people they thought, but a bunch of undisciplined goofballs who can't even keep it in their pants while on assignment.

    Of course, I'm not happy if any prostitutes were cheated, but it looks like those responsible are going to get in some shit for it and possibly lose their jobs. Good.
    See above.
    Let them keep thinking Ron Paul supporters are just a little army. Every military strategy manual in the world has examples of the bad things that happen to arrogant commanders of massive armies that underestimate the enemy. They all lose. We will win because the human heart, despite its detractors, is meant for truth and freedom.

  23. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by azxd View Post
    Opinion is not law
    And whether or not someone is raped does not depend on law, but rather on consent or lack thereof.

  24. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by bluesc View Post
    Not at all. It would just be theft. Even if consent is based on a premise, you can't just retract consent after the fact. If I could do that, I would be on top of the world right now.

    He stole from her, he should pay. He should not be charged for rape. That's ridiculous.
    People breech contracts all of the time. The remedy for breech of contract is a civil suit, not criminal prosecution. You typically don't breech contracts because you don't want someone suing you.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Eze 22:25 There's a conspiracy of prophets within her....

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.

  25. #54
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    You could be liable to criminal prosecution for fraud if you enter into a contract with no intent on fulfilling your obligations and deliberately misleading the other party.

  26. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by JebSanderson View Post
    Don't you usually pay a whore beforehand(job)?
    Yeah, but where did she put the money?
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  27. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by azxd View Post
    Victims of current leadership values.
    They're not victims of anything. Obama isn't their parent.
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  28. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by azxd View Post
    YES, fire them ... Because my sense of moral values is always superior, and I'm not afraid to use force to ensure that others comply to my system of values LOL
    The analysis he made has nothing to do with values. It has to do with security, which is their JOB. If they don't do their JOB right, they should get fired.

    Also, a boss can fire someone for any reason they want, be that morality or otherwise.
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  29. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by azxd View Post
    Opinion is not law
    So are you saying unconsentual sex is not rape? Sex by force is not rape?
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  30. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by azxd View Post
    Wake up, people !!!


    Say it ain't so !!!
    First of all,,
    I don't believe Obama is that smart. Perhaps a move by his handlers, but that changes NOTHING.

    They don't work for Obama or any other president. Their job is to provide security. (not to party on the public dime)

    These guys job is security,, and they can't even provide for their own security.

    Fire the bunch of losers.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  31. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulConventionWV View Post
    So are you saying unconsentual sex is not rape? Sex by force is not rape?
    Surely you are not reading that much into a simple statement.
    Let them keep thinking Ron Paul supporters are just a little army. Every military strategy manual in the world has examples of the bad things that happen to arrogant commanders of massive armies that underestimate the enemy. They all lose. We will win because the human heart, despite its detractors, is meant for truth and freedom.

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